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Thread started 10/15/06 12:46am

thekidsgirl

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The Total Musician

I really love the fact that Prince is the total package musically
He writes, produces,composes, plays all/most of instruments, sings

What other musicians are this versatile?
I know there are many, and I'd like to check them out
If you will, so will I
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Reply #1 posted 10/15/06 3:52am

Isolar

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David Bowie, Michael Jackson and Paul McCartney are other musicans that are very versital.
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Reply #2 posted 10/15/06 5:13am

squiddyren

If you haven't picked up a classic '70s Stevie Wonder album, you need to. Exquisite musicianship, songwriting, vocals, IDEAS... you'll hear it all.
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Reply #3 posted 10/15/06 5:42am

stopHATING

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squiddyren said:

If you haven't picked up a classic '70s Stevie Wonder album, you need to. Exquisite musicianship, songwriting, vocals, IDEAS... you'll hear it all.



Todd Rundren for $400, Alex ?
"You can go Fly ya Mama's Kite" (c) Prince
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Reply #4 posted 10/15/06 6:08am

PFunkjazz

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Prince doesn't read or write music.
test
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Reply #5 posted 10/15/06 6:12am

stopHATING

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PFunkjazz said:

Prince doesn't read or write music.



Ummm...did he mean "Literally" or "ACTUALLY"
cause, if that's the case? STEVIE WONDER doesn't either , homie.
"You can go Fly ya Mama's Kite" (c) Prince
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Reply #6 posted 10/15/06 6:15am

Harlepolis

Duke Ellington is the ULTIMATE total musician. But there're ones who carried the torch(if not in the same style):

Shuggie Otis

Stevie Wonder

Donny Hathaway(His incompleted operetta Life is on the verge of being released)

Bernie Worrell(He was the one who the letters for P-Funk 2ghether long b4 it had a term).

Patrice Rushen(Aside from award/TV shows musical directing, she got her own orchestra thing working out too)

Those were on the top of my head, for the moment.
[Edited 10/15/06 6:19am]
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Reply #7 posted 10/15/06 6:16am

stopHATING

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Harlepolis said:

Duke Ellington is the ULTIMATE total musician. But there're ones who carried the torch(if not in the same style):

Shuggie Otis

Stevie Wonder

Donny Hathaway(His incompleted operetta Life is on the verge of being released)

Bernie Worrell(He was the one who the letters for P-Funk 2ghether long b4 it had a term).

Patrice Rushen[b](Aside from award/TV shows musical directing, she got her own orchestra thing working out too)

Those were on the top of my head, for the moment.



PREACH !!!
[b][Edited 10/15/06 6:17am]

"You can go Fly ya Mama's Kite" (c) Prince
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Reply #8 posted 10/15/06 6:30am

PFunkjazz

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stopHATING said:

PFunkjazz said:

Prince doesn't read or write music.



Ummm...did he mean "Literally" or "ACTUALLY"
cause, if that's the case? STEVIE WONDER doesn't either , homie.


Literally.

Here's an interview excerpt from Eric Leeds

TLM: How did Prince prepare his musicians for a new recording? Did you have charts for example?

EL: No. He does not read or write music. At the time I was in the band, myself and the trumpeter Matt Blistan were the only guys that read music. Basically, everybody else would play by ear. But Prince knows the difference between say, an E minor chord and an E major, but as far as reading musical notation, he doesn't know how to do that. So basically, it would sometimes be a matter of him humming parts to me if there was a specific riff or lick. Or a lot of times he would look to me and say 'is there anything you hear on this?' Or if it was a solo he'd just open it up to me. You never knew specifically what the process would be on any given song until you started working on it. There were many times when he'd just leave a track in the studio with instructions for me to do something, but a lot of the times he'd give me a bunch of tracks and say 'go in and do anything you hear on it.' More often and not, he would not end up using a lot of the things I would do, but occasionally he might.


reflink: http://www.thelastmiles.c...rviews.php

TLM is George Cole, the author of THE LAST MILES: a detailed bio on Miles Davis in the last phase of his musical career. The link points to Cole's book and there's a catalog of interviews with musicians involved with Miles throughout that period of his life. It's a live document which Cole updates as he finishes transcribing the interviews from tape. This Eric Leeds interview is a fairly recent addition.




No sure why you felt compelled to bring up Stevie...that was curious. eek
[Edited 10/15/06 6:32am]
test
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Reply #9 posted 10/15/06 6:34am

Harlepolis

While I'm sure that reading and writing music is relevent.

We cannot dismiss the other half-group who didn't. Hell, 3/4 of musicians who helped to creat Jazz, RnB, Rock and not to mention P-Funk didn't know what the hell to do with a music sheet.

By ear was the rage, then.
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Reply #10 posted 10/15/06 6:48am

PFunkjazz

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Facts are facts, but not reading/writing doesn't mean someone can't function musically (you just don't get a lot of sessionwork). Not reading or writing certainly calls into question claims of songwriting prowess when only a single composer is credited.

For the most part, George Clinton shared credits with Bernie Worrell (can't speak much on delivering royalty payments) and William Collins, but even Bootsy doesn't read music.
[Edited 10/15/06 6:49am]
test
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Reply #11 posted 10/15/06 6:49am

stopHATING

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Harlepolis said:

While I'm sure that reading and writing music is relevent.

We cannot dismiss the other half-group who didn't. Hell, 3/4 of musicians who helped to creat Jazz, RnB, Rock and not to mention P-Funk didn't know what the hell to do with a music sheet.

By ear was the rage, then.



Okay ?!? Somehow most people DONT understand that only in the "Musical arts" that things are reversed, you can "write" without knowing how to "read". In the "Literary arts" you MUST know how to Read before you can write. Unless of course you're "dictating" to someone who can "write a sentence". so, it's sorta the same thing in a way. That "cart-before-the-horse" concept wins out everytime when creativity is the rule. You need a CREATIVE thought 1st , before anything happens. [ End of discussion ]
"You can go Fly ya Mama's Kite" (c) Prince
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Reply #12 posted 10/15/06 6:56am

DanceWme

Brian Mcknight
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Reply #13 posted 10/15/06 7:12am

PFunkjazz

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stopHATING said:[quote]

Harlepolis said:


Somehow most people DONT understand that only in the "Musical arts" that things are reversed, you can "write" without knowing how to "read".


Hardly.

If you're talking about creating a music sheet that accurately shows the music played then you need to employ a transcriber to whom the illiterate musician can hum musical phrases to and the transcriber can play it back for confirmation. This is the role Leeds describes in his association with Prince. Doesn't seem these people are always credited in the songwriting, but they are very handsomely paid.

Lacking such a Svengali, modern computer technology lets you put your musical thoughts direct to notation. Given the current quagmire of contemporary music one can get by being musically illiterate.
test
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Reply #14 posted 10/15/06 7:19am

stopHATING

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PFunkjazz said:[quote]

stopHATING said:

Harlepolis said:


Somehow most people DONT understand that only in the "Musical arts" that things are reversed, you can "write" without knowing how to "read".


Hardly.

If you're talking about creating a music sheet that accurately shows the music played then you need to employ a transcriber to whom the illiterate musician can hum musical phrases to and the transcriber can play it back for confirmation. This is the role Leeds describes in his association with Prince. Doesn't seem these people are always credited in the songwriting, but they are very handsomely paid.

Lacking such a Svengali, modern computer technology lets you put your musical thoughts direct to notation. Given the current quagmire of contemporary music one can get by being musically illiterate.


LOG OFF, Bruh. shit went over yo head. and thanks for posting on "Eric Leeds.org" And, on behalf of ALL the "so-called" illiterate Genius' out there, I say
LOG OFF !!!!
[Edited 10/15/06 7:19am]
[Edited 10/15/06 12:49pm]
"You can go Fly ya Mama's Kite" (c) Prince
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Reply #15 posted 10/15/06 7:46am

PFunkjazz

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Check yourself, dork. This is Music: Non-Prince where the informed try to clue in the poor spelling barely literate Prince-geeks on Prince.org.
test
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Reply #16 posted 10/15/06 7:58am

stopHATING

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PFunkjazz said:

Check yourself, dork. This is Music: Non-Prince where the informed try to clue in the poor spelling barely literate Prince-geeks on Prince.org.


Poor typing at best. I see you're the resident "E-Thug".
LOG da Fuck OFF, transcriber
"You can go Fly ya Mama's Kite" (c) Prince
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Reply #17 posted 10/15/06 8:01am

PFunkjazz

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At least I can read music. razz
test
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Reply #18 posted 10/15/06 8:12am

murph

PFunkjazz said:

Facts are facts, but not reading/writing doesn't mean someone can't function musically (you just don't get a lot of sessionwork). Not reading or writing certainly calls into question claims of songwriting prowess when only a single composer is credited.[Edited 10/15/06 6:49am]



This is one of the more snobbish statements I've read on the Org....You obviously know your shit, that much has to be said...But, who's talking about session work??? We are talking about total musicians...And while a person who reads music has a leg up on "session" players who don't, I think this thread is beyond that...There are so many iconic and complete artists/musicians/composers out there who do not read music that it hardly matters in the big scheme of things...Technology has nothing to do with it...You have to have the creative ideas first before anything else...I would place Stevie's and Prince's prime musical prowess against any of their peers that can read music...
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Reply #19 posted 10/15/06 8:20am

stopHATING

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PFunkjazz said:

At least I can read music. razz



That's what "Transribers" do.
The "Illiterate" create the music YOU to write down.

I wish I could play or make music, cause I would make sure I had the talent for music "itself" ( being able to Hear & Feel music ) before I would concern myself with the art of trying to figure out what someone with Talent & "Orignal" ideas were doin' Those who can, DO. Those who can't ? TRANSCRIBE .
or they become "E-thugs" on message boards. Trying to big-up the most un-creative way in the world to approach music : On PAPER? To think I used to dig your screename paatna.
lol lol lol
"You can go Fly ya Mama's Kite" (c) Prince
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Reply #20 posted 10/15/06 8:28am

stopHATING

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murph said:

PFunkjazz said:

Facts are facts, but not reading/writing doesn't mean someone can't function musically (you just don't get a lot of sessionwork). Not reading or writing certainly calls into question claims of songwriting prowess when only a single composer is credited.[Edited 10/15/06 6:49am]



This is one of the more snobbish statements I've read on the Org....You obviously know your shit, that much has to be said...But, who's talking about session work??? We are talking about total musicians...And while a person who reads music has a leg up on "session" players who don't, I think this thread is beyond that...There are so many iconic and complete artists/musicians/composers out there who do not read music that it hardly matters in the big scheme of things...Technology has nothing to do with it...You have to have the creative ideas first before anything else...I would place Stevie's and Prince's prime musical prowess against any of their peers that can read music...



Get em , MURPH !!!!!
"You can go Fly ya Mama's Kite" (c) Prince
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Reply #21 posted 10/15/06 9:04am

PFunkjazz

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murph said:

PFunkjazz said:

Facts are facts, but not reading/writing doesn't mean someone can't function musically (you just don't get a lot of sessionwork). Not reading or writing certainly calls into question claims of songwriting prowess when only a single composer is credited.[Edited 10/15/06 6:49am]



This is one of the more snobbish statements I've read on the Org....You obviously know your shit, that much has to be said...But, who's talking about session work??? We are talking about total musicians...And while a person who reads music has a leg up on "session" players who don't, I think this thread is beyond that...There are so many iconic and complete artists/musicians/composers out there who do not read music that it hardly matters in the big scheme of things...Technology has nothing to do with it...You have to have the creative ideas first before anything else...I would place Stevie's and Prince's prime musical prowess against any of their peers that can read music...



That was in parentheses. That indicates it's not the main thought.
It amazes me how having knowledge becomes a snobbish statement, but that's a typical response I expect from those who are insecure in their ability to acquire knowledge. It's not like it's being denied you.

Session players have a role and it is what it is. Why does that sound like they are competing with so-called "iconic and complete artists/musicians/composers"? They have a sympathetic relationship, not anti-thetical.
test
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Reply #22 posted 10/15/06 9:17am

murph

PFunkjazz said:

murph said:




This is one of the more snobbish statements I've read on the Org....You obviously know your shit, that much has to be said...But, who's talking about session work??? We are talking about total musicians...And while a person who reads music has a leg up on "session" players who don't, I think this thread is beyond that...There are so many iconic and complete artists/musicians/composers out there who do not read music that it hardly matters in the big scheme of things...Technology has nothing to do with it...You have to have the creative ideas first before anything else...I would place Stevie's and Prince's prime musical prowess against any of their peers that can read music...



That was in parentheses. That indicates it's not the main thought.
It amazes me how having knowledge becomes a snobbish statement, but that's a typical response I expect from those who are insecure in their ability to acquire knowledge. It's not like it's being denied you.

Session players have a role and it is what it is. Why does that sound like they are competing with so-called "iconic and complete artists/musicians/composers"? They have a sympathetic relationship, not anti-thetical.


Oh, trust me...I'm always down to learn something new...In fact, I come from a musical background...Some of my family members play instruments and read music...But your previous statements were less about "acquiring knowledge" and more about criticizing the musical accomplishments of artists who do not read music...And to me that fits under the billing of snobbery....Improving yourself as a musician is one thing...Dismissing the the skill of musicians who don't fit your narrow view of what constitutes a "total musician" is quite another....
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Reply #23 posted 10/15/06 9:21am

PFunkjazz

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stopHATING said:

PFunkjazz said:

At least I can read music. razz



That's what "Transribers" do.
The "Illiterate" create the music YOU to write down.

I wish I could play or make music, cause I would make sure I had the talent for music "itself" ( being able to Hear & Feel music ) before I would concern myself with the art of trying to figure out what someone with Talent & "Orignal" ideas were doin' Those who can, DO. Those who can't ? TRANSCRIBE .
or they become "E-thugs" on message boards. Trying to big-up the most un-creative way in the world to approach music : On PAPER? To think I used to dig your screename paatna.
lol lol lol



I guess you could go take music lessons instead of hanging around your computer.

Funny how implying Prince is musically illiterate has turned this into a flame-war. Get over your feelings of insecurity. My first post was not an attack on you or Prince, but a simple statement of facts with verifiable links. Admittedly, it was intended to dispute fanboy claims of Prince being able to read or write music, but I have not said he wasn't creative (well not yet).

Finally, I haven't "e-thugged you". You came at me with this LOG OFF crap and said I didn't know what I was talking about. Check yourself, buddy. You sound pretty fucking stupid.

I've been around here for quite a while. Off & on. I admit I'm a real flaky Prince fan. I don't know if I know you, but check my post history and you'll see how I usually post around here. If you can't take it ignore my threads. I could care less what you think of my screen-name.
test
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Reply #24 posted 10/15/06 9:30am

PFunkjazz

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murph said:

PFunkjazz said:




That was in parentheses. That indicates it's not the main thought.
It amazes me how having knowledge becomes a snobbish statement, but that's a typical response I expect from those who are insecure in their ability to acquire knowledge. It's not like it's being denied you.

Session players have a role and it is what it is. Why does that sound like they are competing with so-called "iconic and complete artists/musicians/composers"? They have a sympathetic relationship, not anti-thetical.


Oh, trust me...I'm always down to learn something new...In fact, I come from a musical background...Some of my family members play instruments and read music...But your previous statements were less about "acquiring knowledge" and more about criticizing the musical accomplishments of artists who do not read music...And to me that fits under the billing of snobbery....Improving yourself as a musician is one thing...Dismissing the the skill of musicians who don't fit your narrow view of what constitutes a "total musician" is quite another....


Did you learn to read and analyze English or do you just look at the symbols on the paper?

The thread starts with praising Prince as a total musician. Supposedly because he reads and writes music, among other things. He neither reads nor writes. Is that a criticism or just a statement of facts?

So because your family members play music, you have a musical background? eek
test
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Reply #25 posted 10/15/06 9:32am

stopHATING

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PFunkjazz said:

murph said:




This is one of the more snobbish statements I've read on the Org....You obviously know your shit, that much has to be said...But, who's talking about session work??? We are talking about total musicians...And while a person who reads music has a leg up on "session" players who don't, I think this thread is beyond that...There are so many iconic and complete artists/musicians/composers out there who do not read music that it hardly matters in the big scheme of things...Technology has nothing to do with it...You have to have the creative ideas first before anything else...I would place Stevie's and Prince's prime musical prowess against any of their peers that can read music...



That was in parentheses. That indicates it's not the main thought.
It amazes me how having knowledge becomes a snobbish statement, but that's a typical response I expect from those who are insecure in their ability to acquire knowledge. It's not like it's being denied you.

Session players have a role and it is what it is. Why does that sound like they are competing with so-called "iconic and complete artists/musicians/composers"? They have a sympathetic relationship, not anti-thetical.



Can ya'll believe this craziness ???
Playa, you need to change your screename to "PFAKEsnob"
and, oh yeah...it's CORRECTLY spelled : "Parenthesis"
Allow me..
"Parenthesis"
Part of Speech: noun
Definition: deviation

Synonyms: apostrophe, aside, deflection, departure, detour, difference, discursion, divagation, divergence, diversion, drifting, episode, excursion, excursus, footnote, incident, obiter dictum, parenthesis, rambling, straying, variation, wandering

*Damn, Homie... you should've LOGGED OFF when I 1st suggested it*
[Edited 10/15/06 9:33am]
"You can go Fly ya Mama's Kite" (c) Prince
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Reply #26 posted 10/15/06 9:38am

PFunkjazz

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stopHATING said:

PFunkjazz said:




That was in parentheses. That indicates it's not the main thought.
It amazes me how having knowledge becomes a snobbish statement, but that's a typical response I expect from those who are insecure in their ability to acquire knowledge. It's not like it's being denied you.

Session players have a role and it is what it is. Why does that sound like they are competing with so-called "iconic and complete artists/musicians/composers"? They have a sympathetic relationship, not anti-thetical.



Can ya'll believe this craziness ???
Playa, you need to change your screename to "PFAKEsnob"
and, oh yeah...it's CORRECTLY spelled : "Parenthesis"
Allow me..
"Parenthesis"
Part of Speech: noun
Definition: deviation

Synonyms: apostrophe, aside, deflection, departure, detour, difference, discursion, divagation, divergence, diversion, drifting, episode, excursion, excursus, footnote, incident, obiter dictum, parenthesis, rambling, straying, variation, wandering

*Damn, Homie... you should've LOGGED OFF when I 1st suggested it*
[Edited 10/15/06 9:33am]



Dude you are showing how totally stupid you are. That is the plural spelling.
Do you use just one parenthesis?

Next time, make sure you copy the entire definition.



yeah that was a typo


Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.0.1) - Cite This Source
pa‧ren‧the‧sis  /pəˈrɛnθəsɪs/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[puh-ren-thuh-sis] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation

–noun, plural -ses /-ˌsiz/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[-seez] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation. 1. either or both of a pair of signs ( ) used in writing to mark off an interjected explanatory or qualifying remark, to indicate separate groupings of symbols in mathematics and symbolic logic, etc.
2. Usually, parentheses. the material contained within these marks.
3. Grammar. a qualifying, explanatory, or appositive word, phrase, clause, or sentence that interrupts a syntactic construction without otherwise affecting it, having often a characteristic intonation and indicated in writing by commas, parentheses, or dashes, as in William Smith—you must know him—is coming tonight.



Idiot.
[Edited 10/15/06 9:39am]
test
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Reply #27 posted 10/15/06 10:02am

murph

PFunkjazz said:

murph said:



Oh, trust me...I'm always down to learn something new...In fact, I come from a musical background...Some of my family members play instruments and read music...But your previous statements were less about "acquiring knowledge" and more about criticizing the musical accomplishments of artists who do not read music...And to me that fits under the billing of snobbery....Improving yourself as a musician is one thing...Dismissing the the skill of musicians who don't fit your narrow view of what constitutes a "total musician" is quite another....


Did you learn to read and analyze English or do you just look at the symbols on the paper?

The thread starts with praising Prince as a total musician. Supposedly because he reads and writes music, among other things. He neither reads nor writes. Is that a criticism or just a statement of facts?

So because your family members play music, you have a musical background? eek


You see, the difference between you and I is that in my initial post I kept it civil...You notice I was actually complimenting your musical knowledge....But then you had to come with this sucker punch....Dude, on the real, it's not that serious...I made some comments and you got pretty emotional about it....

My point is this: Pointing out that a great, iconic, and influential musician, whether it's Prince or Stevie Wonder, does not read music is an astute point...But your rationale for bringing up this point seems to be coming from an musically elitist point of view....The person that started this thread has never claimed that Prince reads music....That's part of the man's folklore...It is what it is...But the fact that he does not read music is meaningless to him being a complete musician...Because during my time in the music industry, Ive never heard an executive or a music historian say that the midget wasn't a complete musician because he doesn't read music....
[Edited 10/15/06 10:14am]
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Reply #28 posted 10/15/06 10:30am

PFunkjazz

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Nothing's personal. You're just indistuighable from the other guy.
If you feel snubbed by tripping off a perceived elitism, then it's all on you.
Enjoy your folklore.
test
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Reply #29 posted 10/15/06 10:38am

murph

PFunkjazz said:

Nothing's personal. You're just indistuighable from the other guy.
If you feel snubbed by tripping off a perceived elitism, then it's all on you.
Enjoy your folklore.




Did I ever tell you to log off? Did I ever call you a name? I missed that one...You're placing me in the line of fire because of a spat that you're having with someone else...Again, you've made it personal because I never said anything remotely disrespectful towards you...That's the difference...And if you can't see that, then I'll treat you the way you want to be treated....
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