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Reply #30 posted 08/30/02 1:08pm

Brother915

shygirl said:

MJ, Tommy Lee, Mayte. I only bash the bash-worthy and those three definitely qualify.
And if you think I only comment on the MJ threads, you must only read the MJ threads, when you're not posting earth shattering Madonna news. deal
I guess the reason I come down so hard on MJ is that for so long this wacko has been compared to Prince musically and Prince is so far ahead of MJ musically that there is no comparison. Creatively, intellectually and risk-taking is where Prince excels musically and MJ is stagnant.
Prince's guitar playing has gotten even better over the years. MJ is still moonwalking and doing the same dance steps he was doing 10 years ago. And what's up with the shin guards??
My point is that with the exception of age and race, these two have travelled very different musical paths and have very little in common, musically. Prince was never a pop artist, even when he was hugely popular. He is a brilliant musician, and that is something Michael Jackson will never be.
And while Prince is still looking hella good, MJ, well we've all seen the pictures. dead



I meant to address this issue last month when someone said that Mike's dance steps are the same. YES it is the same in the sense that like a jazz musician he has certain basic steps or riffs as it relates to the choreography of any given song. Now take a jazz musician. Let's use Miles for an example, at the beginning of a song let's say "So What" from his 1959 classic KIND OF BLUE. Well he always plays the basic same riff or vamp on the outset of that song. This is the base of that song and that usually will not fluctuate . However, when he goes into his solo ...that's when the improvisation takes place. You would go to a Miles concert and hear him give a different kind of improvised solo night after night. He may play certain signature riff or what have you but the overall structure of the solo may vary from night to night. That's what good TRUE jazz musician do and that's what makes jazz so great..which is WHY I'm such a big fan of this genre.


Mike does the same thing with his dancing. Let's use his performance of "Billie Jean". We all know that he does the same basic steps at the beginning of the song. When he puts the black hat on his head and thrust his pelvis up and down and then kicks his left up in the air to the left side then right side then throws his hat off his head. He does time after time. Also after the second verse during the instrumental break he always does that "hee hooo" then he does his trademark signature spin move stops then moonwalk stop and does his trademaek spin move again then goes up on his toes. He does all the time for the most part. HOWEVER...at the climax of the song when the muscians break the music down. Mike THEN improvises and does different dance steps. Don't believe it look at how he performed "Billie Jean" on the Motown 25 show in 1983 and look at how Mike has evolved the performance of that song over the years since. It's amazing. Personally, I like the way he performed it on one of his Dangerous shows which MTV cut into and broadcasted on their network in 1992. During the breakdown of that Mike does this tight pop-lock move, but he does it in a robotic motion. He almost look like an actual electronic robot. I thought that was SO TIGHT!!!

Also, he did diferrent dance routine during the breakdown of "Billie Jean" on the 1995 MTV Awards. And if you saw the 30th Anniversary special. He did a different improvised dance routine(that snake move) on the breakdown of Billie Jean during the climax.

Prince is not immune to this either. He does the same thing,he always the same riff and vamps on his songs(it's hard to get around a basic structure or riff in a song..I mean you can but it would be very unorthodox to do this.Imagine LIL MAN starting out a song or his songs going straight into his improvised solo..that would be quite erratic wouldn't you think.

So in essence what Mike does is no diferrent than what Prince or any other instrumentalis or soloist does. It's just they do it through their instruments and Mike does it through his dancing. And also if I might add. Mike is an extremly gifted dancer. He's a natural dancer. Some people have to go strictly by the "script" when dancing, meaning they can't deviate from the basic dance routine and improvise or incorporate new steps. Michael can do this. His dancing and performance talent is unique and genunine.

Mike can't seem to get a break with some people. Mike's one of the greatest entertainers/performers the world over and there's a legit reason for that.

Brother 9/15
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Reply #31 posted 08/30/02 1:35pm

JAMIESTARR

Ever notice how Eminem is Mr.Comedy in his music and his videos,but when the joke is on him he's a douche bag???
I hate hime even more for dissing Triumph,look for Robert
Smigel(Triumph) to do a scathing "Tv Funhouse" on SNL.The
only thing that would make Eminem a tough guy is a friggin
gun! Moby is harmless and Eminem is intimidated by him cuz'
Eminem is a big PUSS
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Reply #32 posted 08/31/02 3:13am

shygirl

avatar

Hey, Brother915. Check out Bob Fosse (a world famous choregraper now deceased, for those who don't know) in the movie The Little Prince. The movie came out in 1974 and it's crystal clear that the solo Michael Jackson ripped off Bob Fosse big time in the dancing department. I think the movie is available on video.
And BeeTellTheTruth, what did Christina A. and Moby ever do to you? Geez, so judgemental. mad rolleyes
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Reply #33 posted 08/31/02 10:01am

DavidEye

shygirl said:

MJ, Tommy Lee, Mayte. I only bash the bash-worthy and those three definitely qualify.
And if you think I only comment on the MJ threads, you must only read the MJ threads, when you're not posting earth shattering Madonna news. deal
I guess the reason I come down so hard on MJ is that for so long this wacko has been compared to Prince musically and Prince is so far ahead of MJ musically that there is no comparison. Creatively, intellectually and risk-taking is where Prince excels musically and MJ is stagnant.
Prince's guitar playing has gotten even better over the years. MJ is still moonwalking and doing the same dance steps he was doing 10 years ago. And what's up with the shin guards??
My point is that with the exception of age and race, these two have travelled very different musical paths and have very little in common, musically. Prince was never a pop artist, even when he was hugely popular. He is a brilliant musician, and that is something Michael Jackson will never be.
And while Prince is still looking hella good, MJ, well we've all seen the pictures. dead





The MJ/Prince comparison game was largely created by the media.I have always been a fan of both artists and I think these silly comparisons are dumb,stupid and childish.Yes,Prince is extremely talented,a true musical genuis.You seem almost bitter because you think Prince has not been given his props.Relax,his place in pop music history is secure,as is Michael's.I don't see why you feel the need to knock down another artist just to convince yourself that Prince is superior.But if you wanna continue to behave like a child,go right ahead.Be sure to put away your toys when you're done smile
[This message was edited Sat Aug 31 12:08:08 PDT 2002 by DavidEye]
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Reply #34 posted 08/31/02 7:00pm

fonkywonder

I saw the show too and thought dang how embarrassing...but and then I checked the mtv.com site and this is what I found:

MTV has changed a portion of their website that has highlights of the Video Music Awards.

Earlier today, the site reported that Michael DID receive an award:

"MTV's 2002 Video Music Awards have come and gone, revealing Eminem and the White Stripes as the big winners of the night. And surprises abounded from Guns 'N Roses' blowout finale, James Brown's duet with Jimmy Fallon, and former New York City Mayor Giuliani's appearance. And finally, Michael Jackson's unprecedented Artist of the Millennium award. We've got the winners, video highlights, exclusive photo coverage and much more for you to peruse."

Now, however, they have cut the portion about Michael out of the report:

"MTV's 2002 Video Music Awards have come and gone, revealing Eminem and the White Stripes as the big winners of the night. And surprises abounded from Guns 'N Roses' blowout finale, James Brown's duet with Jimmy Fallon, and former New York City Mayor Giuliani's appearance. We've got the winners, video highlights, exclusive photo coverage and much more for you to peruse."

Source: www.mtv.com/onair/vma/2002/

IMO either it was a misunderstanding on MJ's part or MTV played a nasty joke on him. IMO I have the feeling he was set-up. Why? this man has been attending award shows for 30 odd years and whenever an aritist is going to recieve an honrary award they are told beforehand...hence MJ's speech. But I don't think Britney was in on it...they probably told her something else. Its no surprise for the last few years the ratings haven't been good and whenever he has on that show he has been the major highlight...so it would surprise me that with all the ho ha that has been going on (MJ's battle with Sony who is a major sponsor of the show etc) that instead of telling the same ol tired jokes they played a prank instead. It worked too and I think its shame cause whether you dig MJ or not he put that network on the map!
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Reply #35 posted 08/31/02 11:13pm

shygirl

avatar

While the AP and other media sources reported that MJ received an "award", on the night of the show MTV stated that an "Artist of the Millenium" award never existed. Today in the SF Chronicle, there was a story about the mix up and MJ thanking a whole slew of people, including his mother, for the non existent award.
And to DavidEye, if you want to debate Prince vs. D'Angelo, Prince vs. Beck, or any other great musicians, I'm there. Michael was great, but has become a complete joke, and the sad thing is he did it to himself. I do believe Prince doesn't get the props he deserves, yet the media bends over backwards to support MJ's many lies and publicity stunts, or at least they did.
And while The Rainbow Children show that creatively Prince is far from finished or washed up, the years in the making Invincible is a sad testament to a legend.
I guess we have to agree to disagree, because while you believe MJ was blackmailed and did not molest anyone, I believe the opposite. And I certainly don't like Prince being compared to a molester of children.
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Reply #36 posted 08/31/02 11:48pm

Wolf

BeeTellTheTruth said:

yack, yack, yack...


Your fanaticism to come to Jackson's rescue all the time has gotten out of hand.
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Reply #37 posted 08/31/02 11:53pm

Wolf

Brother915 said:

shygirl said:

MJ, Tommy Lee, Mayte. I only bash the bash-worthy and those three definitely qualify.
And if you think I only comment on the MJ threads, you must only read the MJ threads, when you're not posting earth shattering Madonna news. deal
I guess the reason I come down so hard on MJ is that for so long this wacko has been compared to Prince musically and Prince is so far ahead of MJ musically that there is no comparison. Creatively, intellectually and risk-taking is where Prince excels musically and MJ is stagnant.
Prince's guitar playing has gotten even better over the years. MJ is still moonwalking and doing the same dance steps he was doing 10 years ago. And what's up with the shin guards??
My point is that with the exception of age and race, these two have travelled very different musical paths and have very little in common, musically. Prince was never a pop artist, even when he was hugely popular. He is a brilliant musician, and that is something Michael Jackson will never be.
And while Prince is still looking hella good, MJ, well we've all seen the pictures. dead



I meant to address this issue last month when someone said that Mike's dance steps are the same. YES it is the same in the sense that like a jazz musician he has certain basic steps or riffs as it relates to the choreography of any given song. Now take a jazz musician. Let's use Miles for an example, at the beginning of a song let's say "So What" from his 1959 classic [color=blue:9e61fbfa8d:8bdd915751]KIND OF BLUE. Well he always plays the basic same riff or vamp on the outset of that song. This is the base of that song and that usually will not fluctuate . However, when he goes into his solo ...that's when the improvisation takes place. You would go to a Miles concert and hear him give a different kind of improvised solo night after night. He may play certain signature riff or what have you but the overall structure of the solo may vary from night to night. That's what good TRUE jazz musician do and that's what makes jazz so great..which is WHY I'm such a big fan of this genre.


Mike does the same thing with his dancing. Let's use his performance of "Billie Jean". We all know that he does the same basic steps at the beginning of the song. When he puts the black hat on his head and thrust his pelvis up and down and then kicks his left up in the air to the left side then right side then throws his hat off his head. He does time after time. Also after the second verse during the instrumental break he always does that "hee hooo" then he does his trademark signature spin move stops then moonwalk stop and does his trademaek spin move again then goes up on his toes. He does all the time for the most part. HOWEVER...at the climax of the song when the muscians break the music down. Mike THEN improvises and does different dance steps. Don't believe it look at how he performed "Billie Jean" on the Motown 25 show in 1983 and look at how Mike has evolved the performance of that song over the years since. It's amazing. Personally, I like the way he performed it on one of his Dangerous shows which MTV cut into and broadcasted on their network in 1992. During the breakdown of that Mike does this tight pop-lock move, but he does it in a robotic motion. He almost look like an actual electronic robot. I thought that was SO TIGHT!!!

Also, he did diferrent dance routine during the breakdown of "Billie Jean" on the 1995 MTV Awards. And if you saw the 30th Anniversary special. He did a different improvised dance routine(that snake move) on the breakdown of Billie Jean during the climax.

Prince is not immune to this either. He does the same thing,he always the same riff and vamps on his songs(it's hard to get around a basic structure or riff in a song..I mean you can but it would be very unorthodox to do this.Imagine LIL MAN starting out a song or his songs going straight into his improvised solo..that would be quite erratic wouldn't you think.

So in essence what Mike does is no diferrent than what Prince or any other instrumentalis or soloist does. It's just they do it through their instruments and Mike does it through his dancing. And also if I might add. Mike is an extremly gifted dancer. He's a natural dancer. Some people have to go strictly by the "script" when dancing, meaning they can't deviate from the basic dance routine and improvise or incorporate new steps. Michael can do this. His dancing and performance talent is unique and genunine.

Mike can't seem to get a break with some people. Mike's one of the greatest entertainers/performers the world over and there's a legit reason for that.

Brother 9/15


Comparing the same constant choreography to musical riffs and music structure is apples and oranges.
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Reply #38 posted 09/01/02 6:00am

Revolution

avatar

At least Prince knew when it was time to stop
dancing...luckily, he still plays the hell
out of the guitar!
Thanks for the laughs, arguments and overall enjoyment for the last umpteen years. It's time for me to retire from Prince.org and engage in the real world...lol. Above all, I appreciated the talent Prince. You were one of a kind.
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Reply #39 posted 09/01/02 6:53pm

BeeTellTheTrut
h

And BeeTellTheTruth, what did Christina A. and Moby ever do to you? Geez, so judgemental
Nope, it is having an opinion, something that your lack. LOL
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Reply #40 posted 09/01/02 10:32pm

shygirl

avatar

I can see BeeTellTheTruth is humor impaired. sigh
The majority of these posts are opinions, moron. evillol
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Reply #41 posted 09/02/02 11:15am

subyduby

all i can say is that shakira got robbed out of many Moonmen. great video!
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Reply #42 posted 09/02/02 11:43am

jnoel

Once again Shygirl is Wisegirl!

shygirl said:

I didn't see the awards, but heard MJ made a thank you speech for an award he didn't get.
Not only is Michael Jackson a wacko child molester, he's also an idiot. evillol
MJ= err
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Reply #43 posted 09/02/02 7:09pm

BeeTellTheTrut
h

Uh oh, someone with an attitude.
I can see BeeTellTheTruth is humor impaired.
The majority of these posts are opinions, moron
I can see that someone is totally stupid, but whatever. Yeah, I know this board is full of opinions, I was just saying you are not that very good in expressing them so well, You lack the spunk!! LOL !! And the humor. I have humor, you don't. End of discussion.
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Reply #44 posted 09/02/02 8:24pm

Supernova

avatar

BeeTellTheTruth said:

Uh oh, someone with an attitude.
I can see BeeTellTheTruth is humor impaired.
The majority of these posts are opinions, moron
I can see that someone is totally stupid, but whatever. Yeah, I know this board is full of opinions, I was just saying you are not that very good in expressing them so well, You lack the spunk!! LOL !! And the humor. I have humor, you don't. End of discussion.

If Shygirl lacks anything it's not spunk, humor, nor expressiveness. She's damn funny, especially when she gets you guys to bite about everything-Michael Jackson.
This post not for the wimp contingent. All whiny wusses avert your eyes.
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Reply #45 posted 09/02/02 11:36pm

Spats

Jackson is a joke. He is stuck in the 80's. And he made a complete fool out of himself on the show. It was just a little birthday segment for him and he thinks it's an award ceremony. Hahahahahahaha. He picks up that cheap musical note and thanks everyone for it. Classic. And then you can still see him standing there like fool while someone accepts their award. And who dresses him? Good lord. Put this guy in a time machine or something and end it. Britney looked great though as did Lisa Marie Presley and Kate Hudson.
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Reply #46 posted 09/03/02 4:05am

Brother915

shygirl said:

Hey, Brother915. Check out Bob Fosse (a world famous choregraper now deceased, for those who don't know) in the movie The Little Prince. The movie came out in 1974 and it's crystal clear that the solo Michael Jackson ripped off Bob Fosse big time in the dancing department. I think the movie is available on video.
And BeeTellTheTruth, what did Christina A. and Moby ever do to you? Geez, so judgemental. mad rolleyes



Good Morning Orgers,

Hope your Labor Day weekend was nice and relaxing.

Shygirl, oh so Prince hasn't "ripped" off people's music. Listen to "Alphabet Street" at the end of the song and hear the same basic riff from Sly And The Family Stone's "YOU CAN MAKE IT IF YOU TRY"...now what is that called again...oh in Prince's case it's only "borrowing".smile
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Reply #47 posted 09/03/02 4:08am

Brother915

Spats said:

Jackson is a joke. He is stuck in the 80's. And he made a complete fool out of himself on the show. It was just a little birthday segment for him and he thinks it's an award ceremony. Hahahahahahaha. He picks up that cheap musical note and thanks everyone for it. Classic. And then you can still see him standing there like fool while someone accepts their award. And who dresses him? Good lord. Put this guy in a time machine or something and end it. Britney looked great though as did Lisa Marie Presley and Kate Hudson.



Prince's taste in fashion over the years hasn't exactly been all that impressive to me ...ya know...smile.
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Reply #48 posted 09/03/02 4:13am

Brother915

Wolf said:

Brother915 said:

shygirl said:

MJ, Tommy Lee, Mayte. I only bash the bash-worthy and those three definitely qualify.
And if you think I only comment on the MJ threads, you must only read the MJ threads, when you're not posting earth shattering Madonna news. deal
I guess the reason I come down so hard on MJ is that for so long this wacko has been compared to Prince musically and Prince is so far ahead of MJ musically that there is no comparison. Creatively, intellectually and risk-taking is where Prince excels musically and MJ is stagnant.
Prince's guitar playing has gotten even better over the years. MJ is still moonwalking and doing the same dance steps he was doing 10 years ago. And what's up with the shin guards??
My point is that with the exception of age and race, these two have travelled very different musical paths and have very little in common, musically. Prince was never a pop artist, even when he was hugely popular. He is a brilliant musician, and that is something Michael Jackson will never be.
And while Prince is still looking hella good, MJ, well we've all seen the pictures. dead



I meant to address this issue last month when someone said that Mike's dance steps are the same. YES it is the same in the sense that like a jazz musician he has certain basic steps or riffs as it relates to the choreography of any given song. Now take a jazz musician. Let's use Miles for an example, at the beginning of a song let's say "So What" from his 1959 classic [color=blue:9e61fbfa8d:8bdd915751:61d61eb95b]KIND OF BLUE. Well he always plays the basic same riff or vamp on the outset of that song. This is the base of that song and that usually will not fluctuate . However, when he goes into his solo ...that's when the improvisation takes place. You would go to a Miles concert and hear him give a different kind of improvised solo night after night. He may play certain signature riff or what have you but the overall structure of the solo may vary from night to night. That's what good TRUE jazz musician do and that's what makes jazz so great..which is WHY I'm such a big fan of this genre.


Mike does the same thing with his dancing. Let's use his performance of "Billie Jean". We all know that he does the same basic steps at the beginning of the song. When he puts the black hat on his head and thrust his pelvis up and down and then kicks his left up in the air to the left side then right side then throws his hat off his head. He does time after time. Also after the second verse during the instrumental break he always does that "hee hooo" then he does his trademark signature spin move stops then moonwalk stop and does his trademaek spin move again then goes up on his toes. He does all the time for the most part. HOWEVER...at the climax of the song when the muscians break the music down. Mike THEN improvises and does different dance steps. Don't believe it look at how he performed "Billie Jean" on the Motown 25 show in 1983 and look at how Mike has evolved the performance of that song over the years since. It's amazing. Personally, I like the way he performed it on one of his Dangerous shows which MTV cut into and broadcasted on their network in 1992. During the breakdown of that Mike does this tight pop-lock move, but he does it in a robotic motion. He almost look like an actual electronic robot. I thought that was SO TIGHT!!!

Also, he did diferrent dance routine during the breakdown of "Billie Jean" on the 1995 MTV Awards. And if you saw the 30th Anniversary special. He did a different improvised dance routine(that snake move) on the breakdown of Billie Jean during the climax.

Prince is not immune to this either. He does the same thing,he always the same riff and vamps on his songs(it's hard to get around a basic structure or riff in a song..I mean you can but it would be very unorthodox to do this.Imagine LIL MAN starting out a song or his songs going straight into his improvised solo..that would be quite erratic wouldn't you think.

So in essence what Mike does is no diferrent than what Prince or any other instrumentalis or soloist does. It's just they do it through their instruments and Mike does it through his dancing. And also if I might add. Mike is an extremly gifted dancer. He's a natural dancer. Some people have to go strictly by the "script" when dancing, meaning they can't deviate from the basic dance routine and improvise or incorporate new steps. Michael can do this. His dancing and performance talent is unique and genunine.

Mike can't seem to get a break with some people. Mike's one of the greatest entertainers/performers the world over and there's a legit reason for that.

Brother 9/15


Comparing the same constant choreography to musical riffs and music structure is apples and oranges.





Yeah but the point was that a person can't say Mike does the same basic dance steps over and over. Like he doesn't deviate from his basic dance routines and incorporate new steps in the mix. The analogy I used was a very appropriate one. Thanks you for your comments though.rolleyes
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Reply #49 posted 09/03/02 4:16am

DavidEye

I like this BeeTellTheTruth guy!! He knows what he's talkin' bout smile
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Reply #50 posted 09/03/02 11:01am

Universaluv

subyduby said:

did u guys see Axl Rose performance? it was great! the prodution wasn't specatacular but his running around and his voice made it great.


Not to take away from the Prince vs. Michael Jackson posts that we so rarely see around here... wink

But are you serious about GNR? Cause I heard that performance and was just embarrassed for Axl. As much as I love GNR, his vocals just plain sucked. It sounded he was out of breath from running around the stage. Don't get me wrong, the band sounded great and I was definitely hoping that he could pull it together, but it sounded like he needs to get back into performing shape cause he just didn't have it at the VMA's. But that's just my opinion, WTF do I know?
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Reply #51 posted 09/04/02 1:59am

Wolf

Brother915 said:

Yeah but the point was that a person can't say Mike does the same basic dance steps over and over. Like he doesn't deviate from his basic dance routines and incorporate new steps in the mix. The analogy I used was a very appropriate one. Thanks you for your comments though.rolleyes


A person can say it if that's all the person sees Michael doing. I haven't seen Michael incorporate new dance steps since the 80s. If he does it I guess he doesn't feel like he needs to do it on tv for the world to see. And it appears pretty obvious that ShyGirl isn't the only one that holds that opinion. Many others have said the same thing basically. You're welcome for my comments. rolleyes
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Reply #52 posted 09/04/02 3:36pm

ReeseStrongnig
ht

Universaluv said:

subyduby said:

did u guys see Axl Rose performance? it was great! the prodution wasn't specatacular but his running around and his voice made it great.


Not to take away from the Prince vs. Michael Jackson posts that we so rarely see around here... wink

But are you serious about GNR? Cause I heard that performance and was just embarrassed for Axl. As much as I love GNR, his vocals just plain sucked. It sounded he was out of breath from running around the stage. Don't get me wrong, the band sounded great and I was definitely hoping that he could pull it together, but it sounded like he needs to get back into performing shape cause he just didn't have it at the VMA's. But that's just my opinion, WTF do I know?



but you're not the only one who feels that way, trust me. a GROUP of friends and i watched that performance and thought the same thing. "welcome to the jungle" was really hard to watch because he coundn't quite...well...,hit it! i was kinda disappointed...
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Reply #53 posted 09/04/02 3:38pm

ReeseStrongnig
ht

Universaluv said:

subyduby said:

did u guys see Axl Rose performance? it was great! the prodution wasn't specatacular but his running around and his voice made it great.


Not to take away from the Prince vs. Michael Jackson posts that we so rarely see around here... wink

But are you serious about GNR? Cause I heard that performance and was just embarrassed for Axl. As much as I love GNR, his vocals just plain sucked. It sounded he was out of breath from running around the stage. Don't get me wrong, the band sounded great and I was definitely hoping that he could pull it together, but it sounded like he needs to get back into performing shape cause he just didn't have it at the VMA's. But that's just my opinion, WTF do I know?



but you're not the only one who feels that way, trust me. a GROUP of friends and i watched that performance and thought the same thing. "welcome to the jungle" was really hard to watch because he coundn't quite...well...,hit it! i was kinda disappointed...
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