JackieBlue said:

That's easy when you look at the core of Michael Jackson's fans today -- non-black people who came aboard/were alive during the "Bad" album forward. I doubt most of them even see MJ as being black, per se.
[Edited 4/8/07 0:29am]

Najee said:

True. Also in what context do they say he is looking good.? I like to believe that it is in the context that he looks better today than he looked in 2002, when he looked more awful than usual. But he has never really looked good to me since the Thriller era, the day he stopped looking anything like Michael Jackson, was the time he stopped truely looking good to me.

Najee said:

..or that black is beautiful.

..

ThreadBare said:

See, it is weird that I do like the way MJ looks because I also don´t like those blond Lil Kims and Beyonce as you said. I also prefer ppl having that natural type of beaty about them, but I just like Mike. I can´t say he looks absolutely fabulous today. He has definately looked better before, but he just has his good days when he looks attractive to me. But I think that we all underestimate the person´s character and charisma when it comes to judging who is beautiful and who is not. I found out that sometimes I find one and the same actor very attractive in certain movies and I couldn´t care less about him in others where he plays a character not to my liking. I just love MJ as a person and for me his inner beauty (even though I know that most of you don´t see that as well) always shines through.

As for those women that are supposed to be all white - what about Diana Ross? Ok they weren´t an item officially, but his love for her is quite famous. It is interesting that for many years it has been said that he had all those surgeries to look like her - a black woman.

uPtoWnNY - why do you put so much efford into visiting every single MJ thread to be so negative most of the time?


Believe it or not, I don´t either.

And last thing - I also don´t think that everything he´s done is because he HATES being black. I just don´t think so.

dag said:

Lemme guess - the "Joe abused him & he didn't wanna look like Joe" defense? Whatever his reasons for obliterating all traces of his former physical self, they're not worthy of respect or awe - the bitch needs mental help & has needed it for many, many years

these things used to piss me off too about how someone can possibly do that but I've learned not to dwell on it and focus on the music instead, because clearly it's none of our business, even if he made it people's business in many ways

If he did want to become white, did he just one day in 1983 wake up and say "You know what, being black is tired, I'll just become white! The world is still gonna love me, it'll be cool"

CalhounSq said:

No, I don´t think that Joseph or anyone was such a part of his decision to do so. MJ never even blamed it on him. If you watch Oprah´s interview where she asks him if him back than not liking the way he looks was why he did that, he said "not really". I wish I knew why he did that, but I somehow don´t care that much either. Ok, he did it. It hasn´t hurt anyone, but himself. It´s his business and what I care more about is how he behaves outside and I love the way he behaves and treats ppl. He is always respectful to ppl. And the fact that he once called Mottola names does not make me think he´s lost his mind but rather take him more seriously that something bad must have probably happened, becasue it was the ONLY time he has EVER said something negative about someone in public, even though he could have said something bad about ppl who would have deserved it. Let me give you an example. I love the way he answered to LMP´s bitching by releasing a statement that he wishes her all the best and that as a gentleman he prefers no to talk about their marriage. i am not saying that he would never messed up, but he sure has more dignity about himself than most ppl out there.And that´s what´s important to me when judging his character, not how many plastic surgeries he´s had.

dag said:

That's beautiful Dag, in a goofy, tunnel vision kinda way

Seriously though, he NEEDS fans like you who still see the good & believe. So in a really fucking strange way, I'm glad he has y'all

DarlingDiana said:

That's truly scary!!

alphastreet said:

In a way that's the best way to approach one's fandom for him at this stage, especially if you still respect him as an artist. I mean in a way I still admire MJ as an artist. I sometimes can't believe he was the same person who sang ABC and Ben but at the same time did classics like OTW and Thriller. I am amaze that he has been around this long, that he started that young, that he is even still standing after everything.

But, there is no way I am going to look at any pic of him and make myself believe he looks fine, when he doesn't. There were times during the J5 era and in the early solo days I could stare at him all day, he was gorgeous, but today I can't bring myself to look at him most times, because he looks awful and when I do look at him I don't SEE Michael Jackson, I see an androynous, white male or a weird looking white woman, but I don't see that man with brown-skin, sparkling eyes with heavy eye-brows and a sensual smile, which in my mind will always be the true Michael Jackson.

I think he has deep-rooted issues with his blackness, it is probably tied up to do with things to do with his father and his childhood in general, but to go such extremes to taking every single physical characteristic that made him Michael Jackson (can you imagine Brad Pitt and George clonney doing the same thing, I love to see how white people will react) and eliminating them, is the kind of self-hatred that is scary, and on top of that this is a person who can't even bear to have children who even look a little black; I really wanted to believe that those kids are his biological children, but there only so many coincidences one can take.

[Edited 4/7/07 11:18am]

dag said:

This is a classic Michael Jackson nutriding zealot statement. MJ vaguely looks his his own siblings and parents. The average human being doesn't go around making efforts to remove his racial being categorically. I'm not even seeing the comparison between Beyonce and Lil Him putting highlights in their hair (something a lot of women do, regardless of race) to MJ restructuring his face, possibly altering his skin color and even going as far as to claim he's fathered white children.

dag said:

YOU DON'T EVEN KNOW THE MAN! How in the world can you "see the inner beauty" in someone in the same distant fashion in which most people is viewing MJ? Unless you know the man personally, what you see in public is what MJ to some degree controls what you're seeing -- and what people see a lot of an eccentric middle-aged man who seemingly acts like he has never grown up. He's damn near 50 years old and he still wants to have some manchild persona.

dag said:

You can't be serious here. Diana Ross was mother figure-type influence in MJ's life -- they weren't an item in any fashion, like though other women I named. And if MJ said he had all those surgeries to resemble Ross, what does that tell you that a man wants his face sculpted in the image in a woman? And when did Ross have a nose job done like MJ's and all this other stuff he's likely done to himself?

dag said:

You're right -- I've seen plenty of black men who get their nose operated on so many times to resemble a distinctly Caucasian nose to the point it's caving in. Not to mention the other surgeries, dressing asexual at times and trying to pass off white children as the fruit of his loins.

[Edited 4/8/07 15:03pm]

whatsgoingon said:

I agree. There is no way you could have told me this child here:




would have grown up to be this freaky-looking, androgynous Caucasian:

I lot of what you mentioned is how I feel, whatsgoingon. I often feel sadness when I see MJ and it's not so much as clinging to the past as it is seeing self-hatred personified. Whether it be about race, gender or just who is inside, he is someone who went to extreme lengths to change himself. If that's not a lack of self-love and acceptance than I don't know what is.

Some fans harshly criticize celebs who have weaves, wear too much make up, dress provocatively and have plastic surgery, etc. but when it comes to MJ there's always an excuse, a defense for his actions. But if Britney or Brad or Whitney or Julia were to do one-third of the things MJ has done...
[Edited 4/7/07 11:34am]

bboy87 said:

good one.


That Beyonce and lil Kim comparision brought up someone else. Blond down not look natural on blacks, Beyonce looks OK, but Lil Kim looked terrible in lady Marmalade video for example. But that wasn´t my point.



You and the rest of the world may see MJ as you wish. You also don´t know the man personally and you are claiming that he is disturbed. Don´t forget that that disturbed persona that you see is also what the media love to portray his as the most. It is also not the pure reality.

He´s never said that. That was what I´ve read in tabloids several times.


Skin = vitiligo - can´t be taken as him wanting to be black.
And the rest? C´mon. You could have accused Prince of the same things and nobody says he wants to be white or a woman.

calhoun Thanks. Even though I don´t know what you mean by "tunnel vision kinda way". From you, it sounds like the greatest compliment I could get here on the org. (unless you are mean it ironically)

JackieBlue said:

Michael Jackson is the personification of most black Americans' historical perspective of acceptance in the United States. We have seen and known of instances where some black Americans compromised their beliefs and even their identity (i.e. "passing") for a socioeconomic diaspora rather than being acknowledged as black people, but MJ took it to another level.

It's like MJ was one of those kids who used to say angrily "I wish I was white" before going to bed and had a dream where he woke up white -- save he never woke up some 20 years later.
[Edited 4/7/07 17:28pm]

dag said:

Women of various, if not all, races have dyed their hair for centuries. I've seen Asian women dye their hair blond, for example. It doesn't matter if someone else mentioned that Beyonce and Lil Him dyed their hair first; you tried to use it in some shoddy defense for Michael Jackson.

dag said:

It's fairly obvious MJ has some psychological issues. Tell me this: Have YOU changed your appearance to the extreme he has? Since you seem to defend this behavior, have you tried to change your racial identity? Are YOU a middle-aged man still exhibiting behaviors I associate more with children?

dag said:

MJ has done that himself and he established that likely before your parents met. The fact you actually think MJ looks attractive (when he looks like he's raided someone's special effects kit) says you either have some issues with race or you're oblivious to the fact MJ doesn't look human.

dag said:

OK, so now you're quoting tabloids AFTER you made a strong assertion that MJ's plastic surgeries were inspired by wanting to look like Diana Ross. Good dodge.

daq said:

Vitiligo doesn't work to the degree that it explains MJ behing devoid of color -- it's rare that someone loses ALL their skin color. It's obvious something else has caused his skin to look the way it does.

dag said:

Prince has never tried to change his physical appearance to where people hardly recognized him.
[Edited 4/7/07 17:44pm]

Najee said:[quote]

Najee said:

It is rather interesting that as rare as vitiligo is, with as many entertainers there are in the world, with as many siblings as he has, HE is the one stricken with vitiligo. It's as if God said, you don't think you're beautiful as you are? I'll give you something to be complain about...
[Edited 4/7/07 11:56am]

JackieBlue said:

Well, what can you do? (Click to enlarge)


[Edited 4/7/07 12:15pm]

And you're posting pictures from TDCAU because....?

JackieBlue said:

you sound as if vitiligo was only in his imagination.

dag said:

Not at all. I believed he had vitiligo from the beginning. I just think it's interesting that someone who was one of the most popular artists ever and has such difficulty living as he was made to be, was stricken with a disease that would ultimate alter his physical appearance.

JackieBlue said:

yes, it definately is interesting, but does that mean that you don´t believe he has it anymore? As far as I know, there is no other possible explanation. I asked my aunt who is a doctor if it could be done any other way and she said there isn´t. See if it was possible, it would be interesting that he is the only who ever took advantage of it.

has anybody seen this,

http://www.youtube.com/wa...ed&search=

its michaels son private video posted on youtube,

if you watch on 2.05 you can see MJ rubbing off his makeup off his neck in the mirror and can just about see some dark blotches there,

he definitely has vitiligo,

as for why his son is so white, thats a whole new discussion lol

it seems strange that his son has blonde hair and completely white skin,
even though MJ is african american,
[Edited 4/7/07 12:52pm]

JackieBlue said:

Except that makeup is made for vitiligo sufferers. MJ could have bought makeup that was his natural complexion.

He went another way with it, bleaching his skin. That and wigs & the surgeries to look whiter, trying to pass off white children as biologically his...

That man has some DEEP stuff going on.

Krytonite said:

Their sitting kinda close for brother and sister. They look like their married.

ThreadBare said:

Very well stated TB.

My Dad has taken a few trips to Egypt with a tour group headed at the time by "Dr. Ben" (Egyptologist, Dr. Yosef A.A. ben-Jochannan).
He offered to sponsor a trip for me but at that particular time I couldn't go.
When he returned he sent me a video cassette produced by the group on the subject of Black History/Awareness and the connection to Egypt.
At one point, there was a chronology of Michael Jackson's facial incarnations.
The narrator, in a voice dripping with disdain said, "Look at him. Lookin' like some kind of Black Frankenstein."

I think that unfortunately says it all.

tA

Tribal Disorder

http://www.soundclick.com...dID=182431
[Edited 4/7/07 16:08pm]

dag said:

Interesting choice of words, in so many ways...

dag said:

"Tunnel vision" is seeing things in a very narrow way, like one way of viewing something (how it looks when you're actually inside a tunnel). The compliment is that I'm glad he has fans like you b/c he seems to need that, but I don't believe you're taking the WHOLE man into account - you're kind of seeing what you want to see, not the whole picture... or necessarily the "truth" in my opinion...

CalhounSq said:

Double Really missed the days he looked like that. WHy you really fuck yourself up Michael? Know what I used to be a HUGE fan of his but I am not cool with anyone who doesnt love themselves or self-hatred including Michael