SynthiaRose said:

SynthiaRose said:

A black artist doing funk isn't edgy.

theAudience said:

I got this from Okayplayer.com which has people who actually agree with this article.

Let's discuss. Because I think this guy fell on his head.


http://arts.guardian.co.u...73,00.html
Funk did this

John Harris
Friday January 5, 2007

Guardian
Farewell then, James Brown: King Dancer, Godfather of Soul and a man so important that his passing was enough to make Michael Jackson speak in a slightly deeper voice. Not that anyone will truly miss the kind of performances he put in towards the end of his life - hired hands churning out the hits while Mr Brown issued the odd encouraging shriek. But fair play: in coming up with the essential formula for funk music, he surely made a contribution to human development that could never be adequately repaid.

Or then again, perhaps not. Before writing this, I was momentarily frozen by fear of speaking ill of the dead and blaming JB for something that might not have been his fault. The feeling, thankfully, didn't linger - so, by way of backhandedly honouring his memory, let's say it loud: funk is the worst musical genre ever invented, a big old stain on Brown's CV and the cause of at least four decades of grinding misery.

This, I will allow, is less a matter of such trailblazing proto-funk Brown pieces as Papa's Got a Brand New Bag, Sex Machine and I Got the Feelin', as the ongoing nightmare of chronic indulgence and musical slop they undoubtedly spawned. If you doubt this, listen to the supposed high points of the genre: anything by the likes of Tower of Power, pre-disco Kool and the Gang, Cameo before they discovered pop music, or the woeful Ohio Players. And before anyone mentions the peak-period work of George Clinton, I say only this: hats off for the UFO, onstage fancy dress and occasional pearling tune, but did everything have to be so long? (I have a friend who saw Funkadelic in Manchester in 1975 - a six-hour performance, he says, that amounted to an experiment involving the limits of human endurance.)

All that said, funk's acme of unbearability was only reached thanks to two developments: 1) its decisive hybridisation into jazz-funk, surely as awful an invention as, say, the thumbscrews; and 2) as with so many things, its wholesale appropriation by a certain kind of white person. On the latter count, I speak on the basis of experience: though the totemically funksome technique known as slap-bass was probably the invention of the sometime Sly & the Family Stone bass man Larry Graham, I will always associate it with a teenage acquaintance named Steve. He would occasionally drop in on my mod band and borrow our bassist's instrument, using his well-trained right hand to give it the old bink-bap-dip-dup, to nobody's great benefit.

Twenty-five years later, I saw decisive proof of funk's utter evil. On a trip to Clarksdale, Mississippi - one-time home of the blues, now home to a small blues industry - a friend and I were taken on a tour of a part of town that seemed to have been suddenly deserted in around 1975, leaving empty buildings and grass growing through the cracks in the road. Though I naively assumed this was probably down to the mechanisation of the cotton industry, our guide put us right: "Funk did this," he said (really, he did), claiming that, in killing the last traces of the blues, the nightmare genre had also done for his community. Just for a moment, my mind was filled with the image of a bass player dressed up like a BacoFoil model of a partridge, standing at the top of one of the town's taller buildings and blitzing all in front of him with every miserable thwack of his thumb.
Guardian Unlimited © Guardian News and Media Limited 2007

SynthiaRose said:

Surely....I don't agree. Dig, me being in the truest form of a black rocker, funk is as much a part of rock as rock is of funk. Meaning a large part of true funk is rock. That's one thing that seperates funk from r&b, is the rock element. but funk is much larger than a musical genre. It's a spirit, which can employ itself to ANY musical genre. Many classic rock bands have employed funk into their music. Led Zeppelin, Black Sabbath (Sweet Leaf), The Stones, AC/DC (Back In Black), Pink Floyd, etc. The list goes on a mile long. Just like all of the classic funk bands all employed rock into their music. Parliament/Funkadelic, The Ohio Players, Sly and the Family Stone, The Isley Brothers, Cameo, Slave, Zapp and yes, Prince. Take bands like the Red Hot Chilli Peppers and Fishbone. Both bands employ rock and funk in their sound. Again, this list is also a mile long. Funk/rock, which is what I have always decsribed my music is really like saying blue/blue or red/red. You can't have one and not the other to some degree. The best rock has strong funk influence as does the best funk has strong rock influence. Their cut from the same cloth because their both born out of the blues. That's their origin. No denying that no matter how much u may hate the creator.

It is nowadays. Turn on the radio, all you will hear is shit hop.

MikeMatronik said:

ladygirl99 said:

I wondered what Vainandy has to say about this Mr. John Harris?

1980 to 1984 is my favorite era of Prince too. However, I see those years as funk years also, just a more modern and futuristic sounding funk (at the time) that had gotten totally away from horns and a lot of jazz resemblances. I totally prefer funk like "Head", "Let's Work", "Lady Cab Driver", "Erotic City", "D.M.S.R." , over traditional sounding funky stuff like "Get On The Boat" any day. I like Prince's funk with the horns, but I love his early funk without the horns.

blackguitaristz said:

Hi Blackguitaristz,

I'm glad you can discuss this from a musician's point of view. I'm not a musician ...I can only discuss what I like.

When you talk about hybrids ... I have no problem with rock hybrids that borrow from other than rock, as I've stated ... but the overriding sound has to be "rockish" for me to like it (like with Controversy and 1999 which you say in a subsequent post is funk. I would NEVER call that funk. A mere influence-- which I don't hear thankfully-- doesn't define those albums as funk) . If the hybrid is skewed to be more "funk" like say Clinton, I don't like it.

I don't like George Clinton. At all. Remember Atomic Dog? Hated it. Remember him messing up Graffit Bridge album ...why would you even talk about peeing in someone's cup. OK...I'm just nitpicking now.

but you're right ...I"m prejudice against funk. Don't act like hybrids are true funk. And as far as blues fathering all that music --- i know that and actually happen to like the blues.

Even the blues residue, however, can't elevate the abhorrence of funk.

It's not a thinking man's music (like jazz, classical, or even rock which I think is a deeply reflective, philosophical genre. Seriously). It's very base and only hormonal. Detestable.

Love,
Synthia.

It's not a thinking man's music (like jazz, classical, or even rock which I think is a deeply reflective, philosophical genre. Seriously). It's very base and only hormonal. Detestable.

Love,
Synthia.

funkpill said:

What it is, pill?

blackguitaristz said:

Hi Blackguitaristz,

I'm glad you can discuss this from a musician's point of view. I'm not a musician ...I can only discuss what I like.

When you talk about hybrids ... I have no problem with rock hybrids that borrow from other than rock, as I've stated ... but the overriding sound has to be "rockish" for me to like it (like with Controversy and 1999 which you say in a subsequent post is funk. I would NEVER call that funk. A mere influence-- which I don't hear thankfully-- doesn't define those albums as funk) . If the hybrid is skewed to be more "funk" like say Clinton, I don't like it.

I don't like George Clinton. At all. Remember Atomic Dog? Hated it. Remember him messing up Graffit Bridge album ...why would you even talk about peeing in someone's cup. OK...I'm just nitpicking now.

but you're right ...I"m prejudice against funk. Don't act like hybrids are true funk. And as far as blues fathering all that music --- i know that and actually happen to like the blues.

Even the blues residue, however, can't elevate the abhorrence of funk.

It's not a thinking man's music (like jazz, classical, or even rock which I think is a deeply reflective, philosophical genre. Seriously). It's very base and only hormonal. Detestable.

Love,
Synthia.
[Edited 2/20/07 9:34am]

vainandy said:

ugh! Do not insult some of my favorite songs by wrongly calling them funk. Those are ROCK hybrids .

thank you very much.

SynthiaRose said:

-----
If you think Erotic City is a rock song. I think we now realize you don't know your musical genres and to say it is not thinking's man music tells me you realy don't respect the musician's and are lost on the culture.

SynthiaRose said:

Bait much?
[Edited 2/20/07 10:49am]

SynthiaRose said:

I'm not understanding the assertion that brain = good and base instincts/hormones = detestable. If that's what you're basing your critique on, I call bullshit.

It's elitist to claim that certain types of stimulation and expression (such as mental or intellectual) are higher and better than others (such as primal or sexual).

FunkMistress said:

Funk Mistress that's exactly what I'm saying.

And yes, it is elitist.

But I do believe the intellect supercedes the carnal (carnal is very fulfillign sensually, i agree -- and couldn't live without some carnality...but it must be balanced).

The mind is the thing that separates humans from lower animals.

The more humans evolve, I believe, the more they should think.

I think all art should be driven by concept ...
not just base motions and trying to feel good or have a good groove.

SynthiaRose said:

SynthiaRose said:

Also, you must be joking about music deteriorating the farthest it gets from funk and disco.

However it's buried in an undeveloped, myopic presentation.

laurarichardson said:

Twenty-five years later, I saw decisive proof of funk's utter evil. On a trip to Clarksdale, Mississippi - one-time home of the blues, now home to a small blues industry - a friend and I were taken on a tour of a part of town that seemed to have been suddenly deserted in around 1975, leaving empty buildings and grass growing through the cracks in the road. Though I naively assumed this was probably down to the mechanisation of the cotton industry, our guide put us right: "Funk did this," he said (really, he did), claiming that, in killing the last traces of the blues, the nightmare genre had also done for his community.

Maybe it does some have truth in it in the sense that there's probably no other genre of music where the amount of really good artists / bands that stand out artistically and as songwriters is as small.

blackguitaristz said:

Hi Blackguitaristz,

I'm glad you can discuss this from a musician's point of view. I'm not a musician ...I can only discuss what I like.

When you talk about hybrids ... I have no problem with rock hybrids that borrow from other than rock, as I've stated ... but the overriding sound has to be "rockish" for me to like it (like with Controversy and 1999 which you say in a subsequent post is funk. I would NEVER call that funk. A mere influence-- which I don't hear thankfully-- doesn't define those albums as funk) . If the hybrid is skewed to be more "funk" like say Clinton, I don't like it.

I don't like George Clinton. At all. Remember Atomic Dog? Hated it. Remember him messing up Graffit Bridge album ...why would you even talk about peeing in someone's cup. OK...I'm just nitpicking now.

but you're right ...I"m prejudice against funk. Don't act like hybrids are true funk. And as far as blues fathering all that music --- i know that and actually happen to like the blues.

Even the blues residue, however, can't elevate the abhorrence of funk.

It's not a thinking man's music (like jazz, classical, or even rock which I think is a deeply reflective, philosophical genre. Seriously). It's very base and only hormonal. Detestable.

Love,
Synthia.
[Edited 2/20/07 9:34am]

...

theAudience said:

Really! In fact, myopic might be an understatement. Anyone could arguably make the case that ANY music form is dead now. Sure it's been watered down over the years. But I sure don't want to bring up all of the examples the bland tired, unimaginative examples of what passes for Rock, Pop, Blues, and Hip-Hop these days....You have untold so-called "rock" bands showing up on Conan or Carson Daly on any given night, armed with that "Three Chords and the Truth" stuff...but IMO, you shouldn't dismiss the entire genre because of it...

Ultimately, if he claims that Funk is bad because he doesn't get it, or hates the sound, or doesn't find it interesting...that's a personal issue....whether or not Clinton's Funk "goes on too long" just depends on who's listening...some people think Mozart played "Too Many Notes" . If you don't like a style of music that's fine. But it's a personal opinion. You can't tell other people who love the music that it's "unbearable".

Now, I do happen to love Tower Of Power , pre-diso Kool and the Gang, George Clinton, AND The supposedly "woeful" Ohio Players and I'm sure the writer of that piece can't arrange like Bernie Worrell. But I wouldn't try to convince him that he should like it. he can go listen to Celine Dion for all I care...






...

SynthiaRose said:

Hmmm,...I seriously sense this to be a "bait" thread,. But I'll respond to this comment. I'm not "acting like" hybrids are true funk. I'm stating a fact. Funk isn't just funk. There are different elements that make up funk. Just like there are different elements that make up rock. It's an amalgam. A mixture. That's why I named one of my bands Amalgam, because that's what I've always written. Hybrid music. Again, to not like Clinton is your thang, not ours. For whatever the reason. Obviously u know very little of Funkadelic simply by your mentioning of Atomic Dog. The very things u claim to adore in P's music are the same things that are in artists u claim to detest. When P plays funk, in your mind, it's not funk, it's a "hybrid with heavy rock leanings". That shit, in the words of a very dated Tommy Lee "is WHACK!".

I guess there's a few exceptions, though .. a song like "Burn Rubber On Me" by the Gap Band, for example, is still pretty tolerable, even enjoyable.

If you asked someone to name quintessential funk, no one would name the Prince songs I've mentioned in this thread.

I've already admitted I have no idea who or what Funkadelic is.

squiddyren said:

I'll say! That is my jam!


I would. "D.M.S.R." might possibly be the funkiest song Prince ever did. It sounds like you're trying to pigeonhole funk. Do you skip all the funky songs on Stevie Wonder records?


And that's why people think you're baiting. You like rock hybrids and Prince's funk/rock songs, but you know absolutely nothing about the quintessential funk/rock band? You say you don't like George Clinton "at all," but you've never even heard of his most famous band? Ever heard of the other one? Parliament? Imagine someone going on and on about loving the British Invasion and then mentioning they've never heard of the Beatles. Really, that's what it's like.