I LOVED it,the choregraphy especially!

banks said:

Yep...the middle fingers to the powers that be was some slick shit. The video's clearly not meant to reinvent the wheel, but it was a solid clip. I'm feelin' it.

Ellie said:

You are not alooone
I am here with yooouu

Ellie said:

Nope, I'm right there with you. The video is really nothing much more than 'All Nite' part 2. Honestly, it makes me really wonder what the hell Janet is doing; she was never the most original out of the bunch, but this is just absurd. It's like she is physically unable to try something new.

I can't even find the hook in the song; there's nothing to it but an annoying loop, and some mumbling. Janet was never a great(hell, even good singer) but at least she had a decent tone. Nowadays, even that's gone.

Well, this just made me even more sure that I'm not gonna waste my $10 to buy the album.

Now ya'll. I was afraid to check this thread because I knew it was the calm before the storm.

Well.. It's worth a look-see. Some people are gonna love it; others hate it, then there will be those in between. A lot of people don't even like the dance-video genre in the first place in much the same way some don't like musical theatre--well campy musical theatre or any type of musical theatre at all.

Like I said, if some of you all have ever been Janet fans at all, what kind of dance video would you like to see her do?


Someone mentioned Tina Turner upthread--Tina Turner isn't the same type of performer as Janet, I don't think. This video was not what I would call Tina Turner-ish. No..

I don't think Janet is going to be doing a Tina Turner.. Or maybe she should?
If she is going to remain in the music business and still be Janet, I would think Janet is really going to have to separate herself from her dancers--like she did with "Got Till It's Gone" or "Someone to Call My Lover"?? Or if she is going to continue with dancers, the dancers are going to have to be more in the background as a compliment to Janet rather Janet being part of the corps, ya know? Maybe still a part of the corps like with the video "I Get Lonely," but not so much of an overt production number to where she looks out of place in a way in spite of being an excellent dancer..mind you I think she is just starting to look out of place because Janet obviously still looks wonderful, but I can definitely understand the criticism.

Ah man... I still thought the "So Excited" video was great for the type of video that it was. I actually thought it was choreographically better than "All Nite." For those of you who are undecided, just give it a look-see. Then for others who hate, maybe watch it again? Give it another chance? Well maybe not..

I will say this though, as much I was pleasantly surprised by the video, I don't think she can continue doing the same type of thing indefinitely. If she decides to stay in the music business, she is going to be forced to change her concepts at one point even though she might still be able to dance well and look stunning. I think the answer to my own question is that if Janet is going to remain in the music business, I would hope she would return to doing videos like "Got Till It's Gone." Now that one had a social message without being overt. That was a nice video. And Janet danced, but her dancing was more of a backdrop to the song.

It's just the choreography is so awful. I was a big Janet fan 10-15 years ago. I LOVE the 'If' video - i.e. a memorable dance routine - not to mention far superior song. But this and even 'All Nite (Don't Stop)' look like some choreographer just made it up on the spot, taped it and got everyone to memorise it.

She reminds me so much of Britney these days. You know like the whole 'Toxic' and 'Me Against The Music' routines, so messy and unmemorable.

Ellie said:

and there it is, folks.

Ellie said:

Well, you might be on to something there. I'm not so sure if it's the choreography? I really think Gil is a much more stylized choreographer with more of an Urban flair than some with whom Britney worked. Brian Friedman is/was definitely more hip-POP--Brian just has more jazz influence in his work. Wade Robson.. I don't know. I've never been a huge fan of his, but his style is more Urban than Brian's but for some reason has this pop vibe to it. I don't know why.

Gil--I don't know. Gil is very theatrical--plus he is heavily influenced by more people like Fosse as far as concepts not necessarily movement because Fosse was much more understated. But I guess the difference between Tina and Gil is that Tina Landon seemed to choreography more creatively from the standpoint that she didn't or doesn't use as much club dance trends in her choreography as Gil.. or she didn't (doesn't) seem to appear to be influenced by them. As a result, Tina sort of created trends to a certain extent. Plus I always thought Tina's choreography was more in the background or more complimentary to Janet's musical effort. Tina's work became a focus because it was just that good.

HOWEVER, I'm not suggesting Tina is "better" than Gil. They are just different. Maybe it's because hip-hop has now become more integral in the dance music-video genre than it was when Tina worked with Janet--not to say there wasn't a hip-hop influence with Tina. But it's wasn't quite as pronounced, and it appeared not to be a necessity. Look at the choreography for "What About That," That was very theatrical. Maybe it's a trend sort of issue?

Maybe Gil is just trying too hard? Maybe Gil should try to take a risk a la Tina? In a weird way, maybe Gil is playing it safe by sort of sticking to the trend that seems to prevalent in the pop-music scene even though I think Gil is more urban than Brian. Like I said, Gil MIGHT rely too heavily on sort of club dance?
[Edited 9/14/06 12:00pm]

Ellie said:

WORD!

The only thing that this video has in common with Pleasure Principle is the hairdo.

Janet, WTF happened?

sallysassalot said:

well i happen to like it !!!!

banks said:

Yeah, I really love it, too, but then again I sort of understand the complaint.

Barry Lather designed the choreography for Janet in "Pleasure Principle." From what I can tell with "All Nite" and now this one has incorporated sort of club dance trends... but that may be the trend in dance video choreography right now?

Barry's work with "Pleasure Principle" was not so much a club trend: he created the trend.

I understand what the critics are saying, but I guess I see relevance in both styles. I just don't necessarily prefer one over the other.
[Edited 9/14/06 12:07pm]

Isel said:

I mentioned Tina Turner, actually---I didnt mean to say that they're the same type of performer. Tina's alot more spontaneous, I think. What I meant to say is that both have a certain routine that's recognized by many people. Sticking with Janet, the whole 'fronting a dance troupe' routine is easily recognized with Janet. Even later acts like Britney Spears and, more recently, Beyonce went on to downright imitate it.

Does it bother me that Janet's going back to it? Not really. Apart from The Velvet Rope, Janet's been more associated with being a pop superstar rather than an artistic visionary. And when all else fails, going back to the old classic routine just might be what she needs to get back on MTV and, if she's lucky, the top of the charts.

That said, I think that it represents the fine difference between Janet and Madonna. Madonna's reinvented herself so much that you cant really pin a certain routine on her. And if she did, she'd probably be stubborn about revisiting it. While Madonna, like Janet, can easily be associated with commercial success, I think she's had alot more artistic vision in her work.

banks said:

then it was made for you and the others who happen to like it. obviously i'm only speaking for myself.

sallysassalot said:

no doubt

newskin69 said:

I'm not even a Madonna fan-- I love her tour concepts and some videos, but haven't really connected with her music. But I'm am going to make a bold statement: Madonna does have a vision whether a person agrees with it or not. Madonna doesn’t necessarily seem molded by the people in her life. They help her make her vision into a reality, but they don’t mold her. That’s really the primary difference between Madonna and Janet. So I agree with you as much as it pains me to say it.

Janet just doesn’t have a vision or maybe she has lost her way. She appears to depend too much on the people in her life to have a vision, so she sort of just goes with what she hopes will sell. I'm talking about her romantic interests as well as her creative team--including her choreographers. I think it’s been hit or miss for her. She has been lucky in a sense, most of the people surrounding her have provided her with more hits than misses.

I've been extremely critical of Madonna--extremely. But like her or not, Madonna's product is her vision, and she surrounds herself with people who will stay true to that vision--maybe even making a bigger statement than was originally intended. So hit or miss, at least we know it's Madonna who is pulling the strings. With Janet, I'm not so sure who is exactly responsible anymore.
[Edited 9/14/06 14:01pm]

↑

I just saw the last 5 seconds of this video on B.E.T. and from that I can tell that she has absolutely nothing left to offer her fans anymore except her body when she does that "flashing" thing at the end. She's fucking pathetic
[Edited 9/14/06 15:45pm]

Isel said:

The difference is, Madonna still wants to be doing this. To be creating, and pushing the envelope, even if it's just for herself. With Janet, I get the feeling that from All For You on, she just isn't that engaged with her own career. She's just going through the motions. It shows in the re-treaded music and the re-treaded performances and grabbing attention through controversy, which is not something that was ever her forte (or something she advertently did). It shows in the thousand yard stare in her eyes when she's being interviewed. I just don't think she cares anymore. She's clearly got nothing left to say through her music or her videos, so why is she even still bothering to do this when clearly she isn't interested in it? So why should WE be interested?
[Edited 9/14/06 15:58pm]

The vid was kinda cool.

I must be getting old and growing out of touch.

Vid and song do nothing for me. JJ's 0-2 with her new project, as far as I'm concerned.

Tessa said:

I want to reinterate that I still like the video, too. I have liked most of Janet's work whether it's her vision or not--or whether or not she has a clear-cut vision. My favorite vision was The Velvet Rope. I think that at least she had a concept or topic though. I think she must have had some vision early-on or she would have never broken away from her father. I just don't think that it's like Madonna who is very clear about what she wants to say or do--and then even how to do it. Madonna's background is so completely different. Madonna didn't have a choice to have that vision because she had to work hard to be heard. Janet, other the other hand, had people who were more than willing to help her--to hear her, but her task was trying to create something that was worthy of hearing. And I'm not so sure if she always knew how to go about it. Plus, I believe in a recent interview, her father is the one who told Janet that she could make more money in music than in acting or law. Well, to Janet's credit, at least she tried and succeeded to make her own statement-separate from Michael's. She was (is) smart and concerned enough to do that. She could have been happy just being Michael's little sister and riding off his fame and success. But she did have some sort of statement to make even though ultimately she also needed Terry and Jimmy's help to find it.

As far as Janet's enthusiasm, yeah--I'm not so sure she has it anymore. I really think that people talk her into things OR maybe she is contractually obligated to fulfill certain conditions. I remember with All4YOU, for example, Gil and some others really talked her into touring. She admitted it.

So I wouldn't be surprised if people or even circumstances sort of bolster her, but when it gets down to it, she really wants to move-on. After the SB and the poor reception of DJ, I'm sure she felt compelled to show her naysayers that she wasn't going to backdown, but the problem is being genuinely interested in the project except for a sort of retribution. Of course, as I said, she doesn't appear to be as sure of herself as someone like Madonna in regard to the statement she wants to make because she wants to sell records: charting=success for Janet. So in a way she appears to follow trends a bit more (particularly after The Velvet Rope), where as for Madonna just inately has a "vision" or the foresight which will be hugely successful in certain markets if not all and appears to be more concerned with making some sort of statement.

I've been there. I've been in situations where people are encouraging me to do something I really don't have the enthusiasm for--but I do it because I sort of get caught-up into their enthusiasm if not my own. Then it's their enthusism that carries me through. I can't criticize Janet too harshly for that. There are people who really love her work right now. So I can't say that Janet has failed completely even though there are certain "conflicts of interest" that I sense.

I just want the best for Janet. She seems to be a really nice person. No.. she might not have the clear vision of Madonna but she has had the concept at least in the past-- or at least has shared in creating the concept. I don't think that's the worst thing in the world. She's given me a lot of happiness over the years. She's helped me through some difficult times. I'm gonna support Janet even though she might not be somebody like Prince whom I've just always, always admired as a visionary--businesswise and artistically. (I've haven't liked everything that he's done either, but Prince is just Prince.)

And Janet is just Janet. With all of her "faults," I think Janet was born to be an entertainer--even though she has been reluctant to take on that task according to what I've read.
[Edited 9/15/06 4:51am]

newskin69 said:

I think because we expected a dance pop tune, not an overwrought sample gone crunk. It's Ok, but not up to her high standards. Same with "Call On Me".

I predict the album will do very well because this is the Janet the public wants (the fact that "Call On Me" was a modest hit and still appears to be hanging on says a lot about the audience, which wasn't with her the last time around).

Isel said:

Scarbough, and the people on his show, have an agenda. If the Dixie Chicks were such sinners for saying what they said, the album wouldn't have sold well. Fuck the general public. Artists should do what the want....the problem with Janet's new stuff...I don't think this is what she wants to do.

I Loved It

I finally saw the video. It's really good but yeah, waaay to similar to "All Nite" just with special effects. Couldn't they have found a different set. The switching from topless is just meant to piss off MTV...but they aren't showing the video anyway. Yeah, this helps sell the song for me (and the verison I heard of it was a little bit rough....I hope there are some dance remixes for this, too,,,,release a damn Maxi!).

Can´t wait to see it since y´all so excited about it.

Isel said:

Jacking the thread slightly here to say that I loved this, and the other Madonna observations you and others made. IMHO, here you perfectly articulated the "secret" to her continued success.

As for Janet, I haven't been a fan of her stuff for some years now, but I'll have to go check this out and see for myself what I think...

I liked this video...

what is there to diss....


ya'll...just go to youtube and watch it.

I swear there is no need for cable with youtube around.

They spent all the money on effects and none on LIGHTING!!


For real, though I like the song.

CinisterCee said:

yanno...I had to go through a couple of the videos on youtube to find one I could see. it is dark.