I'm an so maxing on late 20th century classical music

Henry Cowell
Harry Partch
Samuel Barber
Marc Blitzstein
Aaron Copland
Virgil Thomson
Ben Weber
John Cage
Alwin Nikolais




Does ANYBODY have anything to say about this? Are you familiar with or have a taste for any of these composers of late 20th century classical music?

Do you know what a prepared piano is?????


[Edited 1/13/07 19:26pm]

Only academically, but yeah.

CinisterCee said:

you mean you only experienced them in college and then turned your back on them forever since?

heartbeatocean said:

haha more or less

you up in the crib relaxin to prepared piano pieces??

CinisterCee said:

sosgemini said:

"Adagio For Strings" is that PFFFF !!

prepared piano

I just learned something new. Anyone hear of a tack piano?

The tack piano is a permanently altered version of an ordinary piano, in which tacks or nails are placed on the hammers of the instrument at the point where the hammers hit the strings, giving the instrument a tinny, more percussive sound. Perhaps this preparation attempts to emulate the sound of a poorly maintained piano: as the felt hammers age and compact through use they become hard and cause the piano to yield a similar sound.

In popular music, Elvis Costello used a tack piano on two songs on the album Mighty Like a Rose: "The Other Side of Summer" and "So Like Candy," which was co-written with Sir Paul McCartney.

-wikepedia

these guys are so punk

It's not punk if you do it with a million dollar budget.

heartbeatocean said:

Bells For Her

GangstaFam said:

I LOVE THAT SONG! AND THAT SOUND!

Do you know what objects she put in her piano?

novabrkr said:

What exactly are you talking about?

heartbeatocean said:

Academic experimentalists had the financial backing of extremely wealthy cultural institutions, and they all came from really wealthy families.
While the people who were making similar musical experiments outside the orchestral music canon did it with as little money as possible (and mind you, never were recognized for their efforts). The latter is punk, the former isn't.

heartbeatocean said:

erm...Gavin Bryar's Jesus' Blood Never Failed me yet is one of my favourite pieces of music of all time, and I've loved the odd bit of Phil Glass and Steve Reich over the years if they qualify. Classical music of any era has never really stayed on my radar for very long, but if it's ugly and caustic I'll probably like it.

novabrkr said:

I actually don't subscribe to orthodox definitions of punk. I wasn't saying they were punk rock in terms of a bunch of working class youth who grew up in Queens and only played three chord arrangements on instruments they had never learned to play.

I was meaning it in terms of intellectually ripping up boundaries and going against the established credo of what was considered classical music. From the point of view of the classical establishment, they could be considered quite punk.

Maybe they all came from wealthy families, but your idea that they had "million dollar budgets" is spurious to me. LOL as if there are millions of dollars dripping off trees for experimental composers!!!!! I don't have time to go into it, but I'm sure your generalization could be disproven in many instances, as could your theory that punk rock artists "never got recognized for their efforts". Basically, your statements reveal a prejudice against one type of music/composer over another.

damosuzuki said:

I wouldn't call the particular compilation I have of the above folks as sounding ugly and caustic. It's actually quite lilting and soothing at moments. But what I do like about it is the unorthodox approach to melody, sound and instrument mix which includes a healthy dose of DISSONANCE...which seems to feed my hunger. I've heard much more ugly and caustic classical music too and I love it. And I'm not just saying that.

Actually, Nova, I saw a show recently on Aaron Copeland, that he composed music during the Depression. He was on the verge of poverty the whole time and only survived by having a teaching job, not by earning anything off his compositions. Only later, did he become more successful.

If you look at the history of classical music as a whole, there have been plenty of unrecognized, impoverished composers who were not recognized until long after their death or at all. It has not always been a genre for the elite, or even if it was, the composers often did not benefit, especially composers going against the mainstream.

heartbeatocean said:

Punk is a rather nebulous term, I suppose, but I think adventurousness is a better measure rather than class-warfare standards.

heartbeatocean said:

Yeah, making a piece for four helicopters must be really cheap to execute.

And most of this music was still performed in concert halls nevertheless, experimental musicians from the other end of the spectrum were performing where they could. They still are.



Who the f*ck was referring to "punk rock artists"? I was just saying that there's nothing "punk" about those over-privileged people, as opposed perhaps to the avant-gardist of other traditions of modern art in the 20th Century.



Well, certainly that's a right description of my attitude. However, I've known enough people in the academic music circles that however do not even know of the existence of experimental music outside the academic canon (and I'm not referring to experimental rock music). To quote one lady: "I didn't know there was so much more to this kind of music, but I don't desire to listen to those records anyway."

Yep. I'm dumping shit on you based on my experiences with other people. I'm not always a nice person.

damosuzuki said:

And a lot of it could be considered much more radical than classic punk rock. Take John Cage's 4:33 which involved forcing a classically-attuned audience to sit through 4 minutes and 33 seconds of a piano composition with no piano sounds replete with tuxedo, grand piano, and score. It was making a mockery of the audience and the sacred cow of music itself.

damosuzuki said:

No. That's exactly what "punk" means. The other words are "avant-garde" and "experimental", they can be rebellious but in a different sense.

Of course, this really is not a big deal.

novabrkr said:

novabrkr said:

I was using punk as a loose term, because I like using it in different contexts to make a point. I think punk is a free word to make we want of it. See? I'm pushing the boundaries of language now.

So...would my effort be considered "punk" or "avant-garde"?

novabrkr said:

Well, some viewed the original punk movement as a class movement, but I don't think that holds up to close scrutiny - particularly when you consider that many of the participants of the scene that popularized the term on both sides of the ocean were the results of middle and upper class art school educations.

Of course - just pleasant Saturday afternoon time-passing...
[Edited 1/13/07 11:58am]

I'm actually surprised this thread has led to such a debate! I thought it might just sink!

Another tidbit of interest: all the above composers are gay.

Does that lend any credibility to their punk status?

heartbeatocean said:

Absolutely.

novabrkr said:

The original meaning of the word, as far as I know:

Punk: A passive male homosexual, a catamite; a tramp's young companion or 'gunsel'


http://xroads.virginia.ed...tions.html

novabrkr said:

Seriously?