Since The Org is on the roll with a few of these "Hip-Hop Is Dead" & "Hip Hop Sales Are Dropping" threads, I think now is the time to question the strengths & weaknesses of hip-hop/rap genre's first ever double album.

So what's the answers?

TonyVanDam said:

It helped 2pac's career.

All Eyes On Me made 2pac the #1 rap artist in 1996 before he died but in my opinion "Me Against The World" was 2pac's best album.

I don't think any of 2Pac's albums really hurt his career. In my opinion, the only things that really hurt Pac's career was when he assaulted those two directors (and admitted it on Yo! MTV Raps) and when he started beefing with Biggie. Songs like "Dear Mama", "Brenda's Got A Baby", and "Keep Yo Head Up", showed me that there was a depth to 2Pac that many other rappers didn't possess, not even Biggie. He had lyrical depth that made him seem like more of a misunderstood poet than just your common rap artist. He just seemed like one of those artists who got caught up in the game of the moment and it lead to his death. I put him in the same category with artists like Aaliyah and Left-Eye. Artists who had soo much talent, but were taken from us waay too soon. Their deaths are the one's that sadden me the most.

Krytonite said:

I agree, without question. Me Against The World was THE Real 2pac writing from the heart, without most of the controversy, hype, & drama that would shape the success of All Eyez On Me later on.

BTW, I also have a strong opinion that Strictly 4 My N****z is a very underrated album.

TonyVanDam said:

hurt? i think it put in him a certain position with the people he was now hanging with. i.e suge and all that mess.

but the album itself is one of his best! its "the tupac" album i guess.
i remember on mtv after he got out of jail he said alot of this album was done in two weeks!

estelle81 said:

Even before Suge Knight enter the picture, I have to wonder if the lessons of Thug Life marked the beginning of Pac's downfall. I know a lot of people of my parents' generation totally hated that part! [b]

TonyVanDam said:

I've always considered All Eyez On Me to be his "excess" record. AEOM is a good album and all, and it was his most successful work, but at this time 2Pac was evolving from being a social political prophet to having a "thug mentality", living a wreckless lifestyle. In the end, you look back at the AEOM era and you say to yourself, this was a good time, but was the rapper who concieved this piece of work satisfied with his life at the time. I still believe that the previous album, Me Against The World was his last album that had that uncovered and raw humanity and that is still his best album, IMHO next to The Don Killuminati: The 7 Day Theory. I don't think AEOM had that vibe, because it was more of a celebatory work.

As I alluded to in the other thread, this was the beginning of the end for me. It made him a huge star, but IMO it turned him from charming to megalomaniacal.

Man, this CD has sold in excess of 20 million joints, kid. This is probably the most successful Hip-Hop album ever made. You have to understand where 'Pac was coming from when he dropped this. The man had just got outta prison and in one day - already had recorded 7 tracks!

poeticrockstar said:

Like I said, going to jail and getting in such public events (getting five shot times in the lobby of a New York recording studio, shooting two off-duty police officers in Atlanta) is what made Tupac Shakur's career. It gave credence to this thug persona he created on his records. If you can create a timeline with the incidents and his album releases (and corresponding sales), you can see there is a correlation that combined with being an above-average rapper made him this Pied Piper of thug life.

Najee said:

You know what? I disagree with you and that's cool that we can, chief. Tupac had positive messages in his music. It just so happened that he had some unfortunate events happen to him. He wanted to continue to bring that positive message but things happened. I think that Tupac was one of the greatest rappers and to this day, his music is celebrated worldwide. That stands for something.

poeticrockstar said:

Let's look at the timeline between Tupac Shakur's album sales and his personal life:

1991: Releases "2Pacalypse Now." Moderate success, goes gold in 1995.

early 1992: A young man claimed his killing of a Texas trooper was inspired by the album "2Pacalypse Now."

1993: Releases "Strictly 4 My N.I.G.G.A.Z." Eventually goes platinum, in no small part to the start of his legal woes.

October 1993: Shakur shoots two off-duty police officers in Atlanta that were harassing a black motorist.

December 1993: Shakur was charged with sexually abusing a woman in his hotel room.

early 1994: Shukur was convicted of attacking a former employer while on a music video set. He was sentenced to 15 days in jail with additional days on a highway work crew, community service and a $2,000 fine.

November 30, 1994: The day before the verdict in his sexual abuse trial was to be announced, Shakur was shot five times in the lobby of the Quad Recording Studios in Manhattan in an apparent robbery attempt. He would later accuse Puff Daddy and Notorious B.I.G. — whom he saw after the shooting — of setting him up.

early 1995: A wrongful death lawsuit was brought against Shakur in the 1992 shooting of six-year-old Qa'id Walker-Teal of Marin City, California. Shakur settled with the family for an amount estimated between $300,000 and $500,000.

February 14, 1995: Shakur was sentenced to one and a half years to four and a half years in prison. After serving part of his sentence on the sexual abuse conviction, he was released on bail pending his appeal.

Februrary 27, 1995: Releases "Me Against the World." The album debuts at the top of the charts, selling some 5 million-plus copies.

January 2006: After serving eleven months of prison time, Shakur was released from prison, due in large part to the help and influence of Marion "Suge" Knight, CEO of Death Row Records.

February 1996: Released "All Eyez on Me," which sells more than 9 million copies.

April 5, 1996: A judge sentences him to serve 120 days in jail for violating terms of probation.

September 7, 1996: Shakur attended the Mike Tyson - Bruce Seldon boxing match at the MGM Grand in Las Vegas. He spotted Orlando "Baby Lane" Anderson, knocked him down and Shakur's entourage beat him. Shortly, he's killed in a drive-by shooting -- and a martyr is born.

2Pac's image -- and subsequently his record sales -- were fueled by his antics. The correlation, in fact, is painfully obvious. He fed into the image that he was the thug that he boasted of being in his records, which in a twist gave him all the street cred he needed to validate himself.

Tupac was more than competent enough as a rap artist, but it's the combination of his exploits and songs that created this near-cultish awe some people have of him. It's foolish to think his legacy is built on his songs solely -- in fact, I would say the songs in which he performed are secondary to the antics in terms of his legacy.
[Edited 3/4/07 7:34am]

Najee said:

You know what, chief? I see where you are going with this and on the cool, I can't go there with you. May the Universe bless you in everything you and one love, my friend.

poeticrockstar said:

It's ironic you would end our conversation with a peaceful message when we're talking about someone whose public life emphasized violence. In fact, your words and defense of Tupac are rather contradictory.
[Edited 3/8/07 17:50pm]

poeticrockstar said:

CORRECTION: The first half of this double album was written & recorded within a week.

Najee said:

I didn't know about that incident of early 1995! What was that about?

TonyVanDam said:

A wrongful death lawsuit was brought against Tupac Shakur for a 1992 shooting that left Qa'id Walker-Teal, a six-year old of Marin City, California dead. The child had been the victim of a stray bullet in a shootout between Shakur's entourage and a rival group, though the ballistics tests proved the bullet was not from any members Shakur's entourage's guns. Criminal charges were not sought and Shakur settled with the family for an amount estimated between $300,000 and $500,000.
[Edited 3/4/07 10:48am]

Najee said:

....despite that the bullet didn't come from his gun. See, this is why promoting Thug Life (as a marketing tool) was a mistake.

TonyVanDam said:

Usually when someone settles a lawsuit like that, there tends to be other factors not revealed to the public that could have been detrimental to Tupac Shakur's career (if not, why even bother settling)? So the settlement is more or less to keep the case from going forward, and Shakur or his crew likely played a role in the situation escalating to the point where gunshot was fired.

The album hurt him and helped him. It made him a bigger superstar and richer, but it put him in that mindset that he tried to get out of when he went to jail in 1994

AlexdeParis said:

I tend to agree with this post.

People go on and on about Biggie and 2pac but to be honest near their ends they were both getting wack which seems to go hand in hand with being more commercial (All Eyez On Me, Life After Death).

TonyVanDam said:

WHAT! This album is a hip hop classic. This was a great album. It's interesting because he recorded the album so quick. This album helped 2Pac career but, he was already established. The "T.H.U.G.L.I.F.E" volume 1 era and "Me Against The World" era is classic. In fact, the material recorded during those eras dominated the "R U Still Down" album. He just became a bigger star after that album. It changed rap forever. He had so many big producers in R&B and Rap, It was crazy. He had so many people apart of that album everybody from Daz Dillinger (aka Dat Nigga Daz), DJ Quik (who used his real name due to his red-tape from his label at the time), Dr. Dre, DeVante Swing (from Jodeci), Johnny J., and that was just on tha production side of it. Nearly the entire Death Row roster appeared on there and more. Everyone from Snoop Dogg, Dr. Dre, Tha Dogg Pound, (the introdution of Tha Outlaw Immortals concept which was to combine two previous groups under 2Pac togther T.H.U.G.L.I.F.E. being one of them) Tha Outlawz, Nate Dogg, E-40, Dru Down, Redman, Method Man, K.C. & Jo-Jo, Michel'le, Jewel, C-Bo, George Clinton, Roger Troutman, Danny Boy, and Rappin' 4-Tay. Containing some of 2Pac's biggest hits like California Love, How Do U Want It, 2 of AmeriKka's Most Wanted, I Ain't Mad at Cha, All About U, and etc. It was his biggest album but, not his best. It helped his career grow larger and made Death Row Records a bigger than life label. He was a star be the album but, after this album he became a superstar. He made so much money off of that one album, he was able to do much more than before. Death Row made some up money off of that album. It's a classic!

CinisterCee said:

I don't want to misunderstand you. But based upon what you just said, Biggie was wack throughout his whole career! While he was alive, he only has 2 career albums & both were commercial success.

TonyVanDam said:

hahahaha I meant stylistically, but I guess even his first one was commercial enough for Nas to go from Illmatic to It Was Written.

Najee said:

i got chills reading this. thanks for sharing it...

This album is tight but it's no Don Killuminati.

This was his so called best cd. At least 2 me.

I like the title track over the Linda Clifford loop.