I'm such a trouble maker! But for real.....

If everyone in The Org are going to have further professional discussions about the positives & negatives of music genres, at least let make some difinitions along the way, shall we?

This is what I already known:

C.R.A.P. - Contemporary Rap AND Pop

R&B - Rhythmless Bullshyt (mostly of the 21st century and parts of the 1990's)

Now comes the hard part. I have no absolute final decision of the difinition of shit-hop. I need suggestions (especially from you VA, because you invent the word to begin with!) and I need some specifics (tempo measure in beats per minute [BPM], certain instruments [especially keyboard synths] to blame for the shit-hop sound, etc.)

CinisterCee (and every fan of REAL hip-hop), give me some serious suggestions on the difinition of hip-hop. I need something that can maintain some form of distance from the weak, boring, negative, non-groundbreaking sound that is still on the mainstream radar.

BTW, this thread is just for fun. So we shouldn't have to take ourselves too seriously until necessary.

Thanks in advance.

definition of true hip hop SOUTH BRONX case closed.
[Edited 3/5/07 20:09pm]

IAintTheOne said:

I could file albums into 2 separate sections for you, but I couldn't define it for you.

Hip Hop (M.C.-ing, b-boy-ing, turntablism (scratching, cutting, etc.), graffiti writing), wasn't just a genre. It was a culture and an era. Much like Doo-Wop was an era. Doo-Wop was all about harmonizing and vocal arrangements, which was the "music to peoples ears". It was unplugged and live in the alleys and street corners. M.C.-ing (which no longer exists) was similar in the sense that the person rappin' would Move the Crowd. DJ or not a true M.C. would make a groove with his mouth and maybe some hand claps & finger snaps. Doo-Wop was something great that evolved into something else. Just like Hip Hop has done. The true Hip Hop era died for me somewhere in the mid to late 80s.

Hip Hop is a term that is used to loosely these days.

N.E.R.D-Never,Ever Really Down (with Hip Hop)
S.H.I.T-Some Hip Hop is Trifling

I always liked KRS's proclamation-Rapping is something you do, Hip Hop is something you live. Everything I do, I do with a Hip Hop sense of mind.

AzhnConnectzhn said:

Hip-Hop, as a genre, culture, and "state of mind," has been co-opted. Its cache of goodwill is based on:

1. a legacy of pioneers giving voice to a new generation of black youth, and

2. creative DJs, MCs, producers and poets who honed a new sound into a viable worldwide art form.

It has been co-opted by mainstream media to sell records, clothes, liquor, cars, and other items. Some of hip-hop's premier artists (Queen Latifah, Ice Cube, Mos Def, Common, et al) have taken advantage. But it causes the "brand" to be watered down.

It has been co-opted by preening, ignorant, incompetent "MCs" and "DJs" who lack the ability, nuance and context to represent in true hip-hop fashion, instead reveling in minstrelsy.

It has been co-opted by many of our intellectuals, who use it to aggrandize themselves.

Najee said:

you forgot the crime. there's always the crime.

and the things. oh, those wonderful things, like cars, liquor, jewelry. you know, the materialism that reduces artists to record little black children singing nursery rhymes a la "do ya chain hang low?" in broken english, in a manner that Amos and Andy would be proud of.

The main thing about the shit hop sound is the type of drum machines that are used. Yeah, lots of folks like Prince in the 1980s had drum machines but they were a totally different sounding drum machine than shit hop has. The drum machines beat hard at did sound somewhat realistic. Even the rap artists back then had different sounding drum machines. Listen to the drum machines from someone like Egyptian Lover and compare them to the drum machines of the artists of today. House music also had a different sounding drum machine which also beat hard. Some rock and new wave groups had hard sounding drum machines also.

The difference in drum machines in shit hop and drum machines in the other genres I mentioned is the way they sound. The hardness of the beat. Shit hop drum machines barely tap, and I do mean barely. Also, when shit hop drum machines flow and then suddenly change the pace in a song, a lot of times they sound like someone editing with a pause button on a double cassette recorder and not quite getting the edit to flow smoothly. In other words, shit hop drum machines sound amateurish. They also sound cheap. They sound just like the drum rhythms on a little $20 keyboard at Walmart.

The synths are another thing in shit hop. Synths in the 1980s sounded unique and powerful. Synths in shit hop (the Snoop Doggy Dog sound) sound "Mickey Mousey" and childish sounding. They also sound like they came from a little cheap toy from Walmart.

Shit hop is also stripped down to absolutely nothing but "talking" over those weak drum machines and the weak synths. Also, when they add a sample, it's not creative small snips over some original music. It's the whole foundation of the song.

The tempo is another thing that defines shit hop. In the 1980s, rap and hip hop was much faster. It was at the same pace of funk and a lot of it was even faster at a disco pace. Shit hop never gets past midtempo and a lot of it is at the tempo of what our ballads were in the 1980s....yet it is all that is played on, of all things, dance floors these days.

To sum it all up. Shit hop is the definition of all things cheap and boring. It has a cheap sound and anything entertaining about music such as danceability, has been taken out of it. It has the tempo of all things boring....opera, symphony, etc. There is no fun in the music either. It's all about lyrics and nothing about music. If it's all about lyrics, then it's not music at all, it's thugged out poetry. Poetry belongs in boring cafes and not radio and dancefloors.

Great post. Rap and hip hop used to be an actual party and it was great.

Najee said:

Very helpful.

CinisterCee said:

namepeace said:

Amos & Andy are honor roll students compare to this!

vainandy said:

Very helpful. Thanks!

BTW, the drum machines of the 1980's were Linn LM-1, Roland TR-808, Roland TR-909, & Oberheim DMX (I would know because I use different drum hit samples of these classics within FL Studio, my favorite recording software). Those drum machines hit hard even before you add any studio effects to them.

TonyVanDam said:

you almost gotta water them shits down so they DON'T bump

CinisterCee said:

Put extra compression on the Roland TR-808 for the big boom! [b]

Boy that Roland TR-808 was the shit. couple of guy's that were rapping back in day asked me to lay down some scratches .. they had the 'Roland TR-808, a tascam 4 track recorder and a sk-1 for the samples.