Check out this article with Ice-T:

http://www.teenhollywood....817&c=1055

It's hilarious how casually he says... "yeah, I'm a hypocrite"... so I guess his lyrics don't really mean much...

Najee said:

I never said you despised Michael. I gathered from what you said before that you seem dissapointed that he is not what you wanted him to be. This is the case with almost everyone I know who's grown up with "The Black Michael Jackson". People who grew up knowing that Michael are sad and dissapointed to see what he has become today. I grew up knowing of Michael during the "Bad" era in the late 80's so his physical transformation had already started to take place, but by the time 1992 came around when he had gotten even lighter to the point where he had now looked like a white person-i'm not going to lie it did bother me at first.

Najee said:

Of course he isn't as popular as a recording artist as he used to be, but then again who is, not Prince, not MJ-no one from that time period is but he's still more popular as a recording artist then a lot of people his age. How many young people can name a Lionel Richie song? How many can name more than two songs from Aretha? Gladys? Someone who has had the type of impact on pop culture and music in general that Michael has had-it's just highly unlikely that his music will completley be forgotten anytime soon despite the horrible image he has.

And as for OJ, only he knows what really happened. I don't think it's fair to say that the black community supported him out of "desperation".

Najee said:

I too see MJ as a singer first and a dancer second. Michael's problem as an artist for the past 15+ years has been that he continues to lip synch. He has put all the focus on his dancing but that he is almost 50, he needs to start focusing on performing LIVE again. The whole grabbing the crotch and all of that has become so gimmicky that every Tom, Dick & Harry can do it (not as well of course but still). It's all just become too much of a gimmick. And There's just no reason why any artist should lip synch almost all of their show. If I wanted to hear that, I would put on one of his cd's. I do not go to concerts to hear an artist lip synch almost the entire time. Michael's voice is much too good for that lip synching business-I wish he would stop it,it has really damaged his credibility as an artist.
[Edited 4/8/07 20:26pm]

Najee said:

Maybe he didn't take his lyrics as seriously as his listeners did... I think the only reason he didn't become that person earlier was because he couldn't at the time... not because he thought there was something wrong with it... Or maybe he's changed his mind now, and thinks he was wrong in "tru to da game"...

My question is, was his earlier militancy just a gimmick to sell records? Did he actually live his life (outside of his lyrics, image etc...) according to what he wrote?

Cinnamon234 said:

That's not a case of "making someone what you want them to be." That implies that person never was or became such a person in your eyes. In Michael Jackson's case, he chose to help destroy his face and body because of an irrational dislike for being black. That, combined with stories of his child molestation cases and self-destructive childlike behavior, cannot be overlooked.

Cinnamon234 said:

You need to meet some of my younger relatives, who can name quite a few Lionel Richie-era Commodores, Aretha Franklin and Gladys Knight and The Pips songs. But that's beside the point -- they surely aren't feeling MJ, either. And almost all of it is because of the circus atmosphere called his life and also how they see his music as plastic as his face.

Cinnamon234 said:

At this point, MJ has been far more tabloid fodder than respected recording artist. I feel there is still respect paid for him for his talents, but I feel more people associate MJ nowadays with his antics than his music. Even when it comes to his music, it seems that he receives more critical praise for his "Off the Wall"-era stuff and his latter-day Jacksons music.

Cinnamon234 said:

Since you apparently were a youngster during that time and I was a newspaper journalist, I can say that O.J. Simpson received support from the Afro-American community out of "desperation." Race became the central piece of the murder trial, and more particularly how white society already branded him a murderer -- which grew into a symbolic battle of how the criminal justice system unjustly have treated Afro-American males over the centuries.
[Edited 4/8/07 21:00pm]

Does Michael Jackson have a skin ailment, or is that just a rumor?

coolcat said:

I would say that Ice Cube's image was consistent for most of his career; there was never that sense of falseness or insincerity.

coolcat said:

Why do Michael Jackson fans feel everything is an all-or-nothing situation? No one is debating whether he has vitiligo, but yet every zealot on this site wants to make that challenge, as if they're scrambling for a point.

I'm also sure that vitiligo has nothing to do with MJ sleeping in the same beds with children or trying to pass off white children as his biological offspring, in addition to running through millions of dollars while leveraging his assets to run through more money.
[Edited 4/8/07 20:48pm]

coolcat said:

Michael himself told Oprah during their live 1993 interview that he has vitiligo.

I see a lot of you call MJ a sell-out. I'm not going to disagree with you on that. Instead, I'm going to mention some artists you have yet to mention. First, how about the infamous group Milli Vanilli. If that's not selling out on what they did then I don't know what is. Second, Eazy-E is a sell out because he sold out his homeboys for a profit. And in turn, the greatest rap group of all time ins up breaking up. Finally, the original and queen of sell outs is Diana Ross. You know here history so I don't have to mention it. Peace!

Najee said:

I never said those things could or should be overlooked. Those allegations have damaged his career for good and it's a cloud that he will always have hanging over him. No argument from me about that. Michael is the one who made the choice to have too much plastic sugery, but it's not as cut and dry as it seems. He obviously has issues. I don't think it had anything to do with an "irrational dislike for black". I don't think that's it at all. No one really knows why he decided to do that to himself. Only Michael Jackson knows what it's like to be Michael Jackson so I think we should all stop trying to pretend we know what he's thinking or why he's done the things he has because none of us know.

Najee said:

Well that's a rare case. It's good that you have relatives who appreciate people like Aretha, Lionel and Gladys but your situation does not speak for everybody. In my family nobody as far as younger relatives go knows anything about Gladys or Lionel, they know some Aretha and that's it but most of them do like at least a few song from Michael. Anyway, the point is that a lot more young people know MJ's music then they do Aretha, Gladys or Lionel and that's a fact so that comparison is laughable really because I hear MJ's music anytime I go to parties or clubs. People know him for all the wrong things these days & trust me I get it that many see him as a joke, but unlike all those artists you mentioned before, most of them do know of his music.

Najee said:

Again, who is denying these things? I haven't been living under a rock for the past 15 years you know. I know what people think of him and I am certainly aware that it is personal life more than his music that has kept him in the headlines for the past 15 years.

Najee said:

I remember the OJ case very well actually, I'm not that young now lol. and yes a lot of how some black people felt about the OJ case had a lot to do with how black people have been treated in this country. Black men in this country especially have been lynched and falsely imprisoned for years as you know all too well so it was kind of like "payback" in a way for all of that, but no matter how certain you are that OJ did it, you weren't there. None of us were, so nobody can say for sure.
[Edited 4/8/07 21:21pm]

LoDog said:

But those dudes were never artists, they were frauds all along. So when did they have the opportunity to sell any integrity?

Silli Vanilli were pimped-out.

CinisterCee said:

I have that on tape. He never said it was vitiligo. He never said what his "skin disease" was.

Krytonite said:

She was showing her midriff in her 3rd video "(You Drive Me) Crazy" and has never stopped since. She been sexually ever since then. Even though she was technically covered up in that red suit for "Oops I Did It Again" it was very much a cat suit and accentuated her shape, very sexually driven.

Cinnamon234 said:

Considering that studies repeatedly have demonstrated the psychological effects black Americans have suffered concerning their self-image by living in a white-dominant (and also a black-oppressed) society -- where the typical standard of beauty is a white person -- what makes you think Michael Jackson doesn't have those issues?

On some level, all black Americans in the United States have undergone such conditioning. And I don't how you could question it concerning MJ when he also is claiming that he has fathered obviously white children and has given himself very pronounced European features (such as his nose). That's not normal.

Cinnamon234 said:

Who in the world say anything about whether O.J. Simpson allegedly killed anyone? You pulled that completely out of nowhere. I mentioned the Simpson murder trial as an example of how the Afro-American community will support someone even when that person tries to remove himself or herself from the community with past actions. That's a refute to this idea that black people are big supporters of MJ beyond this "desperation" mode and are a big part of his fan base.

BTW, I would like to know what clubs you go to, because I haven't heard a Michael Jackson played in any type of setting like that in years. Most of the music he makes in recent years isn't danceable and it surely isn't popular with the teen-aged kids my wife teaches and I mentor throughout the school year. Most younger people know who MJ is mostly because he's been great copy for tabloids for all their lives.
[Edited 4/8/07 22:31pm]

Najee said:

Ice Cube hasn't sold out he's grown up and become a smarter businessman and taking advantage of more of his talents. I don't call this selling out. He's still Cube.


Kool and the Gang =sellout

Thumparello said:

I also can say that Kool & The Gang didn't sell out considering they never had a lead singer and the group almost folded before James "J.T." Taylor came on board. He transformed a floundering band into the most successful soul band in the 1980s, meaning the group took advantage of its talents.

I'll paraphrase you by saying "I don't consider this selling out. They were the same band. They were still Kool & The Gang."
[Edited 4/8/07 22:24pm]

Janfriend said:

Phrreal?? I have it on tape too!

CinisterCee said:

Yeah, play it again. Oprah asked him about bleaching his skin and he got defensive and said "I have a skin disease." He never named it. The next day, Doctors were on tv saying it was vitiligo, but Michael never said he had vitiligo in that initial interview

lilgish said:

lilgish,I LOVE your response! I agree with everything that you said. Most people who call Michael a "sell-out" are baseing it on his skin color. In fact, Michael is the complete opposite of a "sellout". MJ is the ONLY black artist who insisted that his videos play simaltaneously on BET AND MTV when they premiered. Michael never gave an interview to a mainstream or "white" magazine BEFORE he gave one to Ebony, Vibe or JET. Michael refused to give Rolling Stone an interview(although, they promised him a cover) during the Thriller Era because that same magazine would not give him a cover during his release of Off The Wall. They told him that they did not put black artists on the cover of Rolling Stone( or something to that effect). When Thriller became the biggest selling album of all time, Jann Wenner personally asked for an interview and Michael refused because of what they told him during Off The Wall. Michael could have given an interview to anyone that he wanted in the mainstream media. He refused and did an interview with a lesser known black show called "Ebony Showcase". Michael was the first BLACK artist to give a million dollars or more to the United Negro College Fund. It's a shame that more people are not aware of these things and are ignorant enough to base everything on Michael's "skin color". The ironic thing is that the biggest "sell-outs" are those who pretend to be so "down" or "from the hood" and are staying in all white neighborhoods and are shades darker than Michael. My definition of a "sell-out" is a black person who takes part in tearing down another black person while watching people of other races try to destroy that person. To me that is the ULTIMATE "sell-out".

Najee said:

Hmmm, the black people that I know don't detest Michael. Most have a new sense of respect for him because of the outcome of the trial and a LOT of respect because of his presence at James Brown's funeral. I have heard many people say that they are going to buy his new album for that fact alone. I have also seen a renewed interest in MJ from young people, especially teens. A radio station recently play a remixed version of "Give In To Me" and the listening audience went crazy. The response was overwhelmingly positive. I think that this awakened the interest in not only teenagers, but adults, as well. People are excited about new Michael Jackson music.

Najee said:

Najee,it seems as if you have an agenda. You continue to harp on the false allegations of molestation. You compare Michael to OJ. Why not compare OJ to Robert Blake and Phil Spector. All were accused of murdering their wives and/or lovers. I think that it is biased to continue to put Michael and OJ in the same breath. It also seems that you want people to believe that Michael is hated in the black community. He is not. Just as someone said, he is not as popular as he used to be and neither is Janet, Prince,Madonna or any of the other stars. Just the sheer fact that Michael is still around AND relevant to the music scene after over 40 years is great in itself. The fact that most hip-hop, rap, AND pop artists are influenced and respect Michael is something that no artist can admit. Even Prince doesn't get the same respect from today's artists that Michael does. There are many in the media and music industry who don't want Michael to be successful again because they want him to give up. The fact that he hasn't given up and continues to embrace life is just one more reason that his fans will never desert or give up on him.

Najee said:

LOL! I guess it depends on where you live. I live in a very large city with some of the best clubs anywhere. I don't frequent clubs but my daughter does on occasion. Every single time that she has gone, they have played Michael Jackson music. Even when she goes out of state, she was in Florida recently, they play Michael music. As I mentioned in a previous post, the #1 station in our city, played a remix of "Give In To Me" and the radio audience loved it. I was surprised because that song was from the Dangerous album and I didn't think people would react that way. The night that the DJ premiered the song, he must have played it about 30 times. Every 4 or 5 songs, they would play the "Give In To Me" remix. It became so popular that it was even in the afternoon countdowns. Because of THAT song, I have heard people talking about Michael's music more than I have in the last 5 or 6 years.My daughter says that her co-workers love the song. I have heard people say that their kids have it on their Ipods. I don't know if you live in a small town or what the musical climate is in that town. I live in a big city with lots of radio stations of every musical taste. I feel extremely lucky to be able to be able to choose a station that plays whatever I want to here. Thankfully, we are not relegated to listening to one style of music from a limited amount of stations.
[Edited 4/9/07 1:03am]

skyecute said:

....like THIS sell-out.

TonyVanDam said:

StarMon said:

As long as you get the sell-out and have a steady income stream ain't a thang wrong. The fools who end up broke and bankrupt don't a have thang to show for it but receipts. Don't take the flat fee; always get the percentage points on future earnings.

Najee said:

Just go to a young Black music forum like allhiphop/ill community when they are back online and you'll see how much interest there is amongst young Black music listeners.



My point is an MJ single will do better on Black radio than a Lionel one. YRMW
and especially Butterflies were huge Black radio hits.

Did Lionel really take a decade off? When that first big Greatest Hits came out in 1992 he had new songs that were hits which he promoted with videos and performances.

Anyway, his music of the last 10 years has been purely in the Mother's Day gift territory.
[Edited 4/9/07 7:19am]