like... the person who actually wrote the melodies and chord changes, and the person who adds on the words they had in a journal.

who wrote Elton John's songs?

who wrote Christina Aguilera's songs?

who wrote Janet Jackson's songs?

who really wrote "Buttons" by Pussy Cat Dolls. Yknow?

I think in some cases, singers are given beats and they write all the lyrics, meaning the melody to go on top as well. I believe Usher, Mariah, and since 1998 Madonna can be credited for this. I think this is how Alanis freestyled lyrics over Glen Ballard chord changes. I bet Beyonce wrote "Bootylicious" without being handed a melody... just that Stevie Nicks beat.

This isn't always the case though.

I am pretty sure that Christina Aguilera DID NOT write "Beautiful".

I am pretty sure that Madonna didn't write "Oh Father" (besides, have you heard her poems?)


I think alot of the time, a songwriter takes the content ideas from the person (Justin Timberlake has therapy session with Pharrell or whoever) and then the song is spun for them.

In rap, you're given the beat and u write 16 bar verses with no melody.

If you're Lil' Kim or another member of Junior MAFIA, Biggie wrote your debut for you.

All these old industry definitions are outdated, and they are mostly used to exploit holes in legalities.

Of course, it's not such a big deal on the level of as successful artists as you are referring to (since everybody's going to get their money one way or another), but it's a far bigger problem with a "songwriter" or "producer" some A&R guy plugged straight out of myspace fame.

CinisterCee said:

Linda Perry wrote it.

Axchi696 said:

Exactly, but somehow these pop stars get their co-writer credits.

CinisterCee said:

In my copy of Stripped (), Perry is the only one that gets credit for the song. No Slaguilera credit to be found.

Axchi696 said:

ok good! i read THIS and was like

PurpleAlegria said:

http://www.prince.org/msg...1067?&pg=5

CinisterCee said:

OK, My bad, I was mistaken. I am not a huge Xtina fan or anything that knows everything about her, But I do think that she is a great singer and a good songwriter. I had read that she wrote this song and the source was wrong I see. BUT, that still does not take that much away from my original arugument. Saying that Nichole from PCD is a better songwriter than Xtina is preposterous!!!

CinisterCee said:

Maybe I don't quite understand your thread, but.....

Elton wrote all music - Bernie Taupin wrote the lyrics

Christina - I have no idea as I'm not a fan

I seriously don't believe Janet ever wrote a song in her life. Seriously, she may add a few lyrics but I believe JJ and TL wrote most of her work.

Pat, Steven, Shep, Dallas, William, Mirwais, Stuart, and Madonna all say the same thing. She write writes the lryics.

I dont know but (s)he must be

well, for Elton John.... Bernie writes the lyrics and Elton writes the music. That's a pretty well-known one.


I read an old interview with Jam or Lewis, where he (whichever it was) said that for Control, most of the songs were already written for another artist and that didn't work out, so they used them for Janet. i also read another interview with one of them that said they got ideas about what she wanted to say with her music and they wrote the lyrics based on that. so, did they write the songs for someone else? did they write and produce the music for someone else and write the lyrics for Janet? either way, it's clear that on Control, Janet didn't write much at all, if anything.

ehuffnsd said:

Lyrics means the words AND melody.

There are some big name artists who do get a writing credit for songs that they didn't write, because that artist singing the song gives the song more value to the songwriter's wallet than if it ended up being sung by Joe Shmoe from Kokomo, ya know?

This happened a lot with Celine Dion's songs in the mid/late 90's. She's listed at the office as a songwriter because they knew it was going to be an enormous hit and sell millions of copies because it was sung by HER, so she would get some dough out of the song for popularizing it in the first place. they did have enough tact to not list her as a writer in the liner notes, though, and let the writer get the credit publicly.

i don't know for sure, but i doubt this was done with the big name song writers she worked with (David Foster, Diane Warren, etc.), -- i doubt it -- but i know it was done with a lot of the others.

Tessa said:

I am pretty sure this is how Control worked.

The thing is when i look at liner notes and see 4 or 5 different people in songwriting credits then i know the singer had nothing to do with the song, this is true of almost all Beyonces work, though i like her, she doesnt write at least not yet. This can also be said of Mariah, who i love to death, but i feel overall she may write about 25% of her songs herself, which is fine, and alot of the other credits were just having a little input here and there. Now when i see one person listed then i know they did everything, as far as Elton John, he always writes the music, the unique thing with him is that he writes the music seperate from Bernie, they do not collaborate, Elton has a piece of music, then he gets the words and fits them in, changes around choruses and verses and makes them fit.

Why do I have this feeling that Beyonce was given the beat to "Bootylicious" and she wrote the rest?

While I highly doubt she wrote that one nominated for an Oscar this year?

CinisterCee said:

Though i would like her to take credit for Bootylicious, i really do think she came up with the term, i think someone else filled in the blanks. So once again she had the "Booty" and someone did the rest.

lastdecember said:

why? Bootylicious is hardly Beethoven's 5th. why is it hard to imagine that a young woman came up with "Bootylicious"?

CinisterCee said:

No it doesn't. The songwriter is credited for the melody ("music by"), however in the legalities (that have remained the same since the 30s or the 40s in this respect) the person who writes the lyrics ("lyrics by" - meaning words) gets half of the copyright. The other half of it goes to the person who did the melody. There is no copyright ownership for the arrangers and the programmers, except via separate agreements which must be quite commonplace today. In the end it's a private matter whom the people involved in the production process choose to register officially as the writers, but the lyrics refer to just the word content solely.
[Edited 3/21/07 0:02am]

novabrkr said:

phrreal?



my apologies to ehuffnsd, and most of the singers i dissed on this thread and prior to this i'm sure.

thanks novabreaker, that actually makes rap copyrights easier to understand too.

CinisterCee said:

Is this where they all get their lyrics? Do we know for a fact that all these people carry a journal around?

heartbeatocean said:

Don't tear me down NOW! I already showed my ass on this thread.

here's how i see it:

i'm a "producer". i have some good beats but i don't have the vocal skills to sing so i find singers who i think would be a good "fit" for the song.

in summary;

producer=musical "designer".since i'm the designer i cam make alterations to my creations to fit the artist as well(within resonable limits )

singer=the "body" or in this case,the "voice" canvas,etc.sometimes i can have a singer sing a "demo" or in the case of clothes, wear it,break it in to see how it fits,etc.if i don't like it or if the singer doesen't i'll scrap it (put surplus track(s) on the shelf) and try again.sometimes this process comes about quickly.at other times slowly.the end result? positive recognition for the producer,singer and engineer alike.

all in all, a win-win situation.

theoretically speaking,of course.

CinisterCee said:

I have a journal.