I remember all this:

"The recording companies really, really do conspire against the artists," Jackson said. "They steal, they cheat, they do everything they can, especially [against] the black artists. ..."

But Jackson may have taken a wrong turn when he turned the fight for him into a fight against Mottola. Claiming that Mottola had used the "N-word" to refer to an unidentified black Sony artist, Jackson singled out the company chairman for being "mean ... a racist ... and very, very, very devilish."

Those accusations expanded on previous comments Jackson had made at a fan club event in London on June 15, where he told the crowd, "Tommy Mottola is a devil." At that event, Jackson didn't address any aspects of racism, and he limited his remarks to his troubles with Sony, which he claimed had tried to destroy what was to have been his comeback album, Invincible, by failing to promote it.

Cloudbuster said:

i must tell you something.. i think that all Rumours about M.J - like abusing children , did affect the record sales,, But one thing that i can agree with u , is the promoting... is true is was bad.. I´m a dj. and i reallly have hard times 2 get " YRMW" on 12" VINYL

ufoclub said:

I'm bumping the album right now. I'm on YRMW. Great record so far. No "Thriller" or "Off the Wall" or even "Dangerous" but still...great R&B record. Too many rap cameos though.

Ok I'm on track 13...WAY too many ballads! Cheesy as hell! "Butterflies" and "Heaven Can Wait" are amazing..."Whatever Happens" is hot too...but the rest fucking BLOW! I'd never listened to this record all the way through...now I know why. 12 tracks Michael! Dance floor cuts. One or two great ballads!

DarlingDiana said:

No way...it's been a while now that u can get entire albuns b4 their release...I remember that I've listen 2 madonna's "Music" entire album, like a month b4 the release date...and the album sold a lot. The problem with "invencible" is that the album sucks big time! I've try several times, but never got 2 listen 2 it from beggining 2 end...it is so damn boring!

BT11 said:

They love him so much they coined the Wacko Jacko title. Even by the time Bad came out many peeps in the UK over the age of 15 were saying WTF is happening with this guy.

What has kept MJ legacy going even in Europe, is his past material; Thriller, OTW, the Jacksons/Jackson 5. When people even in Europe talk about "vintage" Michael thats what they are talking about NOT History, Vince or even Dangerous and Bad.

it's getting usual in the family 2 use this excuse when an album doesn't sell...sabotage! The fact that the album may sux is never considered

Sony aside, I think Michael Jackson could have EASILY sold 5 million had he made an amazing album. Instead, we get an album that's half great and half pure shit. I mean, as great as "YRMW", "Butterflies" and "Break of Dawn" were, y'all have to admit that alot of the songs made you gag.

I think MJ, at least then, had the perfect oppurtunity for a comeback despite his image problems. Alot of people wanted him to come back. NSYNC was practically sucking him off. Hell, the album, despite being mediocre, sold 2 million copies.

I do think that another factor is the fact that he spent $30 million on making the album, not including promotion and videos(which was like one proper one and one half assed one). And with the exception of 2 songs, MJ worked with several producers. In order to make a profit with the album, he would have had to sell just as much as, FUCK IT IM SAYING IT, Thriller. And that's impossible, especially in todays climate. Of course, in MJ's bubbled up world, he probably thought it was a piece of cake.

Can MJ still make a comeback? It'd be nice, and really, you never know. But I think that he really had his chance 5 years ago. It's not like Madonna, whom for all the Kabbalah craziness, has continued to make comebacks because she still makes quality pop music and has avoided MJ wacky territory. Hell, even Prince, for all his wackiness of the 90s, was able to make a nice comeback by making a decent album that the public can, for once, relate to. And, of course, Mariah was able to get people to forget about her bad PR of 2001 by releasing a decent quality album that had surefire radio hits. But I think MJ is way down the drain. Even if he were to make a great album(which I'd still buy, regardless), he'd have a hard time making a comeback.
[Edited 12/11/06 14:51pm]

Cloudbuster said:

wow speechless as a single? that woulda bombed imo

Well im sure it could happen, but where was everyone when Beyonce's DAD pulled this crap and stole Amerie's track idea, and then forced Sony to sit on Amerie's record until Beyonce put out Crazy in Love, then when Amerie put out 1 thing everyone accused Amerie of being a wannabe Beyonce with her sound, and yet Ameries "1 thing" was done long before. And where was the conspiracy team when Universal/Def Jam (jay Z) that is, let Christina Milian go because she spoke up about the Rihanna track "SOS" which they wanted Christina to do but she turned it down wanted to use her own team to do her record. Well because of this "talking back" she did her record was purposely delayed a week after Rihanna's and stores/fans were not told the reason for the delay or given a new street date.

Cloudbuster said:

co sign

NorthernLad said:

Don't laugh dude! Sony HAD 2 pay those posters. Bitchy snark on message forums is almost impossible 2 find.
[Edited 12/11/06 15:23pm]

npgmaverick said:

Maybe that explains all the haters of 3121 and Musicology.... WB was out there making sure Prince had plenty of people bashing him at all times. Dammit, I missed the boat. And here I was praising both albums, and I could have made money dissing them?!?!?! Ugh.

Missed opportunities.

I'm not a big defender of MJ, but I always liked You Rock My World.

That's what he should do more of.

I think the ballads and slower tracks are good:

"Butterflies"
"Heaven Can Wait"
"Whatever Happens"
"Break Of Dawn"
"Cry" (although I can't stand the producer,lol)

It's the uptemp tracks that sound stale and uninspired.Most of todays' R&B producers aren't very creative or unique."Heartbreaker" sounds like an N'Sync song,"2000 Watts" is generic and the title track comes and goes without leaving a trace.Perhaps MJ should have kept the slow songs I listed,then worked on some amazing uptempo jams with somebody else.I remember 'Invincible' was released around the same time as Jamiroquai's 'A Funk Odyssey' CD.The Jamiroquai album is filled with the type of kickass dance/disco tracks that MJ desperately needed.

DarlingDiana said:

You were on the internet in 1991?

Al Gore, is that you?

SoulAlive said:

Yeah...the ballads you listed are the GOOD ones...but that's about half of 'em. The others are so drippy, dated, corny, lame, and half-assed...I think MJ was on some serious painkillers and drinkin the jesus juice for the second half of production

[Edited 12/12/06 8:47am]

he lost me when i heard him saying some chick is "BANGIN"...NIG%A PLEASE....

prettymansson said:

As cringe-worthy as the kiss btwn he and Iman in RTT.

'Invincible' is MJ's 'Rave Un2 The Joy Fantastic'

badujunkie said:

damn!

badujunkie said:

"Speechless" is okay but "You Are My Life" is a snoozefest.

it was sabotaged by being overlong and sucking.



(but i'm sure someone already said that. i just didn't think the subject worthy of reading 84 posts about it.)

Haystack said:

Yes, content wise it is.
However, it could have been Michael's "Musicology" with the right promotion and the critics focusing on the album being "okay" and "average", as opposed to labeling it "shit" and blaming a lot of it due to Michael's personal life. Can one reviewer post 1993 review a Michael Jackson CD and not mention his personal life? I doubt it. It is tolerated when a reviewer does that to a Michael Jackson album, but if someone did that to an Usher album or a Justin Timberlake album, everyone would be all up in arms.

The album seriously lacked decent up-tempos. And that's what people love Michael for. His biggest and most classic hits are all songs that make you want to dance. Songs like "Invincible" or "2000 Watts" just didn't ring true and lacked passion. Invincible had some good songs and could've been a good album with a few more up-tempo jams and less over-produced Rodney Jerkins garbage.

This would've been tight:

1. Unbreakable
2. You Rock My World
3. Butterflies
4. Decent up-tempo
5. Heaven Can Wait
6. Whatever Happens
7. Speechless
8. Decent up-tempo
9. Break Of Dawn
10. Threatened

I was going to equate Invincible to anything, I'd say it was his "Let It Be". You know, an album that is pretty decent but was crapped all over by music critics. Only true Beatles fans like "Let It Be" and only ture MJ fans seems to like "Invincible". But it's nice for us fans to have something no-one else has. Everyone, not just MJ fans, owns or has heard "Thriller". The same can't be said for Vince, and I like it that way. It's about the only thing MJ has done that only the fans appreciate.

It was crapped on by the critics deservedly - and I say that as a huge fan. And it pains me to say that, because I know he'd get crapped on by the critics irrelevant of how good the material was. He's had bad reviews with practically every album since Bad.

It isn't without merit but it is truly one of the most flawed and disappointing albums by a major artist ever.

MattyJam said:

No, you're being ignorant. You see, I didn't have a childhood, so I'm really just a child myself.