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PrintableMoonbeam said: I disagree wholeheartedly. I found and still find All for You to be a fresh, fun album. It's my 2nd favorite even though it gets trashed here.
The only problem I ever had with All For You was the fact that it had TOO many slow jams. | |
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sallysassalot said: jayaredee said: How long before everyone retaliates with Madonna comparisons   madonna was smart enough to use the right mediums. yeah, she's been vulgar or sexually provocative on tv...but on cable or late night. madonna would never be so stupid as to go on the super bowl, the most watched sporting event of the year and one where all of middle america is watching, and show her tit. personally, i think dropping race is a reason in this is case is a lame excuse. there are times when people have to take responsibility for bad decisions. this is one of those times. [Edited 12/30/06 8:17am] 1. ....but Madonna would be bold (or stupid) enough to hang on a cross on prime-time TV (even if it's censor is beside the point, the fact that she did it at all is controversial enough). 2. No only does racism continues to play a factor in our everyday life in America, but you can also add "ageism" as well. Why? Because Justin is still in his 20's and therefore, it's well understandable (according to society) that he will make dumb mistakes. But if 40' somethings like Janet, Madonna, Prince, or Michael were to make immature dumb decisions, then every critic within the media would waste no time in delivering negative criticism. | |
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wonder505 said: Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't the first downturn, if that's what you call it, started with Velvet Rope? I recall sales being slow at the start, and their were negative reviews from early shows at the start of the tour. I remember Janet admitting to it and that she changed up things in the show to make it better.
I assume you're referring to sales. It was a slow starter and only amped up after Together Again hit and it sold about 9 million worldwide, which was about half of what janet. sold. Even though it received better reviews than janet. Go figure
I suppose you have this woman who has been doing pop music for the past 10 years come back with the afrocentric Got Til It's Gone video and no one knew what to make of it. People talk about All For You pissing off fans, well The Velvet Rope REALLY pissed them off because they didn't know or understand what she was doing. It's only in retrospect that her fanbase seems to approve of that album. [Edited 12/30/06 14:45pm] | |
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Harlepolis said: Fuck all that beating around the bush,,,,,a BLACK NIPPLE on AmeriKKKa's real ugly racist mug is what REALLY killed Janet's career.
And like the last time I said it, folks will try their LAST BREATH to prove otherwise I agree.If Madonna did the nipple thing,people would have just blown it off as "that Madonna was at it again at the Superbowl,she's such a rebel"  larry luvlife
http://www.myspace.com/larryluvlife | |
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larryluvlife said: Harlepolis said: Fuck all that beating around the bush,,,,,a BLACK NIPPLE on AmeriKKKa's real ugly racist mug is what REALLY killed Janet's career.
And like the last time I said it, folks will try their LAST BREATH to prove otherwise I agree.If Madonna did the nipple thing,people would have just blown it off as "that Madonna was at it again at the Superbowl,she's such a rebel" I don't agree with that. The same thing happened with Justify My Love and it was just as big a controversy. Why am I even participating in this neverending debate? | |
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Time 4 some mikematronik photowhoring interlude:
notice on how All for you is carefully hidden and that janet. is...make some bum love to the album... [Edited 12/30/06 17:20pm] | |
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the All For You album was mediocre..too much moaning and whispering for me...but the tour was pretty successful.
janet has to get out of this oversexed mode she's been in since The Velvet Rope. It's one thing to be sexy and provocative, but it seems forced and unnatural. It's ironic, I say this on a site dedicated to a Prince who was/is sex on legs...  [Edited 12/30/06 18:07pm] | |
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sosgemini said: VoicesCarry said: Yes, you're absolutely right, there is a big difference. I still find it ridiculous that this became THE major issue in America, and that Janet's career was sacrificed while Justin's wasn't. It says a lot. but part of the blame also lies in how "Janet" reacted afterwards...her phony interviews and lack of repentance is just as much to blame as the media backlash. and mtv not playing her could just as much have to do with them getting revenge on an artist who crossed the line on their dime... I agree....it took her until Tuesday after the superbowl to release a video apology, or statement... As the more "veteran" performer of the two, I expected her to be in front of the press immediately, if it was TRULY an accident... Justin's career can go on, because even if he didn't mean it, he apologized the next day in a statement, and then again at the grammys(which was unnecessary, IMO )... but whatever... [Edited 12/30/06 18:26pm] | |
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TonyVanDam said: sallysassalot said: madonna was smart enough to use the right mediums. yeah, she's been vulgar or sexually provocative on tv...but on cable or late night. madonna would never be so stupid as to go on the super bowl, the most watched sporting event of the year and one where all of middle america is watching, and show her tit. personally, i think dropping race is a reason in this is case is a lame excuse. there are times when people have to take responsibility for bad decisions. this is one of those times. [Edited 12/30/06 8:17am] 1. ....but Madonna would be bold (or stupid) enough to hang on a cross on prime-time TV (even if it's censor is beside the point, the fact that she did it at all is controversial enough). 2. No only does racism continues to play a factor in our everyday life in America, but you can also add "ageism" as well. Why? Because Justin is still in his 20's and therefore, it's well understandable (according to society) that he will make dumb mistakes. But if 40' somethings like Janet, Madonna, Prince, or Michael were to make immature dumb decisions, then every critic within the media would waste no time in delivering negative criticism. 1. if madonna's crucifixion scene had been aired, nbc would have been in hot water. the conservative groups made sure they did some creative editing and, in the end, a less controversial show was aired. there's nothing wrong with that. if you want to see the unedited version, buy the dvd or go to the show. 2. at 40-something, these adults really should know better. i expect prince to simlte jacking off when he's in his 20's. at 40, though, he really should behave differently. the same goes for janet, justin, and anyone else. | |
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TonyVanDam said: badujunkie said: I think that's what it is.
The artistic letdown that we know as "All For You" killed her popularity. Yes it sold a few million and scored a number 1 pop hit. Another top ten. But the true fans and casual consumers who bought and listened to the full length LP were the ones who put the nail in the coffin. It sucks. Had the album not sucked as bad as it did, its subsequent tour might not have sold so poorly in many markets. Hard core fans can say what they want (I'm one of them), but she played to SEVERAL 3/4 and 1/2 full houses on that tour. That's when our girl started to really feel the sting. She and her team rush-released an album (by her standards, at least) and came up with a publicity stunt to try to re-gain interest in her. We all know what happened next...I say if "All For You" had been a solid follow up to her most brilliant (albeit slow to sell big numbers) album, "The Velvet Rope," which had a more DIVERSE ECLECTIC and ultimately URBAN sound, and not a half assed POP album trying to compete with Britney Xtina and JLo, the tour would have been a bigger success and the Superbowl/Damita Jo fiasco would have never happened. 20 Y.O. is damn good, but it was already too late. It pains me to say it as a lifelong fan, but she seems to have run her course and is now going to be forced to be a nostalgia act...she already gave her first big performance at an awards show from this era with an opening of "Pleasure Principle..." Like I said before, The Velvet Rope album was Janet's final masterpiece. Everything else after that are just a bunch of mixed bags (20 YO being the best of the 3 mix bags of course!). Thank you TonyVanDam, once and for all for making that simple point about The Velvet Rope. Aside from the controversies that surrounded the album and the fact that it was Janet's first decline in the commercial sense, I still believe it's her best creative work. It has the bold and pensive songwriting her other albums don't really have and the production values are near-high quality. In fact, I don't even think she has even got that close to topping the musical quality of Velvet Rope before and after it was released. Sure Rhythm Nation and Control are pop-soul landmarks, but Velvet Rope is really a pivotal album and it was really the last one that mattered. All For You wasn't a bad album and it has some strong moments, but the weak production and songwriting of some of the songs dragged the album down. All For You wasn't worth the 4-year hiatus, IMHO. Check me out and add me on:
www.last.fm/user/brandosoul "Truth is, everybody is going to hurt you; you just gotta find the ones worth suffering for." -Bob Marley | |
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allfor you sold over 3 mil in the states alone and her biggest first week opening ever, the single was breaking records and the tour was one of the biggest of the year...if this spells the end of a career i would love to go out like this.they didnt rush damita jo, it was 3 years after all for you, thats the average time between records for janet, if virgin was smart, which we know they are not, they should have pushed the release back until the nipplegate thing died down some.damita jo is a pretty good album imo,the backlash from the superbowl killed it more than anything else.i like a few songs on 20 y.o but i think this album is the result of jermaine dupri's ego more then janet's desire to put out a new album.its pretty clear that pop radio and mtv are not gonna support her anymore, so janet has to focus on her core fanbase, which is not the 106&park crowd that jd went after, alot of the young kids in my family like so excited but they are not gonna buy janet's album. at age 40 her days of being a multi-platinum selling artist may be over but she can still sell platinum if she makes the music and hardcore fans and her casual fans can appreciate. | |
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lowkey said: allfor you sold over 3 mil in the states alone and her biggest first week opening ever, the single was breaking records and the tour was one of the biggest of the year...if this spells the end of a career i would love to go out like this.they didnt rush damita jo, it was 3 years after all for you, thats the average time between records for janet, if virgin was smart, which we know they are not, they should have pushed the release back until the nipplegate thing died down some.damita jo is a pretty good album imo,the backlash from the superbowl killed it more than anything else.i like a few songs on 20 y.o but i think this album is the result of jermaine dupri's ego more then janet's desire to put out a new album.its pretty clear that pop radio and mtv are not gonna support her anymore, so janet has to focus on her core fanbase, which is not the 106&park crowd that jd went after, alot of the young kids in my family like so excited but they are not gonna buy janet's album. at age 40 her days of being a multi-platinum selling artist may be over but she can still sell platinum if she makes the music and hardcore fans and her casual fans can appreciate.
She will have a career as long as org threads about her have over 100 posts and 1000 views, no matter what the topic is | |
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I happened to like the cd but I find it odd that a lot of casual fans refer to the "baby making" songs from All For You a lot instead of her well know slow tracks... | |
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lowkey said: allfor you sold over 3 mil in the states alone and her biggest first week opening ever, the single was breaking records and the tour was one of the biggest of the year...if this spells the end of a career i would love to go out like this.they didnt rush damita jo, it was 3 years after all for you, thats the average time between records for janet, if virgin was smart, which we know they are not, they should have pushed the release back until the nipplegate thing died down some.damita jo is a pretty good album imo,the backlash from the superbowl killed it more than anything else.i like a few songs on 20 y.o but i think this album is the result of jermaine dupri's ego more then janet's desire to put out a new album.its pretty clear that pop radio and mtv are not gonna support her anymore, so janet has to focus on her core fanbase, which is not the 106&park crowd that jd went after, alot of the young kids in my family like so excited but they are not gonna buy janet's album. at age 40 her days of being a multi-platinum selling artist may be over but she can still sell platinum if she makes the music and hardcore fans and her casual fans can appreciate.
I agree because the 20 Y.O./Damita Jo formula might be working moderately well for some folks (like me), but i'm getting a little tired of her trying to still be young and record albums that are going to please a younger audience, so it can sell millions of copies. She needs to make a fresher comeback record because All For You, Damita Jo, and 20 Y.O. just weren't the comebacks some people were searching for. Check me out and add me on:
www.last.fm/user/brandosoul "Truth is, everybody is going to hurt you; you just gotta find the ones worth suffering for." -Bob Marley | |
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sosgemini said: Alexandernvrmind said: Well the SB probably did that more...but also she can't sing. People can see through that. Shes 40 years old still acting like shes 20...but shes actually old news. The only thing that can save her would be if she could come out with a killer song that highlights her voice.
The problem is she can't do that because she doesn't have the talent. Mary J Bliege at some point will run into the same issue. People will one day wake up and realize that when she is on that stage perfroming they are going to say...damn for real...this chick can't sing. The reason I compare Mary and Janet is because neither one of them are much when it comes to singing. Everytime Mary gets on that stage and sing I laugh at her. People also clap sometimes people even give her a standing ovation. And I'm always like ...damn did they just listen to that chick sing? Janet is a little different bcause shes a perfromer...but people still want more from her now. She has no personality, and relies totally on her T&A. Well at 40 that aint enough. Janets career is over i think Janet needs to use her love will never do intro voice more often...ya know, janet has a servicable voice...she just seems to be stuck in "baby whisper" mode...just like her brother is stuck in hiccup mode. its frustrating cause they both have such appealing vocal personalities but we rarely hear them. and mary j can sing...and sing beautifully...but live? sometimes she can be way off...maybe she is tone deaf or something...and ya know what? many folks said aretha couldn't sing when she first started... It just seem ridiculous to me to compare Mary J Bliege to Aretha Franklin. I mean its like comparing Hammer to Prince. Its ridiculous. Get Mary in a studio where you can smooth out her flat voice and shes good. Her appeal like so many rappers is based on her street cred, her ghetto appeal. Home girl made it vibe. Get Mary on stage and she sucks...she can't sing and I honestly believe she now does the over emotional crap now to divert from the fact that she sucks. It bothers people about Mary ...they want to stick up for her. Like Mary can sing!! Mary can sing! No she can't ya'll. Just listen to people who sing. Hell listen to Jennifer Hudson of Fantasia from American Idol...they can sing. Mary is a nice little ghetto package and we just accept her and say "thats my girl" or "homegirl made it" You know what I say...the truth...damn that bitch can't sing and why is she screaming like that! [Edited 12/30/06 20:45pm] Dance... Let me see you dance | |
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Let's not forget that she's the sister of a guy who has had "problems". That plus nipple-gate backed up what Mr. Paul Mooney once said -"They're like the Black Addams Family." People just got tired of the weird-ness. | |
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Let's not forget that she's the sister of a guy who has had "problems". That plus nipple-gate backed up what Mr. Paul Mooney once said -"They're like the Black Addams Family." People just got tired of the weird-ness. | |
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Pizzat said: Let's not forget that she's the sister of a guy who has had "problems". That plus nipple-gate backed up what Mr. Paul Mooney once said -"They're like the Black Addams Family." People just got tired of the weird-ness.
well Paul has a point. I remember watching her on Oprah back in the 90's and she was talking bout Coffee enemas and a pierced nipple. I thought to myself yep she's Jackson alright. The Most Important Thing In Life Is Sincerity....Once You Can Fake That, You Can Fake Anything. |
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i don't think this album sucks. i don't think it's good either. it's just very average. it's janet-by-the-numbers. trying to re-create "janet." and "The Velvet Rope" for 2001. which would have been fine if it was just an effortless place-holder until she had something better to say/do. but we got version 2.0 in 2004 and 3.0 this year. the effect has been like that of a copy of a copy of a copy of a copy of a copy. the quality begins to drop exponentially after awhile. "The world of the heterosexual is a sick and boring life. " -- Edith Massey in Female Trouble | |
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KidOmega said: i don't think this album sucks. i don't think it's good either. it's just very average. it's janet-by-the-numbers. trying to re-create "janet." and "The Velvet Rope" for 2001. which would have been fine if it was just an effortless place-holder until she had something better to say/do. but we got version 2.0 in 2004 and 3.0 this year. the effect has been like that of a copy of a copy of a copy of a copy of a copy. the quality begins to drop exponentially after awhile.
Let's just put it like this: All For You sounded like any other urban-pop joint that dropped in 2001 and 2002. It was simply a retread of the stuff she's done back in the day! Check me out and add me on:
www.last.fm/user/brandosoul "Truth is, everybody is going to hurt you; you just gotta find the ones worth suffering for." -Bob Marley | |
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Moonbeam said: I disagree wholeheartedly. I found and still find All for You to be a fresh, fun album. It's my 2nd favorite even though it gets trashed here.
Just here? I mean, I gave the last few albums a try, really, but it only made me realise that I think the tandem Janet./Velvet Rope is the best thing she ever done. The last few albums put me to sleep. To me, nothing to dance to, nothing to romance to. And my opinion of her personally, after boobgate and her skanky mag covers...  |
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HamsterHuey said: Moonbeam said: I disagree wholeheartedly. I found and still find All for You to be a fresh, fun album. It's my 2nd favorite even though it gets trashed here.
Just here? I mean, I gave the last few albums a try, really, but it only made me realise that I think the tandem Janet./Velvet Rope is the best thing she ever done. The last few albums put me to sleep. To me, nothing to dance to, nothing to romance to. And my opinion of her personally, after boobgate and her skanky mag covers... In short, dumpo the dwarf and bring back "greedy motherfucker" Renee - the creative tension'll do wonders for her. There are three sides to every story. My side, your side, and the truth. And no one is lying. Memories shared serve each one differently | |
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HamsterHuey said: Moonbeam said: I disagree wholeheartedly. I found and still find All for You to be a fresh, fun album. It's my 2nd favorite even though it gets trashed here.
Just here? I mean, I gave the last few albums a try, really, but it only made me realise that I think the tandem Janet./Velvet Rope is the best thing she ever done. The last few albums put me to sleep. To me, nothing to dance to, nothing to romance to. And my opinion of her personally, after boobgate and her skanky mag covers... Ironically it doesn't seem to have altered your personal opinion of Justin...go figure. | |
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lazycrockett said: Pizzat said: Let's not forget that she's the sister of a guy who has had "problems". That plus nipple-gate backed up what Mr. Paul Mooney once said -"They're like the Black Addams Family." People just got tired of the weird-ness.
well Paul has a point. I remember watching her on Oprah back in the 90's and she was talking bout Coffee enemas and a pierced nipple. I thought to myself yep she's Jackson alright. Yeah, the coffee enema revelation killed it for me. I bet Janet got a lot of refusals when she invited people round to hers for coffee. There are three sides to every story. My side, your side, and the truth. And no one is lying. Memories shared serve each one differently | |
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Shapeshifter said: lazycrockett said: well Paul has a point. I remember watching her on Oprah back in the 90's and she was talking bout Coffee enemas and a pierced nipple. I thought to myself yep she's Jackson alright. Yeah, the coffee enema revelation killed it for me. I bet Janet got a lot of refusals when she invited people round to hers for coffee. Starbucks takes on a whole new meaning  | |
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Alexandernvrmind said: sosgemini said: i think Janet needs to use her love will never do intro voice more often...ya know, janet has a servicable voice...she just seems to be stuck in "baby whisper" mode...just like her brother is stuck in hiccup mode. its frustrating cause they both have such appealing vocal personalities but we rarely hear them. and mary j can sing...and sing beautifully...but live? sometimes she can be way off...maybe she is tone deaf or something...and ya know what? many folks said aretha couldn't sing when she first started... It just seem ridiculous to me to compare Mary J Bliege to Aretha Franklin. I mean its like comparing Hammer to Prince. Its ridiculous. Get Mary in a studio where you can smooth out her flat voice and shes good. Her appeal like so many rappers is based on her street cred, her ghetto appeal. Home girl made it vibe. Get Mary on stage and she sucks...she can't sing and I honestly believe she now does the over emotional crap now to divert from the fact that she sucks. It bothers people about Mary ...they want to stick up for her. Like Mary can sing!! Mary can sing! No she can't ya'll. Just listen to people who sing. Hell listen to Jennifer Hudson of Fantasia from American Idol...they can sing. Mary is a nice little ghetto package and we just accept her and say "thats my girl" or "homegirl made it" You know what I say...the truth...damn that bitch can't sing and why is she screaming like that! im not comparing blidge to franklin...im just pointing out that folks used to claim franklin wasn't a good singer too...and that she was just screaming (they said the same about barbara streisand too). blidge has her own distinct style of singing...and i think many people mistake that for a lack of singing capability... Space for sale... | |
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VoicesCarry said: HamsterHuey said: Just here? I mean, I gave the last few albums a try, really, but it only made me realise that I think the tandem Janet./Velvet Rope is the best thing she ever done. The last few albums put me to sleep. To me, nothing to dance to, nothing to romance to. And my opinion of her personally, after boobgate and her skanky mag covers... Ironically it doesn't seem to have altered your personal opinion of Justin...go figure. He's been a posterboy from moment one, common. Janet used to get by by making great music and moving into a somewhat more adult audience, away from teeny bop. And Justin actually made two great HIT records in a row. Go figure. With GOOD songs on them. |
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HamsterHuey said: VoicesCarry said: Ironically it doesn't seem to have altered your personal opinion of Justin...go figure. He's been a posterboy from moment one, common. Janet used to get by by making great music and moving into a somewhat more adult audience, away from teeny bop. And Justin actually made two great HIT records in a row. Go figure. With GOOD songs on them. So Janet's behaviour would be justified if she made what you felt were good records? And they'd have to be successful, of course. [Edited 12/31/06 7:17am] | |
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VoicesCarry said: HamsterHuey said: He's been a posterboy from moment one, common. Janet used to get by by making great music and moving into a somewhat more adult audience, away from teeny bop. And Justin actually made two great HIT records in a row. Go figure. With GOOD songs on them. So Janet's behaviour would be justified if she made what you felt were good records? And they'd have to be successful, of course. Yeah, let's be honest. Women are judged differently than men. Women are ho's, men are tuf when frolinkin' around scantily clad.
I never minded Janet on the the cover of Janet. I got the door poster, for PEEEEEP sake! She can be naked all she wants, as long as it is done in style and grace. I just have the feeling her current image is a cry for help. Please look at my tits and buy my album. I hate that in any artist, be they Justin or Janet or Madonna. I do not mind if the record is GOOD, cuz then I can view it in the light of artistry. Like Madonna's Justify My Love clip. Love that. |
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I have to agree that "All For You" didn't help. Apart from the title track, there wasn't much on the album that was memorable, especially after Velvet Rope. That being said, it didn't have to be the death-knell. She could have followed it up with something strong.
And then came "Damita Jo"... I've always maintained that some judicial editing and resequencing could have resulted in a great album. There is some strong material there. She chose a horrific first single, the album was too long, with silly segues and all the sex-obsessed crap. It could have been a hit, but the whole project was mucked up. 20 YO is just disposable, forgettable, R&B. Usher comes to mind. What Janet needs to do is get back to the dance/pop with a hint of R&B that made her such a star with Control and Rhythm Nation. She needs to get folks on the dance floor again. She doesn't have the vocal chops for R&B, and her coy little cooing routine just gets on everyone's nerves. She needs to get some good grooves, some catchy and INVENTIVE songs, quite trying to play to the TRL crowd, and she could have a big comeback. My 2 cents, for what it's worth | |
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