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Printablephunkdaddy said:
R&b bands are still around. It is just the older bands from the 70's/80's. Bands like the barkays,cameo,confunkshun,ewf,maze,dazz,gap band are still touring but new releases from these bands are few and far between because of today's sad market. The Barkays and Cameo both made some decent music in the 1990s that contained some funk but it got absolutely no radio airplay whatsoever. Both of them eventually sold out to the shit hop sound and The Barkays got a little bit of airplay with their embarrasment of a sellout song called "Holla If You Hear Me". What's fucked up is, they can't make funk because the sorry ass radio won't play it. The barkays just released a new cd today called house party.
I have a feeling it's going to be like their last release....which I didn't buy. I love The Barkays but they won't get a dime of my money for something shit hop influenced. When these bands tour most of the fans are looking to hear the old stuff.
That's because the old stuff is the good stuff. Usually, when an older artist makes something new (with the exception of Prince), it is some sellout music that's trying to fit in with today's music. Their older fans don't want to hear shit hop and the young shit hop fans of today don't want to hear shit hop coming from an older artist. . . [Edited 2/27/07 13:22pm] Andy is a four letter word. | |
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CinisterCee said: the root of R&B band erosion is Teddy Riley's creation of New Whack Swing! R&B songs made with programmed beats in the style of rap. | |
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NWF said:
Well, the bands haven't completely died out. I mean, even Soul artists need a backup band when they're on the road and stuff. And that's what makes me absolutely FURIOUS. If a band is good enough for a concert, then why the hell can't they record the CD with the band on it? Styles will never change and shit hop will never go out of style as long as it's sound is recorded on the CDs because CDs are what are played on the radio and reach the largest audience. Andy is a four letter word. | |
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vainandy said: StarMon said:
This lil cheap mofo is the shit starter  Wrong! Today's music sounds more like it was made on one of these..... 
But that's only for when the whole band gets together. For those creative new artists that like to create songs all by themselves without the help of others, this is what they use..... 
. . [Edited 2/27/07 13:00pm]     National Funk League✮✮ | |
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I'm trying to answer this by 1) parsing out self-contained funk/blakrock bands and 2) ignoring the encroachment of rap into r&b. This narrows the field of r&b to: a solo vocalist (Luther, Aretha, Stevie), a group of vocalists (Temptations, En Vogue) or a instrumentalist singing lead vocals (Ray Charles, George Benson). In most cases these artists would record music with the label's house band and go on the road with hired hands from their local area or regional along the tour route.
Usher, Destiny's Child and Alicia Keyes fit the models described above. Maybe it's a matter of taste (I wouldn't listen to either of these if not for my kids), but all three have had tremendous success, haven't they? test | |
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Well let me ask you this, if an R&B/Funk band (a young one at that) were to come along today, do you think they would be as successful? Would they even have a shot at a record deal? NEW WAVE FOREVER: SLAVE TO THE WAVE FROM THE CRADLE TO THE GRAVE. | |
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NWF said: Well let me ask you this, if an R&B/Funk band (a young one at that) were to come along today, do you think they would be as successful? Would they even have a shot at a record deal? They wouldn't be successful at all. If they even got a record deal, then they would get no radio airplay. These record companies and radio stations are all owned by major corporations these days that own several labels and stations. If it ain't cheap to make, they are going to make sure it doesn't catch on. The only thing they would probably agree to play instead of shit hop, would be acapella singers because there be absolutely no instruments whatsoever. The only thing cheaper than that would be albums of complete silence....which they would sell if they could find people stupid enough to buy them because they think silence is "art". . . [Edited 2/27/07 14:41pm] Andy is a four letter word. | |
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CinisterCee said: the root of R&B band erosion is Teddy Riley's creation of New Whack Swing! R&B songs made with programmed beats in the style of rap.
As an old school hip-hop head you know that Teddy didn't "create" NJS. It was created by an R&B hip-hop band named Full Force. But I do agree that the style and street freshness of the productions did help to destroy R&B bands. Teddy was fascinating with creating sounds, which lead to his own demise as the most sought after producer of the 90's. So, sounds, not music, is what sells.  What?
 I'm sick and tired of the Prince fans being sick and tired of the Prince fans that are sick and tired! | |
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well they better figure something out quick cuz there are only 2 hip hop albums in the top 100 on itunes  Check it out ...Shiny Toy Guns R gonna blowup VERY soon and bring melody back to music..you heard it here 1st! http://www.myspacecomment...theone.mp3 | |
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Adisa said: CinisterCee said: the root of R&B band erosion is Teddy Riley's creation of New Whack Swing! R&B songs made with programmed beats in the style of rap.
As an old school hip-hop head you know that Teddy didn't "create" NJS. It was created by an R&B hip-hop band named Full Force. But I do agree that the style and street freshness of the productions did help to destroy R&B bands. Teddy was fascinating with creating sounds, which lead to his own demise as the most sought after producer of the 90's. So, sounds, not music, is what sells. What?
I get what you're saying. You could pin the blame on Full Force just as easily! My point is the org likes pointing at a genre of "rap" for being assimilated into "r&b" but won't blame Full Force, Teddy Riley, or even Bell Biv Devoe (who so obviously co-opted the styles sonically and visually). | |
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CinisterCee said: Adisa said: As an old school hip-hop head you know that Teddy didn't "create" NJS. It was created by an R&B hip-hop band named Full Force. But I do agree that the style and street freshness of the productions did help to destroy R&B bands. Teddy was fascinating with creating sounds, which lead to his own demise as the most sought after producer of the 90's. So, sounds, not music, is what sells. What?
I get what you're saying. You could pin the blame on Full Force just as easily! My point is the org likes pointing at a genre of "rap" for being assimilated into "r&b" but won't blame Full Force, Teddy Riley, or even Bell Biv Devoe (who so obviously co-opted the styles sonically and visually). I agree and disagree. At one point FF and Teddy (along with other NJS producers Al B., DeVante, Dallas Austin, JAm and Lewis etc.) knew how to construct a good song and the production was just to make it make it appealing to a wider audience. 40 year olds and teenagers loved Keith Sweat and Guy. These days when it comes to R&B there are no songs--just new schoolers trying to capitalize off whatever the trend is and a few 'neo-soulers' who try to capitalize off nostaglia and are likewise given more credit in the talent dept. than they deserve. I'm sick and tired of the Prince fans being sick and tired of the Prince fans that are sick and tired! | |
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Adisa said: CinisterCee said: I get what you're saying. You could pin the blame on Full Force just as easily! My point is the org likes pointing at a genre of "rap" for being assimilated into "r&b" but won't blame Full Force, Teddy Riley, or even Bell Biv Devoe (who so obviously co-opted the styles sonically and visually). I agree and disagree. At one point FF and Teddy (along with other NJS producers Al B., DeVante, Dallas Austin, JAm and Lewis etc.) knew how to construct a good song and the production was just to make it make it appealing to a wider audience. 40 year olds and teenagers loved Keith Sweat and Guy. These days when it comes to R&B there are no songs--just new schoolers trying to capitalize off whatever the trend is and a few 'neo-soulers' who try to capitalize off nostaglia and are likewise given more credit in the talent dept. than they deserve. But this thread is about the erosion of R&B Bands not songwriting? It looks like you would also like to deflect the argument that they all had a hand in this: FF, Teddy, Al B., DeVante, Dallas Austin, Jam and Lewis... | |
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vainandy said: StarMon said:
This lil cheap mofo is the shit starter Wrong! Today's music sounds more like it was made on one of these.....
But that's only for when the whole band gets together. For those creative new artists that like to create songs all by themselves without the help of others, this is what they use.....
. . [Edited 2/27/07 13:00pm] Oh you mean like Omarion. Touch- doom doom doom touch doom doom doom. entourage- doom doom doom doom doom doom doom doom doom doom doom.
Now i know where he gets his beats from. Don't laugh at my funk
This funk is a serious joint | |
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phunkdaddy said: vainandy said: Wrong! Today's music sounds more like it was made on one of these.....
But that's only for when the whole band gets together. For those creative new artists that like to create songs all by themselves without the help of others, this is what they use.....
Oh you mean like Omarion. Touch- doom doom doom touch doom doom doom. entourage- doom doom doom doom doom doom doom doom doom doom doom.
Now i know where he gets his beats from. OK this was funny. | |
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dont forget the bicycle horn they use in Fergie's London Bridge
 Check it out ...Shiny Toy Guns R gonna blowup VERY soon and bring melody back to music..you heard it here 1st! http://www.myspacecomment...theone.mp3 | |
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Mazerati said: dont forget the bicycle horn they use in Fergie's London Bridge
| |
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Yeah,if the Rolling stones can put out an album make a little on that, then go out on tour,and sell out stadiums and make billions of dollars. while somebody like Kool and the Gang , can't even get a record out or airplay, but will go out and tour but won't even come close to making what the stones will, or make what they did during their haydays. Something is wrong here .I blame the record company And Black radio. the Record comp only care about what's hot&new, and Black radio only play what their coporations tell them to play. Boy don't i miss radio from back in the day, and for those in Detroit, boy don't you miss Mojo why in God's name do u wanna make me cry | |
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And for those who don't know who Mojo is. He helped put Prince on the map here in Detroit. But he played all types of music. Not just what was hot at that time why in God's name do u wanna make me cry | |
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CinisterCee said: Adisa said: I agree and disagree. At one point FF and Teddy (along with other NJS producers Al B., DeVante, Dallas Austin, JAm and Lewis etc.) knew how to construct a good song and the production was just to make it make it appealing to a wider audience. 40 year olds and teenagers loved Keith Sweat and Guy. These days when it comes to R&B there are no songs--just new schoolers trying to capitalize off whatever the trend is and a few 'neo-soulers' who try to capitalize off nostaglia and are likewise given more credit in the talent dept. than they deserve. But this thread is about the erosion of R&B Bands not songwriting? It looks like you would also like to deflect the argument that they all had a hand in this: FF, Teddy, Al B., DeVante, Dallas Austin, Jam and Lewis... I'm pointing out that hip-hop R&B/NJS was birthed by a band and it was successful because the songs were actual R&B songs (not just sounds and loops) that were produced with a hip-hop feel. So how did a band's creation help to destroy itself and all other bands?  can't see in the dark "edit"[Edited 2/27/07 20:05pm] I'm sick and tired of the Prince fans being sick and tired of the Prince fans that are sick and tired! | |
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Adisa said: CinisterCee said: But this thread is about the erosion of R&B Bands not songwriting? It looks like you would also like to deflect the argument that they all had a hand in this: FF, Teddy, Al B., DeVante, Dallas Austin, Jam and Lewis... I'm pointing out that hip-hop R&B/NJS was birthed by a band and it was successful because the songs were actual R&B songs (not just sounds and loops) that were produced with a hip-hop feel. So how did a band's creation help to destroy itself and all other bands? ahhh i getcha. | |
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Gym Class Heroe's are in the top 40 right now and are a band so thats a start i guess [Edited 2/27/07 20:49pm] Check it out ...Shiny Toy Guns R gonna blowup VERY soon and bring melody back to music..you heard it here 1st! http://www.myspacecomment...theone.mp3 | |
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Mazerati said: dont forget the bicycle horn they use in Fergie's London Bridge
Timbaland & Missy invented THAT gimmick a few years before Fergie & will.i.am. | |
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CinisterCee said: Adisa said: As an old school hip-hop head you know that Teddy didn't "create" NJS. It was created by an R&B hip-hop band named Full Force. But I do agree that the style and street freshness of the productions did help to destroy R&B bands. Teddy was fascinating with creating sounds, which lead to his own demise as the most sought after producer of the 90's. So, sounds, not music, is what sells. What?
I get what you're saying. You could pin the blame on Full Force just as easily! My point is the org likes pointing at a genre of "rap" for being assimilated into "r&b" but won't blame Full Force, Teddy Riley, or even Bell Biv Devoe (who so obviously co-opted the styles sonically and visually). BBD? maybe. Teddy or Full Force? Hell no. I blame the DJs! That's right, I said it. The DJs are more at fault (especially DJ Kool Herc) for allowing their turntables to damn nearly replace having a live band at parties & clubs. Even Prince was smart enough to point this out to his associates at the time (during The Black Album/Lovesexy era). How in the hell were veterans of live music were suppose to compete against a rap group that use nothing more than a drum machine/sampler (MPC60), a huge vinyl collection to sample, and a microphone for their lead vocalist (The MC) to talk poetry?!? | |
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StarMon said: [b]This lil cheap mofo is the shit starter
haha i used to have one of these when i was a little kid.i gotta see if i can find it now. | |
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StarMon said: dseann said: Don't blame the synthesizer since Prince used it extensively throughout the 80's his most prolific, creative and critically acclaimed period. Even through the 90's almost all of his bass patterns were done with the keyboard backing up a drum machine. Not all of his songs mark you, but the majority of them. Naaaaaw playaa..
I am talking about the sampler on the casio sk-1 a brutha use to use to sample about 2 or 2.5 sec of a break beat or bass line of a song to loop. back in tha day a sk-1 and a tascam 4 track recorder and a drum machine a brutha could hook up a rap right quick.... It's a cheap ass Caaaaasio. Alotta rappers, dj's used these tools to make demo's back in the day. and ya probably heard this cheap mofo on one of your favorite songs.
ps. no one's blaming the Synth or Prince. Well, people call it the poor man's sampler. It is the cheapest sampler in the world. Followed by the SK-5, the second cheapest in the world. Its strength is sampling and its weakness is just about everything else. It's monophonic and has just four-note polyphony. The sampling is 8-bit PCM, 9.38kHz, giving about 1.4 seconds. It's so gritty... Also, its memory clears when turned off. Obviously it's designed as a cheap toy for consumers. This is the sort of sampler-toy you end up belching into with your friends and play burp-songs for a laugh! The keyboard uses mini plastic keys. It lacks MIDI, lacks effects, edit-ability, memory, and filtering. However there are 13 envelope shapes that can affect your sample somewhat. There is also portamento, vibrato, and chord accompaniment with the chord selector system. If you gotta make some lo-fi cheese samples then you might want to try the SK-1, after all it is very cheap! It is used by Fatboy Slim, Beck, Autechre, Portishead, Bloodhound Gang, Nine Inch Nails, Incubus and Blur. I get your point now. I expect sampling from rappers, it's what hip hop is about(the 90's....hip hop at its best). With the exception of Wyclef there really aren't any instrumentalists in that genre. What I hate is the fact that so called R&B acts now use the same lame tracks, which I'd have no problems with if they would stop calling the shit Rhythm and Blues. | |
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Mazerati said: Gym Class Heroe's are in the top 40 right now and are a band so thats a start i guess
[Edited 2/27/07 20:49pm] Yeah, but they're an Alternative Rock band. We're talking about R&B bands and how they're virtually non-existant. Of course there's a whole bunch of self-contained Alternative Rock bands. NEW WAVE FOREVER: SLAVE TO THE WAVE FROM THE CRADLE TO THE GRAVE. | |
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Adisa said: CinisterCee said: the root of R&B band erosion is Teddy Riley's creation of New Whack Swing! R&B songs made with programmed beats in the style of rap.
As an old school hip-hop head you know that Teddy didn't "create" NJS. It was created by an R&B hip-hop [b]band named Full Force.[/b] But I do agree that the style and street freshness of the productions did help to destroy R&B bands. Teddy was fascinating with creating sounds, which lead to his own demise as the most sought after producer of the 90's. So, sounds, not music, is what sells. What?
Exactly. I don't know why Teddy Riley being considered as the starter of New Jack Swing where Full Force was already doing it a year or two prior to Teddy Riley. Full Force is very underrated and very talented producers who still produces for bigger acts though but I guess that doesn't matter though they still getting paid doing what they love to do.  | |
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Mazerati said: well they better figure something out quick cuz there are only 2 hip hop albums in the top 100 on itunes
That should be a concern. People are starting to get tired of the same hip hop that been unchangable for the last seven years and even 15 and 16 years olds are now feeling the same way. | |
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Yeah, I miss stuff like The Gap Band, The Jacksons, Earth, Wind, & Fire, KC and The Sunshine Band, The Isley Brothers, The Time!
Bring shit like that back! Peace, Love, and Hair Grease! | |
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MLHJ said: Yeah, I miss stuff like The Gap Band, The Jacksons, Earth, Wind, & Fire, KC and The Sunshine Band, The Isley Brothers, The Time!
Bring shit like that back! I'm only 17 and I miss all that (even Tho I wasn't born for most of that)! Peace, Love, and Hair Grease! | |
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