whoever nyoil is, he is telling the truth.

Wow. Look, somebody went and remade "Putney Swope" ... but forgot the irony.

sallysassalot said:

Really? That's interesting. They should be lynched? Murdered? On what basis is that ever "the truth?"

I think Nyoil raises some important points, a good 99% of which I agree with. But, as with a lot of popular music, lit, art, etc., his excess taints the poignance of his message.

As an aside, one thing I find laughably disingenuous about commentary on this sort of thing is that certain people who are here inclined to agree with Nyoil would elsewhere break their necks to castigate many of the figures he extols as having their good legacies mocked. Where is their reverence of Malcolm X and Huey Newton, for example, when the finger of accountability is pointed -- at Malcolm and Huey's behest -- at their possible culpability in the plight of African Americans? And are they so excited over the opportunity to agree with a chastening of black folk that they, in fact, overlook Nyoil's criticism of folk like Condi Rice, who in other conversations they might defend as if she were the Virgin Mary?

I'd remind them to co-sign critiques, even harsh critiques, of destructive subcultures within the black community where those critiques are warranted. But by all means consistency makes all the difference in the efficacy of their position.
[Edited 10/12/06 21:29pm]

Lammastide said:

because you quoted me...and because you know i'm not black...i assume the majority of that comment was directed to me or, at least, to those who fit a similar bill.

i respect malcolm x's legacy as well as huey newton. i find it rather curious that you would make the assumption i (or those fitting a similar bill) don't have a reverence for them. I once had respect for Condelleeza Rice, a lot actually. She has has continually proven herself to be a disappoint to me and my opinion of her reflects that.

eagerness to enjoy a little chastizing of the black population, eh? personally i think its quite sad that there are figures of any race who deserve such awful chastening.

i suppose i shouldn't agree with bamboozled either, huh?

...And I'd love to know your thoughts on Bamboozled, Sassy. Go for it.

Lammastide said:

i think its my favorite spike lee film. but then i watch school daze or crooklyn or do the right thing or mo better blues or jungle fever or clockers or...

seriously, though, i think its easily one of his best films.

sallysassalot said:

I make no such assumptions about you or any "bill" you may or may not fit, actually. I don't know you well enough. My observation stands based on the recurrent lack of consistency I see in people who are all over this kind of reproach on the one hand, but not the equal reproach of groups perhaps closer to home... by the same critics, no less. To that extent, yes, it's quite sad anyone deserves such chastening. But at least they're all in good, diverse company, huh?

And my quoting you has more to do with the "truth" that you find in Nyoil's claim. (And to be frank, I'm still confused. ) The various points he raises aside, that people should be murdered seems incompatible with any truth I've ever come across.
[Edited 10/12/06 22:22pm]

Lammastide said:

the truth i'm claiming is the pathetic imagery of what is "urban" today in contrast to the work pioneers such as malcolm x, martin luther king jr, vernon johns, bayard rustin, fred shuttlesworth accomplished and struggled for. by degrading the image of blacks in pop culture...ehem, in the modern day minstrel show that is blck pop culture...they help to weaken the life's work of so many who've helped tp shape black society in this country.

sallysassalot said:

I know what you mean. Spike digs deep. Bamboozled is difficult to watch, though. There's something about the posthumous narrative that just makes the whole movie seem almost..."spooky." It's an amazing commentary, though. Really challenges us to face our own faults, ego, self-loathing, arrogance, complicity to a screwed-up world... well, you get what I'm saying.

Lammastide said:

i think one of the most profound things about bamboozled is spike's ability to get the audience laughing for the first half of the film only to stop dead in the middle and force you to question why it was you were laughing in the first place.

stopHATING said:

It's giving voice to what many people are thinking, even on this forum. It'll be interesting to see how the actual delivery of this message is received.

Hip hop started out saying they were all about "keepin it real" It has long since been hijacked by interested parties who found a way to commercialize and cash in on the "thug life" and "bling" mentality.

Who's pimpin' who?

~pass me the salt~

ThreadBare said:

You rock, man. What'd you think of Bamboozled in comparison to Putney Swope?

There's some good stuff in there, but I also took from it that it's still a-okay to call a black woman a "bitch" and that she should "suck my dick" if she looks the part. He's not afraid to point out bad behavior and label somebody a coon but still uses "n*gga" liberally. Nice try...maybe next time.

TommyRoss said:

that's totally the underlying current i took away from it as well.

Handclapsfingasnapz said:

maybe the point is, that he's just angry at the whole scene, and maybe he feels like calling these people "bitches" and "niggas" is the only language they understand.

http://www.bolt.com/NYOIL...ch/2397339


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[Edited 10/12/06 13:33pm]