MartyMcFly said:

DanceWme said:

Garry Glitter would love that picture!

MikeMatronik said:

lastdecember said:

Welcome to rock n roll....People beat on their chest all of the time...Again, your argument is moot because that comes with the territory from talentless hacks to genuises....You see, it would be more understandable if you were jumping on Timberlake because of the pass he received for the Super Bowl fiasco (which I have done..) or the fact that he is indeed overrated (ditto)...But shitting on the boy because he's cocky or because he did the cliche "This album is inspired by" stuff is nitpicking.....Again, I'm certainly not one for taking up for Timberlake...But what does him hanging up on strings have to do with what he's doing today...Hey, George Michael (who is the superior artist) used to dance and rap with a leather jacket on (early Wham); Michael Jackson was on a Saturday Monring cartoon...The Beatles were singing corny songs and sporting gimmicky mop tops...WTF??? Who cares...The last time I checked, artists are allowed to grow, right?

As for your comments about Timbaland, he sure was a "producer" during his early work with Missy Elliot...And he certainly brought "something" out of Aaliyah on two of her best albums...This whole thing comes down to the snobbish attitudes on this site concerning hip-hop based artists and producers...And while some of it is justified, I think folks should be able to seperate the "beat makers" from the innovators...And hey, different strokes for different folks...Just say I don't like Timbaland because he does the hippity hoppity stuff (which he has gone beyond, BTW...) and call it a night...
[Edited 10/24/06 8:50am]

SoulAlive said:

.....

murph said:

People on here bitch about Timbaland all the time but he is grossly UNDERESTIMATED. He is as prolific as Prince and has done so in less time in the business. I'm in no way implying that he is on Prince's level musically, but is output is ridiculous because he is so "in demand" all of the time. I thought Tim would be gone by now but he's shown that he knows how to change up. Some on here are saying that he's using the same beats - not true. Timbaland started the "bounce" sound and he has completely abandoned that at this point. For a hip-hop producer, he's ahead of the game.
I agree that Justin isn't doing much that Britney didn't do. Britney had a good pop CD last time around. This year its Justin's turn. I still don't like much on the CD but I can acknowledge that it is well done; I'm just not FEELING it. In my opinion, he still comes off as an older, slightly more R&Bish Jesse McCartney.

BlaqueKnight said:

But isn't that what a good producer--rather than a beatmaker--is supposed to help with?

murph said:

Artistic growth? To consider Justins artistic growth of "Dirty Pop" to "SexyBack" and put that into the same class as the Beatles growth from "Love Me do" to "Nowhere Man" is insane. Also there is no snobbish attitude, im not saying there is anything wrong with Timbalands beats or Pharrells beats, but they are not producers plain and simple. The fact that Nick Carter could have done the same album with Timbalands production proves it, the fact that he laid the same beats down for Nelly Furtado also. As for tim's work with Aaliyah, i think her genius clearly came through on her third release when she limited his production to a few tracks and brought in other producers and live instruments not beats.

AlexdeParis said:

I got through 7 songs and realized it was the same thing he did with Nelly Furtado, and also that it was nothing more than "TimFest" and you could have Nick Carter or some other pretty boy doing the vocals.

MikeMatronik said:

I think Mark Foley is pissed that he can't send him an email...

VinnyM27 said:

who?

MikeMatronik said:

The young Justin TImberlake in the photo....he's all "ruined" because he grew up.

Mark Foley is the guy who was a Senator who got caught hitting on male pages, who are 15 or 16.

VinnyM27 said:

ohh

I heard it only ones at a record store and I didn´t like it at all. Most of the songs seem to me to be the same. I found no emotions nor melody in it.

lastdecember said:

That would be all well in good...Except for the fact that bringing up the Beatles was only meant to show everyone on this site that all artists have to start somewhere (hence my comment that everyone from hacks to genuises beat on their chest about their art)...This "gotcha" posting is all missing the point...The thing is when I have a debate about something I try my best to know what I'm talking; I try to be informed...For you to say that Nelly's production (mostly New Wave and more hip-hop inspired) is the same as Timberlakes (mostly '80s funk and electro..) is a bit misleading...We get it...You despise anything hip-hop related...And that's all good...Just make it known...Twenty years ago you would be the same person saying Public Enemy sounded just like NWA...

Or maybe you would have been the same person 30 years ago saying that the Clash sounded like The Sex Pistols....Again, I'm not taking up for Timberlake...To me he's made a good pop album, mainly because of Timbaland's production...But you won't see me waving a flag saying its the best thing sense sliced bread...However, you will see me giving credit where credit is do, no matter how lame the artist is....And it seems some people on the Org have a problem doing so...
[Edited 10/24/06 9:57am]

MendesCity said:

Sometimes. Not necessarily. It depends on what the individual is into and what moves them. I like "Pose" which isn't on the American version of the CD (reminds me of the 80s) and I think "Lovestoned" which is very Michael Jacksonish, is probably the best track on the CD. I can't fault Tim entirely because he has some tracks that I really like - especially on Aalyiah's CDs. Producers have to work within the limitations of what the artist and the label want. Sometimes they have a lot less creative freedom than many people on here bitching understand. He's no Q or Gamble and Huff or even Jam and Lewis but he is a producer in the sense that you can listen to his entire body of work and hear major differences like Ginuwine's "Pony" and Missy's "Beep Me 911". Someone mentioned Prince earlier but Prince sucks as a producer, too. He can't seem to create a palatte for another artist to save his life.

BlaqueKnight said:

I though Pose was unreleased...
[Edited 10/24/06 10:05am]
[Edited 10/24/06 10:07am]

murph said:

First of all to say that i despise anything Hip-Hop related is once again insane, if that was the reason i would say I HATE HIP HOP. But nothing is further from the point, and yes I know the difference between NWA and Public Enemy, always did. We can debate good Hip Hop producers all day, the fact that Swizz Beatz brought more from Aaliyah in one song than Timbaland did on 2 albums, is no more than praise to Swizz Beatz for noticing something in her that Timbaland didnt. The same way that Rich Harrison can do production for Amerie on tracks like "1 thing" and "Talkin Bout" and realize what she needs and then of course Beyonce wants it. Hip Hop is very broad, and there is more to it than Pharrell and Timbaland, not knocking them but there are at least 100 better producers/beatmakers.

Second I never said anything about Timberlake being bad or even doing a bad album, If you look back at the first post it was pointing out the praise he gets for this record, and where were the same people when Britneys "In the Zone" came out which was more creative and Diverse. So it wasnt slighting him or anyone, it was pointing out give proper praise, it seemed Justin got cut alot more slack since his "Pop" days than Britney did, if she did something with Pharrell everyone would say "Oh shes just trying to sell" and yet Justin does something with Tim and hes the second coming. The post was saying give credit where it is due. Just like i would say the new Jessica Simpson album is one of the best Pop/Dance albums of the year, and Cassie's song "Ditto" is one of the best songs of the year.

Also if you think i have anything against Hip Hop/RB, u should check other posts i have done about MYA,AMerie,Van Hunt,John Legend, Alicia Keys,the roots, etc....
[Edited 10/24/06 10:11am]

MikeMatronik said:[quote]

BlaqueKnight said:

Its on the Japanese version of the CD.

BlaqueKnight said:[quote]

MikeMatronik said:

nice...

BlaqueKnight said:

Which was my point, i wasnt even mentioning Timbaland, just pointing out a fact that there are much better producers, his work with Aaliyah was great but Swizz Beatz brought more out of her in one song than he did in 2 albums, thats not slighting him its just showing his limits. As for my original point it was just showing that alot of people wont admit that Britney did a good record, because it was Britney and alot of these people are the ones labeling Justin as a genius of some sort.

lastdecember said:

I disagree with you wholeheartedly about the Swiss Beats/Timbaland thing. I think Timbaland helped Aalyiah grow as an artist. I do agree that there are better hip-hop producers but Justin's CD is not a hip-hop CD and neither is Nelly Furtado's. Timbaland was definately working outside of his norm, and that's good. Just like Teddy Riley had to stretch himself on Michael Jackson's CD in the 90s, Timb is having to have to do the same. That's a good thing for a producer. You seem to dislike Timbaland for some reason. We listen to music differently. An artist that I don't like can do a song that I end up liking because i take things on a case-by-case basis. I generally am not fond of Justin Timberlake but he's got a couple of good jams. To me, an artist doesn't automatically get points for being "diverse" like Britney did over Justin on this thread. I don't value diversity in music as much as I do quality. I wouldn't want to hear Jaheim put out a metal album or NIN take on a jazz production. Its not that they would be incapable of it but I don't want that from them because I like what they do as individuals. The same crap criticism happens on here when D'Angelo's name comes up. Prince fans use Prince's diversity as a means of measure but D'ANGELO IS A FAR BETTER SOUL ARTIST THAN PRINCE EVER WAS. He isn't as diverse because he doesn't desire to be. And that is cool with me. Prince never conquered soul music. Never. That's not what I expect from Prince when I pick up his CDs. I don't expect Timbaland to do the job of an entire production team on every record, nor do I expect him to venture deep into other genres like rock, house, techno, etc. because that's not what he does. Still, no sane person could look over Timbaland's entire catalog of music and say it all sucks.

What producers, inside Timbaland's genre, are better than him?

MikeMatronik said:

The late J-Dilla for one, but that's another topic.
[Edited 10/24/06 10:54am]

Bottom line; the guy and individuality don't walk hand in hand, in general.

He's a semi-history repeat for the Elvis sensation

Thats my honest to god opinion.

BlaqueKnight said:

Once again, never said he sucked or even said i dislike Timbaland. As far as Aaliyah, there was no bigger fan than me of her, however, the growth she showed between album 2 and 3 is a testament to Her and not any producer, i feel that shaking loose of Timbaland at that point was a must because he had his limits in production, just as Prince or anyone else has limits. I do take music on a one to one basis, the fact i can say that someone like Cassie, has two songs on her album "Ditto" and "what do u want" and they are possibly the best POP/Rb songs of the year, thats not saying she is a genius or that i love her as an artist, but giving her props for that. The fact "Fired Up" by Jessica Simpson is the best Dance track this year would be another statement. The Britney Diversity on "In the Zone" didnt make it a good record the fact was that all/most of the songs were good, hands down, no one would admit it because its Britney which was the point. I mean lets be real, if Britney came out with "SexyBack" would she get the praise? that was the point of the thread

lastdecember said:

1. Nothing on Cassie's record qualifies as "best R&B" in any sense. Pop - maybe. R&B - hell no. Actually, now that I think of it, nothing on Cassie's CD is on the level of "Lovestoned", so I take back the pop-maybe credit as well. I like "Miss Your Touch" better than "Ditto", personally. That's not saying much, either.
2. There was just as much growth in Aalyiah for album 1 to 2 as there was from 2 to 3, it was just a different kind of growth and much more noticeable because she was more famous.
3. SexyBack sucks. Catchy fluff for the musically mindless. Britney would not get as much poplove for doing it. White males have more chart value than white females in general. Its a sad, fucked up reality but labels know this and operate around it.
I don't know the Jessica Simpson tracks you mentioned. I'll check them out.

BlaqueKnight said:

What you said....

BlaqueKnight said:

First point POP/Rb is one word, to me that has become a new form of music, not real rb and not real Pop. I didnt say Pop or RB, the Cassie point was a broad term, but to me "Ditto" and "What do U want" are the best in that POP/Rb category.

Second for the Aaliyah debate all those albums had different people at the helm, so the growth is Aaliyahs not a producer. Had she lived she would have probably gone to the others like maybe pharrell or Moby or who knows. But for my money she really came into who she was going to be on the third record.

Three, once again the Britney/Justin point was what the oringal thread was, the Hipocracy in music, from critics to listeners to the industry itself, and the Jessica Simpson fact also comes into play here too when we look at the attention to Nick and the attention to Jessica, ones good and one is evil. People bought into the Nick thing because the public likes to take the side of the wounded brokenhearted man, which was the case with Britney and Justin too. I guess you can say that Nick and Justin played the "Pussy" card and won.