I've been watching some VH1 Classic stuff on Jimi - a documentary on Electric Lady Land and some random snippets about the Experience here and there.

What I cannot figure out is why the mainstream consensus seems to be that Noel and Mitch were such great musicians and that the Experience was Jimi's best band.

In terms of musicianship, I think the Band of Gypsys project far exceeded anything the Experience did. Buddy and Billy brought the best of of Jimi. Whenever I listen to their music, his playing seems to be on another level with them. His work with the Experience sounds like what it was - Jimi with a backing band. However, the Gypsys sound more like an actual band - a cohesive unit.

What do you all think?

bellanoche said:

No doubt you'll see this a knock, but I totally disagree. I treasue BOG for what it means in the "black rock experience", but BOG was more a jamming unit than a band. They are not anywhere as innovative as Experience. Your assessment of Experience as a "backing band" is so totally off-base. We'll just have to disagree.

Note I am not knocking BOG. I believe they would have lived up to the pedigree of Experience, but they didn't last past the live dates that got recorded. Maybe there was an [b]ELECTRIC LADYLAND[/b] or ARE YOU EXPERIENCED? in them but it choked on Jimi's vomit.

More than likely, this is because the "Experience" band retains the recorded legacy (AYE, Axis, EL, etc.).
Due to the untimely death of Jimi Hendrix, the Band of Gypsys never had time to develope a history on record.
One never knows if they would have even continued as a band.

The historic Fillmore recording gave some insight into their potential and became the template for Funk/Rock bands of the future.
It would have been interesting to see what that particular aggregation would have developed into.


tA

Tribal Disorder

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B.O.G is one of my favorite classic LP's. That LP paved the way for a lot of stuff that came after it. The 1st time I heard it I was like "Where's Purple Haze, Where's Fire, Where's Voodoo Chile?"...It was too heavy on me as a kid so I put it away.....Years later (after getting into the guitar), I read cats like Miles loved the B.O.G record. I went back to it and was blown away by it.

Buddy and Billy laid down a foundation so thick and strong and it let Jimi soar in the stratosphere (no pun intended). The home video is great and I always go back to that LP every now and then for musical inspiration. I would have loved to heard Eddie Hazel play with Billy and Buddy back in 93 but it never happened since Eddie passed in 92.

Now the real unanswered question is..Did Jimi stop the B.O.G.because he was tired of Buddy?...or was it a Mike Jeffreys decision to get Jimi back with Mitch and Noel (and not do the "black rock" thing?)

...



Yeah both bands had their strengths.... Mitch was such a dynamic drummer, but I don't think a track like "Who Knows" or "Them Changes" would have sounded so Funky without Buddy Miles....It is interesting That the final band ended up being a combination of sorts, with Cox on Bass and Mitch on the drums....




...
[Edited 10/12/06 15:06pm]

Personally, I think Mitch & Billy were the "best" combo. But, of course Buddy
brought the FUNK. and aside from Buddy's energy being too much for Jimi, I think
That was THE Hendrix lp that made most Black Folk take notice. probably cause
there was more "R" in the R&B? ( backbeat) for the average black listener then.
I've heard people say that Band of Gypsys was too "Black" as well. I dunno?

Aahhh, I see the ususal suspects are on board this thread and all of ya'll, please move over cuz I'm climbin' on this ship! I've posted on this topic a few times in the past and my words won't change. The Experience was a band and more crucial; Jimi's FIRST band when he broke in England. Obviously, Jimi's most well known songs and albums come from this line-up. Jimi's most well known image, visually, came from this line-up. That said, the Gypsys were HELLA crucial. For many different reasons. I've always said on here that I NEVER dug Noel. Jimi took him mainly cuz Jimi dug Noel's hair. Jimi wrote and recorded several of the basslines while Noel was in the group. Which says what? Now Mitch was a different story. Mitch was the perfect drummer for Jimi, period. His skills were on the level to where he could keep up with Jimi and at times, even challenge Jimi to go "further out". I do dig Buddy and his in the pocket style, which was also good for Jimi. Actually, I dig the lineup with Cox on bass and Mitch on skins the best.

stopHATING said:

I can dig it. And uh, for the record; There is no such thing as "too black". The blacker, the better. The harder u rock, the "blacker" u are.

Underrated??


Who Knows








http://www.youtube.com/wa...NRwCPMRGYE

blackguitaristz said:

Hahaha !! Okay ?!?! *Wait, you're gonna get looked at as "Hating"*
I know we're Here >< but, I thought I'd chill on too much of that today
since I'd been in that "Lynching" thread all day. lol I've always had a
problem with the term "BLACK ROCK" that's some reel "cart-before-the-horse-ness"

stopHATING said:

me too

You all have added some interesting thoughts to this discussion. My mind hasn't changed, but I like hearing other opinions.

What constantly bothers me is the fact that folks seem to focus on the "blackness" of the BOG. It's kind of like the debate about the Revolution and Prince's subsequent "blacker" bands. Based on that racial angle, that might be part of the reason that BOG are underrated.



I couldn't agree more - well put! Oh Eddie Hazel, another underrated guitar god!!!

I, too dug the Jimi, Mitch, Billy configuration. Mitch's playing seemed to drive Jimi (my fave Jimi/Mitch interplay is on "Fire") and Billy was the epitome of a bass player - he wasn't a guitarist masquerading as a bassist, ala Noel Redding. Billy knew his position in the band and did a hell of a job at it.

BTW, there's a great cover story about the Band of Gypsys in the October 2006 Guitar One magazine. Earlier this year, Billy and Miles released The Band of Gypsys Return, with Eric Gales (one of my faves) and Hendrix acolyte/music journalist/music transcriber Andy Aledort, playing guitar.

theAudience said:[quote]More than likely, this is because the "Experience" band retains the recorded legacy (AYE, Axis, EL, etc.).


The historic Fillmore
became the template for Funk/Rock bands of the future.

well isnt that enough.

nuff said..thats Legacy right there.

JesseDezz said:

Band of Gypsies is my fave Hendrix album and was the Hendrix record that made me really love him.

Far as the Buddy vs. Mitch debate, Jimi hated all the grandstanding Buddy did (apparently Buddy did about twice as much scat singing as is heard on the album because Jimi had the engineer cut a ton of it out) and that was one of the reasons he got back with Mitch (besides the fact that Mitch was a better fit)

Buddy is a total groove drummer, I'd daresay one of the first hip hop drummers, just laid back, played the groove like his life depended on it, whereas Mitch came from more of a jazz background and was more responsive to what the other members of the group were playing. Both drummers have their places and I prefer Mitch overall, but Buddy is a great player in his own right. But I also think Jimi's playing on this LP was some of the best live playing from him I've ever heard.

JesseDezz said:

Wow, thanks so much. I wondered what happened to Eric Gales. I still have that cassette with "Sign of the Storm." I remember when Arsenio had him on. I was so excited, because I had been listening to him for some time and was happy to seem him get a little overdue exposure.

blackguitaristz said:

bellanoche said:

You want some Eric Gales - here he is: http://www.youtube.com/wa...DRUcWiCL_Q

This one guy has posted all of his "Arsenio" appearances and some other cool stuff. Enjoy!

BUDDY MILES WAS HORRIBLE!
His voice should be illegal!

Jesse..Thanks so much for the Eric Gales clips..I almost forgot how badd that brother was. His version of "Little Wing" brought tears to my eyes. You the man!

mikek1 said:

Jimi not singing lead in his own band is a sore spot among those who favor Experience over BoG. IMO, Buddy's fine and the more soul-oriented stylings distinguish the two bands, but I'd rather hear Jimi.

mikek1 said:

BUDDY MILES' VOICE WAS HORRIBLE ?!?!?!?!?!
CRACK should be illegal...wait , damn it IS !

JesseDezz said:

Good lookin Out !! I have this on tape the nite it aired.

The Band of Gypsys aren't as highly regarded as the Experience, because they weren't as good. Jimi was relaxed in the Band of Gypsys - there was none of that tension that makes all great rock bands and records. You could have dropped any two competent studio musicians behind Jimi and they would have sounded like the Band of Gypsys. But it'd be impossible to replicate the raggedy excitingness of Mitch and Noel.

Dissecting it a bit, Buddy Miles is the root of the problem, since Gypsy Sun & Rainbows, his Woodstock Band, with Billy and Mitch, were good, and it's a performance where Jimi's playing really takes off, far more than it does on Band of Gypsys IMO.

I like Band of Gypsys, it's good Sunday morning listening. The expanded double Live at the Fillmore CD becomes boring after a while. I would consider it to be a few throwaway shows and nothing more. Remember, he only put the record out to fulfil his $1 contract with Ed Chalpin. Looking at where Hendrix wanted to go post 1970, everything I've read would suggest that he was looking for a more expansive, orchestral sound, quite removed from the BOG sound. Electric Church!

Rowdy said:

A few more thoughts on this issue.

IMO the Band of Gypsys project, outside of the Chapin obligation, was the point where Jimi put his foot down (specifically on the throat of one Michael Jeffery) and decided to not continue the guitar-smashing, amp-humping that in his mind had become a circus act but to stand or fall based on his skills as a musician.

Anyone could see a change had to be made musically as he had progressed beyond material that could be reproduced by a 3 piece band. Reportedly Jimi wanted to enlist the services of Steve Winwood as one possible addition but was too shy too ask him feeling he (Jimi) wasn't good enough. However anyone listening to the sound and musical rapport created on Voodoo Chile could only imagine what they might have produced together.

Buddy Miles, as overbearing as he became with the trio, deserves some credit in a few areas on his own.
Due to his pre-Gypsys association with Hendrix as producer...



...of the first 2 Buddy Miles Express albums, I believe Buddy was one of the main acts responsible for introducing a rocked-up version of the traditional horn based Soul show & revue format (his background as well as Jimi's) to the 60s Rock audience.
This was attempted earlier with guitarist Mike Bloomfield and The Electric Flag...



...Although a very good band, they never achieved the raw power or popularity of the Express.

When under control, Buddy was also a more than adequate R&B vocalist (Don't Mess With Cupid, Cigarettes and Coffee, Memphis Train, Wholesale Love, etc.)
He was very adept at updated R&B flavored covers (Dreams, Don't Keep Me Wonderin', Down by the River) but knocked off a few classic instrumentals (Funky Mule, Paul B. Allen, 69 Freedom Special).
Most notably Joe Tex. This was a tune that many that played in horn-based Show & Revue bands in the early 70s used as a warm up tune before the "stars" were brought on.


Based on his own expanding musical vision and eventual connection with another visionary, Miles Davis,...



...I do believe that ultimately Jimi had his mind set on a different direction with a larger-format band.


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Tribal Disorder

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theAudience said:

It's really GOOD to see that someone else has Buddy's back!
Remember Buddy's "You don't have a kind word to say"
His only real problem was remembering that it was JIMI that folks still wanted to see & hear. even tho they were supposedly a "band"

One of the Encore channels showed a documentary about The Band of Gypsys. They were before my time, So that was the first time I ever heard their music. I loved it! Man those cats were GOOD! No doubt like the rest of Hendryx music, Any B.O.G recordings are probably very hard to get a hold of. I would love to have a cd of all their stuff.

theAudience said:

According to the book Room Full Of Mirrors, Jimi wanted the experience to have a horn section. I think he always wanted to expand even from the beginning. The BOG sound really strikes a good chord with me. I am looking foward to the baggy rehearsals.

stopHATING said:

Not really familiar with the More Miles per Gallon release.


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Tribal Disorder

http://www.soundclick.com...dID=182431