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PrintableImago said: evenstar3 said: i love Only, and some other songs from WT, but IMO The Fragile's far better.  I'm shocked people like the Fragile so much. To me it was a major let down. Other than a few tracks, it might as well have been recorded by Stabbing Westward or something. It really sounded (At least to me) like a guy who had run out of ideas and steam. He creates "Pretty Hate Machine"--a great pop album with electro influences from Ministry and Skinny Puppy, then another great Ministry-sounding pop effort "Broken" (still my favorite NIN album), it's horrible mix album "Fixed", to arrive at a very entertaining "The Downward Spiral"--Ministry, Skinny Puppy, meet David Bowie. But with "The Fragile" it seems like he was doing a "Downward Sprial II", but trying to avoid making it sound like Spiral. I'm not sure what it was about the Fragile I didn't like, but I was really relieved when with Teeth largely went back to embracing a more energetic pop savvy sound. At Reznor's core, musically he's a pop composer that uses electro aesthetics as his backdrop, much like KMFDM--great singalong tunes. At his "conceptual core" he's trying to be the story teller Bowie is, or the Pink Floyd folks where with their concept albums. Sometimes he succeeds with this combination a bit (Downward Spiral), but sometimes he falters (Fragile).
Just my opinion of course. I'll give him one thing. Back when I was worshiping the guy (1990 - 1995), I never thought he'd stay in the limelight as long as he has. [Edited 2/24/07 14:54pm] oh fuck off, this thread isn't about TR's music anymore. 
(I think I'm that way because I heard most of NIN within a few weeks and didn't have any preconceived ideas about it, versus people who've been following him for years. )[Edited 2/24/07 15:03pm] | |
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Spookymuffin said: evenstar3 said: and then i could have him all for myself!  I'd get off to watching you fuck him. | |
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Imago said: evenstar3 said: i love Only, and some other songs from WT, but IMO The Fragile's far better. I'm shocked people like the Fragile so much. To me it was a major let down. Other than a few tracks, it might as well have been recorded by Stabbing Westward or something. It really sounded (At least to me) like a guy who had run out of ideas and steam. He creates "Pretty Hate Machine"--a great pop album with electro influences from Ministry and Skinny Puppy, then another great Ministry-sounding pop effort "Broken" (still my favorite NIN album), it's horrible mix album "Fixed", to arrive at a very entertaining "The Downward Spiral"--Ministry, Skinny Puppy, meet David Bowie. But with "The Fragile" it seems like he was doing a "Downward Sprial II", but trying to avoid making it sound like Spiral. I'm not sure what it was about the Fragile I didn't like, but I was really relieved when with Teeth largely went back to embracing a more energetic pop savvy sound. At Reznor's core, musically he's a pop composer that uses electro aesthetics as his backdrop, much like KMFDM--great singalong tunes. At his "conceptual core" he's trying to be the story teller Bowie is, or the Pink Floyd folks where with their concept albums. Sometimes he succeeds with this combination a bit (Downward Spiral), but sometimes he falters (Fragile).
Just my opinion of course. I'll give him one thing. Back when I was worshiping the guy (1990 - 1995), I never thought he'd stay in the limelight as long as he has. [Edited 2/24/07 14:54pm] You went into the Fragile with the wrong opinion. 
Trent was trying to do the perfect follow up to the Downward Spiral, but it evolved and moved away from that. I think it's a far deeper, more coherant album than the others...that is until I heard Year Zero which sounds like something truly amazing. Obviously all imho...but it genuinely shocks me that you don't like TF - like...no fan doesn't like TF! | |
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Spookymuffin said: Imago said: I'm shocked people like the Fragile so much. To me it was a major let down. Other than a few tracks, it might as well have been recorded by Stabbing Westward or something. It really sounded (At least to me) like a guy who had run out of ideas and steam. He creates "Pretty Hate Machine"--a great pop album with electro influences from Ministry and Skinny Puppy, then another great Ministry-sounding pop effort "Broken" (still my favorite NIN album), it's horrible mix album "Fixed", to arrive at a very entertaining "The Downward Spiral"--Ministry, Skinny Puppy, meet David Bowie. But with "The Fragile" it seems like he was doing a "Downward Sprial II", but trying to avoid making it sound like Spiral. I'm not sure what it was about the Fragile I didn't like, but I was really relieved when with Teeth largely went back to embracing a more energetic pop savvy sound. At Reznor's core, musically he's a pop composer that uses electro aesthetics as his backdrop, much like KMFDM--great singalong tunes. At his "conceptual core" he's trying to be the story teller Bowie is, or the Pink Floyd folks where with their concept albums. Sometimes he succeeds with this combination a bit (Downward Spiral), but sometimes he falters (Fragile).
Just my opinion of course. I'll give him one thing. Back when I was worshiping the guy (1990 - 1995), I never thought he'd stay in the limelight as long as he has. [Edited 2/24/07 14:54pm] You went into the Fragile with the wrong opinion.
Trent was trying to do the perfect follow up to the Downward Spiral, but it evolved and moved away from that. I think it's a far deeper, more coherent album than the others...that is until I heard Year Zero which sounds like something truly amazing. Obviously all imho...but it genuinely shocks me that you don't like TF - like...no fan doesn't like TF! The Fragile is my least favorite of his albums and the only one that I was never able to sit through without skipping tracks. It's not that I went in with the opinion that it would suck. I was actually expecting something different. Something "more mature", which in some respects the Fragile attempts to be. I just wasn't expecting it to bore me. One of the reasons I like Sign of The Times is because it's a chaotic mess, and I disliked Emancipation on first listening is it was 3 hours of the same syrupy songs, just set to different tempos. The Fragile is far tighter than the other albums, but this doesn't work well for it in "my" opinion. It just goes on and on far too long, and the journey he takes me on just felt played out already. I really wasn't trying to sound insulting when I said it, but I kept thinking "Stabbing Westward" during my first listening of the album. I'd probably say on the entire album, about 5 songs catch my ear. True, he shifts gears throughout the album, but there's an onward march that just feels like it leads to nowhere.
It's kind of like New Power Soul--that album was very tightly put together, but dead to me anyway. I would never say TF is Trent's version of NPS though. It's just not his "Sign of the Times". But the Fragile is also the first NIN album that I wasn't able to see a performance early on. His concerts are often theatrical in nature and you get a deeper feeling for what he's trying to convey by attending them. I've heard some tracks from the new album and I think they're o.k. I like the vibe on them. Hopefully it'll grow on me. Either way, he's got a few albums left in him yet.
It-to-TF-clarification [Edited 2/24/07 20:01pm] | |
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Imago said: The Fragile is my least favorite of his albums and the only one that I was never able to sit through without skipping tracks.
It's not that I went in with the opinion that it would suck. I was actually expecting something different. Something "more mature", which in some respects the Fragile attempts to be. I just wasn't expecting it to bore me. One of the reasons I like Sign of The Times is because it's a chaotic mess, and I disliked Emancipation on first listening is it was 3 hours of the same syrupy songs, just set to different tempos. The Fragile is far tighter than the other albums, but this doesn't work well for it in "my" opinion. It just goes on and on far too long, and the journey he takes me on just felt played out already. I really wasn't trying to sound insulting when I said it, but I kept thinking "Stabbing Westward" during my first listening of the album. I'd probably say on the entire album, about 5 songs catch my ear. True, he shifts gears throughout the album, but there's an onward march that just feels like it leads to nowhere.
It's kind of like New Power Soul--that album was very tightly put together, but dead to me anyway. I would never say TF is Trent's version of NPS though. It's just not his "Sign of the Times". But the Fragile is also the first NIN album that I wasn't able to see a performance early on. His concerts are often theatrical in nature and you get a deeper feeling for what he's trying to convey by attending them. I've heard some tracks from the new album and I think they're o.k. I like the vibe on them. Hopefully it'll grow on me. Either way, he's got a few albums left in him yet.
It-to-TF-clarification [Edited 2/24/07 20:01pm] With the exception of the comment on the album being 'tight', I agree with Dan on this one, I'm afraid. It was an admirable vision, I just don't think it was all he wanted it to be, and the fans hoped it would be. Much like the Smashing Pumkins 'Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness' there are some fantastic songs on there (for example my single disc version would have been: Somewhat Damaged, We're in This Together, The Frail/The Wretched, Into The Void, The Great Below, Starfuckers, Inc, The Fragile, I'm Looking Forward to Joining You, Finally, & The Big Come Down. But I'm not Trent Reznor so....) Unfortunately it comes across as convoluted and just collapses under it's own weight. It's far too sprawling - there is no sense of cohesion like other NIN albums, and I think Trent would be the first to admit this considering that the album was delayed for sometime because even he couldn't get the sequencing right and eventually had to bring in Bob Ezrin to try and find some flow amongst it all. Again, (like the previously mentioned Pumpkins album) if it had been one disc instead of two, it would have been nothing short of stellar. These things said, I adored the album design and artwork, (David Carson is a genius) and I'd love to get my hands on his limited edition book that came out around that time. I think he wanted to give the fans something special, and I do think it was an admirable try, but hey - nobodies perfect, admirable try though it was. And I say this with utmost respect to Trent, having been a NIN fan since 1989. The marketing was shockingly bad and the record company should damned well be ashamed of themselves for abandoning it like they did one week after its release. That certainly didn't help matters. 10 out of 10 for effort, but it's easily the one NIN album I listen to the least by far. | |
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The Hammer Speaks
Thus Spoke Zarathustra, III: On Old and New Tablets, 29. "Why so hard?" the kitchen coal once said to the diamond. "After all, are we not close kin?" Why so soft? O my brothers, thus I ask you: are you not after all my brothers? Why so soft, so pliant and yielding? Why is there so much denial, self-denial, in your hearts? So little destiny in your eyes? And if you do not want to be destinies and inexorable ones, how can you one day triumph with me? And if your hardness does not wish to flash and cut through, how can you one day create with me? For all creators are hard. And it must seem blessedness to you to impress your hand on millennia as on wax. Blessedness to write on the will of millennia as on bronze—harder than bronze, nobler than bronze. Only the noblest is altogether hard. This new tablet, O my brothers, I place over you: Become hard! — —  | |
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I haven't given The Fragile another shot since I got it last Christmas, but I definitely will today considering I just experienced the thrill of TDS all over again yesterday and just HAVE to hear its sequel.
That being said... Imago said: the journey he takes me on just felt played out already.
... how can the journey be played out when it's more of one of self-recovery and actually shows glimmers of optimism, a contrast to all his previous works?  | |
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squiddyren said: I haven't given The Fragile another shot since I got it last Christmas, but I definitely will today considering I just experienced the thrill of TDS all over again yesterday and just HAVE to hear its sequel.
That being said... Imago said: the journey he takes me on just felt played out already.
... how can the journey be played out when it's more of one of self-recovery and actually shows glimmers of optimism, a contrast to all his previous works? I didn't say it *was* played out. I said it felt played out. Again, the problem with TF is not the intent or themes--it's the execution of them.If he'd taken half the songs and just made them part of one of his many robust b-side/follow up mix CDs, it would have been, to quote nana, stellar. | |
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Imago said: Spookymuffin said: You went into the Fragile with the wrong opinion.
Trent was trying to do the perfect follow up to the Downward Spiral, but it evolved and moved away from that. I think it's a far deeper, more coherent album than the others...that is until I heard Year Zero which sounds like something truly amazing. Obviously all imho...but it genuinely shocks me that you don't like TF - like...no fan doesn't like TF! The Fragile is my least favorite of his albums and the only one that I was never able to sit through without skipping tracks. It's not that I went in with the opinion that it would suck. I was actually expecting something different. Something "more mature", which in some respects the Fragile attempts to be. I just wasn't expecting it to bore me. One of the reasons I like Sign of The Times is because it's a chaotic mess, and I disliked Emancipation on first listening is it was 3 hours of the same syrupy songs, just set to different tempos. The Fragile is far tighter than the other albums, but this doesn't work well for it in "my" opinion. It just goes on and on far too long, and the journey he takes me on just felt played out already. I really wasn't trying to sound insulting when I said it, but I kept thinking "Stabbing Westward" during my first listening of the album. I'd probably say on the entire album, about 5 songs catch my ear. True, he shifts gears throughout the album, but there's an onward march that just feels like it leads to nowhere.
It's kind of like New Power Soul--that album was very tightly put together, but dead to me anyway. I would never say TF is Trent's version of NPS though. It's just not his "Sign of the Times". But the Fragile is also the first NIN album that I wasn't able to see a performance early on. His concerts are often theatrical in nature and you get a deeper feeling for what he's trying to convey by attending them. I've heard some tracks from the new album and I think they're o.k. I like the vibe on them. Hopefully it'll grow on me. Either way, he's got a few albums left in him yet.
It-to-TF-clarification [Edited 2/24/07 20:01pm] Really interesting... The Fragile is the album I listen to the most. I have a playlist called "fragile era" which is every fragile track, unreleased demo and fragile-related tidbit I can find. I love the vibe on it. It's also interesting because over on echoingthesound.org The Fragile is considered his best, next to TDS. I consider With_Teeth, whilst great fun, his worst - there's no depth, no linking, no theme - just good music but very...normal. To be honest, I love almost all releases, but With_Teeth the best, and TDS the most. It's interesting that NIN's publicly considered "best" album, TDS, is actually considered his best by the fans too - a lot of artists don't acheive that - look at Prince, PR is considered his best, but we all though that's far from the truth. | |
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Imago said: I didn't say it *was* played out. I said it felt played out. Again, the problem with TF is not the intent or themes--it's the execution of them.If he'd taken half the songs and just made them part of one of his many robust b-side/follow up mix CDs, it would have been, to quote nana, stellar.
Got'cha. | |
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http://yearzero.nin.com/
"In This Twilight" is going to leak tonight! 
Those damn Mancunians had better check the fucking bathroom!
http://www.echoingthesoun...hp?t=20705 | |
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 | |
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Spookymuffin said: http://yearzero.nin.com/
"In This Twilight" is going to leak tonight!
Those damn Mancunians had better check the fucking bathroom!
http://www.echoingthesoun...hp?t=20705 Awesome! | |
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Oh yes, and I just finished The Fragile.
Choppy thematic flow? Maybe. Stronger first disc? Without a doubt. Trent's definitive work as a composer and eclectic craftsman? Sorry, folks, but absolutely.  | |
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so someone's FOUND the flash drive but hasn't uploaded it yet apparently?!  MUST HAVE SONG!! | |
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evenstar3 said: so someone's FOUND the flash drive but hasn't uploaded it yet apparently?!
MUST HAVE SONG!! I can't wait!
Plus I have Spiral tickets to the NIN show on Thursday in Brixton - I might get to meet Trent and have the Year Zero sound listening part thing! OH MY GOD I'M LITERALLY ORGASMING! | |
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Spookymuffin said: evenstar3 said: so someone's FOUND the flash drive but hasn't uploaded it yet apparently?!
MUST HAVE SONG!! I can't wait!
Plus I have Spiral tickets to the NIN show on Thursday in Brixton - I might get to meet Trent and have the Year Zero sound listening part thing! OH MY GOD I'M LITERALLY ORGASMING! you are SO DAMN LUCKY.  | |
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squiddyren said: Oh yes, and I just finished The Fragile.
Choppy thematic flow? Maybe. Stronger first disc? Without a doubt. Trent's definitive work as a composer and eclectic craftsman? Sorry, folks, but absolutely. Fuck yeah! 
Now watch it grow on you! | |
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evenstar3 said: Spookymuffin said: I can't wait!
Plus I have Spiral tickets to the NIN show on Thursday in Brixton - I might get to meet Trent and have the Year Zero sound listening part thing! OH MY GOD I'M LITERALLY ORGASMING! you are SO DAMN LUCKY.  I am so excited! | |
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novabrkr said: evenstar3 said: care to elaborate?  Well not really. People on these kind of forums think Nine Inch Nails is somehow an original band that is somehow "off the mainstream", so I'm just leaving it there. But by even his questionable standards, this is utter garbage. Reminds me of some of his recent copycats like Dismantled. Only it somehow actually manages to be worse.  I knew you had something to say  NIN has been mainstream for years. I remember being a lot younger in the mid 90's and thinking they were as hardcore as it gets. Now it seems like everybody and their grandma likes Trent & Co. I think it gets under the skin of hardcore fans who've followed Trent pre-NIN era. You're not one of those fans are you? I do like PHM and Downward Spiral.....and a handful of songs from Fragile though. looking for you in the woods tonight Switch FC SW-2874-2863-4789 (Rum&Coke) | |
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Spookymuffin said: evenstar3 said: you are SO DAMN LUCKY. I am so excited!i'm gonna be insanely jealous of you foreevveerrr  | |
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AnckSuNamun said: novabrkr said: Well not really. People on these kind of forums think Nine Inch Nails is somehow an original band that is somehow "off the mainstream", so I'm just leaving it there. But by even his questionable standards, this is utter garbage. Reminds me of some of his recent copycats like Dismantled. Only it somehow actually manages to be worse. I knew you had something to say NIN has been mainstream for years. I remember being a lot younger in the mid 90's and thinking they were as hardcore as it gets. Now it seems like everybody and their grandma likes Trent & Co. I think it gets under the skin of hardcore fans who've followed Trent pre-NIN era. You're not one of those fans are you? I do like PHM and Downward Spiral.....and a handful of songs from Fragile though.I think it's stupid to hate music because it's mainstream, to be honest. If you like it, you like it! Accept it and enjoy it! Now, novabrkr may hay nin, in which case he can - but if you like nin but just don't listen to it because it's mainstream...that's just stupid. I always knew NIN were mainstream...I like them because I think they're fucking awesome! | |
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Apparently another track will leak today!!!!
I love this hype, it's amazing! I wish I'd bought live tickets now when I saw them in NME.  Este sitio está moriendo de una maldad que no se puede ver ni comprender. | |
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PreacherMan said: Apparently another track will leak today!!!!
I love this hype, it's amazing! I wish I'd bought live tickets now when I saw them in NME. So how many songs have leaked thus far? And which ones? I've been trying tp keep up but man not doing such a great job, I think.  Fantasy is reality in the world today. But I'll keep hangin in there, that is the only way. | |
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Bfunkthe1 said: PreacherMan said: Apparently another track will leak today!!!!
I love this hype, it's amazing! I wish I'd bought live tickets now when I saw them in NME. So how many songs have leaked thus far? And which ones? I've been trying tp keep up but man not doing such a great job, I think. all the leaked songs (Survivalism, My Violent Heart, & Me, I'm Not) are on their myspace now.  | |
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evenstar3 said: Bfunkthe1 said: So how many songs have leaked thus far? And which ones? I've been trying tp keep up but man not doing such a great job, I think. all the leaked songs (Survivalism, My Violent Heart, & Me, I'm Not) are on their myspace now. Cool. I'm current. Thanks. BTW, I'm really diggin the new stuff. It's already musically more interesting than With Teeth IMO. Don't get me wrong, I like Teeth, I just found it a bit boring musically for NIN. And I'll still planning on buying new live DVD this week so it's all good. Fantasy is reality in the world today. But I'll keep hangin in there, that is the only way. | |
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My violent heart is ace | |
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FINALLY. In This Twilight's leaked. amazing. 
http://www.symphonyofnois.../yearzero/ http://www.echoingthesoun...hp?t=20724 [Edited 2/25/07 17:44pm] | |
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Ok, I'm downloading 'Survivalism'. This will be the first NIN song I've ever heard in full (I've heard part of one track before ), unless it sucks of course, in which case I'll likely not get past the first minute. I'm coming into this with an open mind though. | |
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Fauxie said: Ok, I'm downloading 'Survivalism'. This will be the first NIN song I've ever heard in full (I've heard part of one track before
), unless it sucks of course, in which case I'll likely not get past the first minute. I'm coming into this with an open mind though. Them thars fightin' words boy 
(Best leak so far is 'Me, I'm Not' - downloading 'In This Twilght' as I type...) | |
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