Ok as you know i dont really have any love for most of todays producers, this issue is mostly aimed at producers like Timbaland,Pharrell,Scott Storch etc..

The main problem is that you can listen to a song and know who produced it, but its not supposed to be that way. The artist is supposed to be the forefront not the producer. Lets look at the late Arif Mardin, Ok he produced records for Chaka Kahn, "Jive Talkin" for the beegees, "Abandoned Luncheonette" for Hall and Oates, "Come away with me" Norah Jones, now if you didnt look at the liner notes you would have never known that. But i can turn on the radio or MTV and know, that Pharrell produced this or that, or Tim did Justin. A combination of Artists and Producers have created this glut in the industry, and also quotes like this from a new RB singer "I wanna get pharrel to produce my track, so i can sound like the others", therein lies the problem.

I agree.

lastdecember said:

When you talent is limited to the beats in your drum machine, this is what you get.

6sixx6 said:

lastdecember said:

Thing is, a lot of the beats are rehashes of old beats from my high school & college days. So I'm hearing the same sh!t with weak voices.
[Edited 9/25/06 15:11pm]

The problem with alot of today's R&B producers is...they simply don't know how to construct a song.Producers like Timbalind,Lil John,Rodney Jerkins and Jermaine Dupri are more concerned with beats.They don't know a thing about melody....or coming up with a strong bridge.These guys aren't even real musicians.They just program beats and samples,which is not the same thing as creating a song from scratch.Timbalind has to put his own voice over every song he produces,and that becomes very annoying.

Today's R&B music scene is so boring because most of the artists work with the same producers.That's why everything sounds the same.When I was growing up,we had producers like Gamble and Huff,Quincy Jones,Thom Bell,Maurice White,Arif Mardin,Freddie Perrin,etc....REAL PRODUCERS who knew what the hell they were doing!

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[Edited 9/26/06 7:08am]

lastdecember said:

curious, are u an artist yourself? or maybe in the business?

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u edit
[Edited 9/26/06 1:01am]

Christopher said:

Any music fan can write that!

MikeMatronik said:

i know but im asking him/her if they infact in the business not cause i was wow'ed by what they wrote.

Yes.

I agree with everything that's been said. The worse thing is the zombies who pay money for this shit. The public is being insulted and they don't even realise it, nor do they particularly care.

SoulAlive said:

$$$$$ post!!!!!

SoulAlive said:

Ndeed!!



...

I think this started happening in the 80's when you didn't really need to know how to play an instrument or understand music notation to be a producer/musician. This was at least the case with R&B music. In addditon I think alot had to do with producers finding a niche/style that worked at radio and that's all the record companies wanted to hear. Basically it was all about following a model that sold records.

The country market is the exact same way. Tim McGraw will have a hit with a certain tune or sound and everyone else spends all their time and money trying to replicate that. Sad that that is what so many in music try to do rather than being creative and making their OWN music.

So what will it take to turn things around? Your theories/thoughts please...

wonder505 said:

The CONSUMER must stop buying this stuff.

Producer has a different connotation in hip hop.

In other kinds of music, the producer records the music, but in hip hop the producer actually makes most of it.

NDRU said:

Before I misunderstand your post, can you clarify your statement? Do you mean producers in hip hop "make" meaning "create" music?

tpzlamont said:

Flyte Tyme, Laface, even Prince helped get this going.

It really doesn't help matters if the artist doesn't bring much to the table themselves other than a voice and a look.

wonder505 said:

Yeah, my understanding is that producers like Dre & Timbaland are actually musicians (whether they're good musicians is another matter). They don't just sit behind a mixing board, they create beats & basslines, keyboard lines, etc.

Of course they probably do sit behind the board too (like a traditional producer) like when they're recording a guitar or the vocals.

Again, this is my understanding, most likely someone will say I'm completely wrong.

I should add that LOTS of traditional producers are also musicians, but they don't usually play on the recordings (unless they're producing themselves ala Prince, of course!).
[Edited 9/26/06 13:06pm]

The biggest problem is that producers want to be stars. Yeah, true, it didn't used to be that way. Hell, producers didn't used to get a credit. There realy should be a happy meduim where the artists and producer have a signature sound (David Bowie and Tony Vosconti, for example).

wonder505 said:

No one knows the answer, but here are my thoughts. The problem for years has been that power has been in the hands of a very small group of people. These people are not musicians. They are businessmen, accountants, and lawyers. They have stockholders to answer to. If their quarterly figures aren't good enough they are fired. This creates a climate where labels are only interested in safe bets and short term profits. In the past, legends like Prince, U2, Bruce Springsteen were given time to develop. Executives bought into their vision and would give them time to find an audience. Now, because they need quick results, they only want imitations of the latest trend. This is why hip hop videos haven't changed in 10 years.

The good news though is that labels' power is crumbling as we speak thanks to the internet. No one knows where the myspace, youtube revolution is going, but it's clear the status quo can't and won't be able to continue. Record company profits are shrinking year on year. This will have to have an effect on the music itself, as labels won't be able to artificially filter the talent pool so easily, and more visionary artists may find they can reach an audience on their own. Labels will then be forced to change, which can only be for the better.

Again, exactly where this is going, no one knows, but the forces of change are already in motion.
[Edited 9/26/06 13:29pm]

I think Timbaland is more varied than the others. Yes, he has a signature sound. OTOH, there were plenty of people who thought "No Hay Igual" was a Neptunes production.

minneapolisgenius said:

Me 2. In fact I don't listen to nowadays music. The only records I've heard this year are 3121, Back to Basics, Corinne Bailey Rae and that's it.

A good example is diddy. He is a good businessman and is good at finding
some talent but he is no musician. He sits behind the board and turn knobs
very often using someone else's music to create a hit. We want even talk
about his wack ass rapping skills. Diddy should really stay behind the scenes
and produce if that is what you call it. He himself is very weak as an
artist.

phunkdaddy said:

Bad Boy's time has come and gone. The music they're putting out is getting worse with each new cd. And these Making the Band artists have destroyed any credibility they had left.

SoulAlive said:

First off, you are way off about Rodney. He's a hell of a keyboard player and if anything he sometimes overcrowds a lot of his songs with melodies without filling in the middle and the bottom end.
Second off, MANY producers (including Prince) have a signature sound. Producers like Jimmy & Terry and Trevor Horn are better because they work with the artists' sound but its not uncommon for most producers to put something in their work as a watermark of sorts.
Also, to the rest of you:
A while back I posted Timbaland's resume on a thread. His list of productions is RIDICULOUS. He is prolific as hell. The problem is that EVERYBODY wants him and the Neptunes to produce their songs. Unlike Pharrell & Co., Timbaland actually seems to try to accomodate as many people (who can afford him) as possible. He knows from looking at Teddy Riley that once his sound is over, he's probably done, so he's trying to ride the wave til it hits the shore and who can blame him? Which one of you would turn down the kind of cash they offer him for doing what you love to do? He has shown with Aalyiah's material that he can write good stuff when he wants to and when he's not being stretched thin.
The Neptunes are the laziest production team out there and I agree that they are far overblown for no reason. Pharrell has let things out of the studio that are inexcusable by normal standards. He should just stick to his N*E*R*D* project where his output is best.
Its easy to bust out the producers but why? Its not their fault for doing what they get paid to do. Everybody always seems to excuse the evil white males at the top of the pile for making it all happen and piss on the scapegoats. Its not Timb, Nept, JD, Rod's fault that the business is producer-based. Look at the names of the label heads. There's your problem. Why is everyone scared to point the finger where it belongs?

BlaqueKnight said:

Maybe because they don't like making a racial issue out of everything and they're not necessarily looking at these producers as black people but as just people?

squiddyren said:

Regardless of the color of the producers, ITS THE PEOPLE AT THE TOP WHO ARE AT FAULT 100%. If you aren't smart enough to realize and acknowledge that then your opinion is worthless.
[Edited 9/26/06 19:13pm]