Graycap23 said:

It's true, but it says more of society than those artists.

NDRU said:

Not necessarily.....

I can see the hate, but dont blame Elvis himself. He was not a racist and infact, he even said he basically "stole" what people like chuck, ike etc.. were doing. So he did fully acknoledge this. He also never called himself the king of rock n roll. Chuck was wrong calling him a racist. John wayne on the other hand.....


Elvis was just a kid who loved black music and at least had a good enough voice to do it. U cant hate someone for liking a kind of music that does not "belong" to them.

If anything, his sucsess helped black people in the field gain at least some recognition
[Edited 9/12/06 17:40pm]

thesexofit said:

But Elvis grew up in the Jim Crow South, so who knows how he really felt about black folks, deep down?

Didn't he say blacks should buy his records and shine his shoes?

uPtoWnNY said:

Maybe he was deep down? But u (and iam not directing this at u personally)should not assume he was due to his where he lived as a kid. How could someone like elvis be racist when he loved black music? Seems unlikely.

I get the feeling Elvis wasa very simple bloke. I dont mean this in a bad way, i mean that he also seemed not the least bit agressive or outspoken. I dont get any negative vibes from him really? Maybe he did "steal" black music, but he was just doing something he loved.

Same with white rappers. Even someone like marky mark . He liked rap music, and decided to make records. He didn't "steal" anything. It was already there, but as the music he and elvis loved was fronted by a color not of their own, should people exclude themjust based on this reason?

I'm really not surprised at this ignorance. I wouldn't expect to find a lot of Elvis fans at a Prince board because of the average age of the people here and what they were brought up to believe and listen to.

Elvis is called the King Of Rock 'n' Roll because he was the most successfull to ever do it. Same as Michael Jackson is The King Of Pop. Nobody thinks he invented pop... he's just the most successfull to do it.

Elvis didn't steal jack shit. 'That's All Right Mama' was the first record of it's kind. It's basically the first rockabilly record. Elvis had his own sound and his own way of doing things. Of course I wouldn't expect people here to realise all this. You've probably heard, what... 10 Elvis songs in your life at the max?

And I find it funny that black music legends who were actually THERE when Elvis was doing his thing from 1954-1977 and actually dug Elvis and realised what he was are now called uncle Toms by people who don't know the first thing about Elvis. Jackie Wilson was exagerating with what he said of course, but it just goes to show how strongly he felt about Elvis and the people who say he stole something. Jackie Wilson used to have a part of his stage show where he would imitate Elvis. One of his biggest hits is a well known Elvis imitation called "Reet Petite".

ThreadBare said:

Tell it Threadbare! Pat Boone sounded ridiculous singing Little Richards "Tutti Frutti" Vanilla Ice is probably the biggest joke ever in the hip hop world (Word To Your Mother ) And Justin? he's a poor mans Michael Jackson. I'll give Elvis some credit. He could sing and he was very energetic on stage (In his younger years) But he ripped his act off from what was going on in the backwoods juke joints etc. Even the late great Ray Charles said that what Elvis did wasn't new, Black folks were shaking their fannies long before Elvis did it on national TV. The only Elvis song I like is "Blue Suede Shoes" Other then that? Nothing.

WildStyle said:

Ignorance?? On the Org?? NoWAY!!!!!

ThePunisher said:

Bo Diddley said the same thing in an interview - Elvis could sing and entertain, but he didn't do anything new. But you know how it is in America....

WildStyle said:

No, its the complete opposite of ignorance. When one refuses to let the media and the press shove this IDEA of a "Rock N' Roll King" down his/her throat becoz he/she know better,,,,that doesn't mean ignorance at all. I don't what do they call it in Pluto, but over here on earth, its INTELLIGENCE.



By the critics,,,who doesn't know a DUST about musicianship. We're talking about the same critics(from that same period) who called Charlie Parker's music as a "communist music",,,whateva the hell that means.



Call it a good luck.



Who you kidding? They were ALL exagerating. Like I said, its their personal choice to dig Elvis(just like everybody does) but they can take that babble-mouthed bullshit about him influincing ALL black entertainers and musicians back to the plantation.

And Reet Petite is a nod to Louis Jordan thats a tribute to him.

It's clear to me that I will not get anywhere with people who have such pure blind hatred for a man they know very little about. Especially as an artist and entertainer. For the record, I don' call anyone the king of r'n'r. When Elvis was singing rock 'n' roll there were others who were putting in great work in that genre as well. Everyone had there own contribution to evolution of r'n'r. The differnece is Elvis was more than just a R'n'R singer. Elvis was probably the most versatile popular artist of the 20th century. I call Elvis The King because he was the fucking man! Get back to me when you get some real knowledge on Elvis as an artist and as an entertainer.

With that I'm gone. Long live THE KING!

Harlepolis said:

Wait... I missed this point. The title comes from Louis Jordan. The way he sings the song and the phrasing is an ode to Elvis' original style.

WildStyle said:

Mmhmm,,,just like you missed basically the essence of everything I said earlier



Thats a WRAP then

WildStyle said:

If you say so
[Edited 9/13/06 1:33am]

uPtoWnNY said:[quote]

thesexofit said:

But Elvis grew up in the Jim Crow South, so who knows how he really felt about black folks, deep down?

Didn't he say blacks should buy his records and shine his shoes?[/quote]


No, he never said that:

http://www.snopes.com/mus...esley1.asp


And from this article, there's a section on Chuck D's recent visit to Gracelands on ...

Chuck D, a founding father of hip-hop and pop musicologist, said that accepting Elvis, and by extension other white crossover artists, might be easier for black Americans now that black artists are getting more credit and exposure.

Several years ago, the Fox TV network sent him to Graceland to do a black-perspective news story about Elvis. The assignment opened his eyes.

"Elvis had to come through the streets of Memphis and turn out black crowds before he became famous," Chuck D said. "It wasn't like he cheated to get there. He was a bad-ass white boy. Just like Eminem is doing today. The thing about today is that Eminem has more respect for black artists and black people and culture today than a lot of black artists themselves. He has a better knowledge where it comes from. Elvis had a great respect for black folk at a time when black folks were considered niggers, and who gave a damn about nigger music?"


http://www.kki.pl/elvisal...gust19.htm

And, for what it's worth, Albert Goldman demolished Elvis as a squirrel eating, corset wearing, obese, incontinent, dumb, drug addicted hillbilly with an Oedipal complex, but he never called him a racist.

Peter Guralnick also completely dispelled the myth in both of his scholarly biographies.
[Edited 9/13/06 2:52am]

thesexofit said:

Eric Clapton made racist remarks on stage in Birmingham (England, not Alabama)in 1976, when told his stunned audience that England was becoming "a black colony" and voiced his support for Enoch Powell, a racist politician who had made his infamous "rivers of blood" speech in the same city in 1968. He has neither apologused nor withdrawn his comments. Clapton's speech led to the foundation of the Rock Against Racism movement in England.

Shapeshifter said:[quote]

uPtoWnNY said:

Thank you very much for posting this. I'd also add that there are numerous photos of him in the covivial company of people like B.B. King, Little Richard and James Brown. That doesn't necessarily prove anything, but they and many other black friends of his attest that he was just that, a great friend. Seems unlikely that a racist could have black friends or be visibly enjoying himself hanging out with the likes of B.B. King.

interesting thread!

ahrg... the annoying look... the irritating voice... the silly mannerism

the conservatism.. las vegas... the fbi, whatever...

the overall schlockism of it all...

elvis, not so great... i've decided

jacktheimprovident said:

James Brown requested and got time alone with Elvis's body when he was lying in state in Graceland. James was, by all accounts, very cut up by Elvis's death because they had been very close friends. And this was the man who'd cut one of the most potent black power anthems ever.

And then there are the not insignificant facts that one of Elvis's inner circle, Jerry Schilling married Myrna Smith, one of The Sweet Inspirations, and that Elvis also donated money to the NAACP and several Civil Rights organisations.
[Edited 9/13/06 6:41am]

Elvis Presley? Great singer, electrifying performer, BUT, the King of Rock and Roll? NO WAY! Chuck Berry was and is the ONLY king rock and roll ever had. I have always though Elvis got WAY too much credit from the press. Reminds of the 'Clapton is God' syndrome.

nikkhendrix said:

You're forgetting Little Richard mate, although I'd take Chuck over him any day.

Eric Clapton - boring, boring, boring. Made racist comments too (scroll up) and never apologised for them. Britain was becoming a "black colony" he said (when there was heavy immigration from both the West Indies, Pakistan and India), but he didn't mind covering Bob Marley's I Shot the Sheriff and getting a gloobal No 1 with it.

Elvis is one of the greatest telents in popular music. He had an amazing voice and was a billiant live peformer.

Music wise, I think he has a patchy collection of songs. Some of his song are among the greatest of all times, yet most of his songs were eaither dull or tacky.

I feel that a lot of people see Elvis as the greatest because he was the first hughly successful pop star of the new Rock'N'Roll era of the 1950's. There is no deny that Elvis was the most influncial star of artist in the early years of popular music. The Beatles, Rolling Stones, Bob Dylan etc where all in some way influnced by Elvis, and I guess because Elvis was the "First" he kind of set a template that's pop stars in the 2000's. But being the first doesn't mean being the greatest or most influencial.

Elvis wasn't a songwriter, many of his most famous songs were cover versions. To me Michael Jackson, David Bowie and Prince are the 3 ultimate talents of all time in music. The have brilliant voices and are amazing live artists, but also write there own songs. Many artists from Elvis to Justin Timberlake (a co-writer) don't have that wide range of talents, so Elvis to me isn't even among my top 10 artist dispite the fact I think he is an Icon and deserves a lot of respect.

NDRU said:

nope

Isolar said:[quote]Elvis is one of the greatest telents in popular music. He had an amazing voice and was a billiant live peformer.

quote]


Don't know if I agree with this. I dug Elvis but there are 100's of people who would run rings around Elvis. TTD is a good example.

Shapeshifter said:

It's always astounded me that Clapton has come under so little flack for this. I heard him making a very disingenuous defence of those comments as recently as 3 years ago.

As for Elvis, anyone that knows anything knows Chuck Berry is ten times the artist Elvis ever was. An incredible songwriter with a guitar style that virtually every band of the next 20 years imitated. What's less recognised is that even in Elvis's strongest area; his onstage charisma, Chuck Berry beats him there too. Check out his 1958 performance of You Can't Catch Me in the film of that year with Alan Freed (sorry, but I can't remember the goddamn title. It had The Moonglows and Frankie Lymon in it too, but Chuck's performance stole the show)

Not a fan, altho I just happen to know a song or two. What irks me almost as much if not more than the "King of Rock 'n Roll" title is the yearly pouring out of fandom when the anniversary of his birthday and death comes around. I don't understand the necessity to devote so much air time on entertainment tv shows to reviewing his life, and showing fans get all overly emotional. This does not happen for any other entertainer at that level, and I don't get it. Sure when a fave of mine dies I'll be sad, but I just don't see myself making special treks every year to pay respects. He's been dead about as long as I've been alive.

Shapeshifter said:

Between Little Richard and Chuck Berry is a very tough decision for me but I think I'd have to go with the Rich. Chuck Berry did more than anyone to define guitar driven rock n roll, but people forget that rock n roll wasn't always a guitar driven genre and by the broadest definition "Rock N Roll" encompasses Soul/R&B and the related styles (R&B and R&R were originally interchangeable). Chuck Berry's style was fantastic and hugely influential, but it was also much easier to immitate and improve upon vis a vis the Beatles, The Stones, the Animals etc who immitated and built upon Chuck and Bo Diddley. I don't think anyone quite captured Little Richard's style. Even in light of punk rock, thrash metal and other high speed-driven developments in rock n roll, I don't think anyone's quite captured the intense, frenetic and exuberant feel of Little Richard. His voice is insanely powerful, his band incredibly tight, his piano playing absolutely the paragon of boogie/rock key work and according to James Brown, he and his Upsetters were the first to infuse the funk into the rock n roll rhythm.

He died before I was born and I never bought any of his music. I love that song 'A little Less Conversation.' I did see a concert of his on PBS and it wasn't that bad. I can see why peeps dig him so much. He was controversial for the 60's and had better music than the Fucking Beetles. So in a nutshell...

Elvis=GREAT
Beetles=Overrated

jacktheimprovident said:

I always found Little Richard way too one dimensional for my taste. I haven't heard anything from him with the wit and subtlety of Downbound Train or Havana Moon. Also, others may have done more with Chuck's style musically, but as a songwriter no one ever got near his unique way with a lyric.