My dad raised me listening to Willie Colon and Hector Lavoe, Ray Barreto, Chivirico, Cheo Feliciano, Bobby Valentin, Celia, La Lupe and all the greats. When I go out to dance salsa, cha cha cha, or guaguanco that old school salsa dura is what gets me moving. I accepted merengue and bachata as their popularity increased, but what is up with this damn reggaeton?? I can't stand this garbage or the way folks act when it comes on in a club. It's bad enough that traditional Latin music has become so watered down and overproduced that the heart and soul are almost nonexistent today. But this reggaeton mess is too much for me.

How do you feel about the current state of Latin music, especially modern salsa and reggaeton?

as a hispanic person i must say the following:

i am ashamed at the state hispanic music is in.

reggeaton is basically a form of trash that degrates women, and dangerously enough makes kids waste money on "muscians" who rap over the same beat over and over again.


as for reggeaton artist i feel they are dangerous to the latino community as i see them to negative influence and stereotypical thoughts about the hispanic cummunity.
to be honest i don't think there is a positive latino influence in the music media currently.

Daddy Yankee And J.Lo Are Horrible talentless media leaches who decay the taste of youth.



i apologize for my grammar and my slight drama,i just love pop music alot.
[Edited 9/1/06 23:23pm]

weepingwall said:

I don't listen to reggaeton that much but I do check in from time to time because it's interesting to watch any art form morph/grow...
What do you think of Don Omar? They say he's a spiritual guy...tries to live right, and all.

anon said:

he's such a spiritual guy that he got arrested with possesion of cocaine and marijuana also got charge with trying to bring drugs to the us..well if you think spiritual means being a hypocrital talentless cockroach of a man well yeah i think he's very spiritual..i abhor reggaeton is all forms..burn down the disco...

say what's on your mind weepingwall!

seriously though, I loathe reggaeton too. the only latin I listen to (besides the artists bellanoche pointed out) is La India, Tito Nieves & Marc Anthony (well, before J.Lo).

weepingwall said:

oh. Guess I missed that.

Really, I don't follow reggaeton too closely but I have friends that are a part of that scene, that's why I said he tries to live right. I have heard of his personal struggles (not drugs) and have also heard many good things about him...as a person.

I guess I admire anyone's quest for spirituality, whether they mess up or not. Hopefully he'll get help for that.

weepingwall said:

Thank you for letting me know that I am not solo in my displeasure. I am not Latina, but just as is true with R&B/Pop, I am ashamed and embarrassed by the images and sounds that currently proliferate in Latin music. The garbage that masquerades as talent is a detriment to music and in many instances culture.

I listen to Hector Lavoe deliver a song and I am like wow, WTF happened? I tried to get into Marc Anthony, but I can't. He is another in a long line of whining Latino male vocalists backed by stale computerized tracks. La India does do her part to keep the real music alive. That woman can actually sing. Tito Nieves has strong vocals as well. However, all in all, modern Latin music is just dead to me. I will take the big, old school conjuntos anyday.

I would have never thought that music so rich, organic and full of life would deteriorate into this nonsense out here today.

I must totally agree, Reggaeton has totally destroyed the image of Latin Music, I know people will say "yeah but its so popular and sells well" well so does Crack that doesnt make it good. Also does anyone release that every Reggaeton song is based off the same beat? just listen to about 15 in a row, its worse than Pharrell's work.

I'm not defending reggaeton because I'm not that big a fan but what do you think hip-hop would have been like if it were beginning now?...if it had today's technology at it's disposal?

There would be a lot more really bad stuff to sort thru to find the few gems. This is the case with reggaeton. Very much of it is pretty bad, but you can't deny that it's the voice of a community. It's there and it will be there and out of what's going on now, will rise a few stars.

Though I can only handle a track or two at a time, I enjoy checking in on the process.

Unfortunately, reggaeton became popular because the salsa scene was not offering anything new to this generation. reggaeton has been around from the early 80s in Panama and Colombia. Salsa became so water down with lyrics so sappy that no wonder that this generation (influenced by hip hop of course) could not dig it. So, Puerto Ricans made the beat a bit more hip hop and less reggae (like the panama and colombian variation) and boom, it took off. Records label saw that and ran with it and figured, why pay a band that has between 10 to 12 members, when i can pay a fool and a two dancers less money? please, that was a no brainer. Salsa bands in Puerto rico are struggling because promoters are not paying them. But, the salsa scene is not dead, depends where u look. South America, especially Peru, Venezuela and Colombia have embraced the salsa dura by storm. El gran combo can pack a 10,000 people stadium in Peru, while they can even filla high school auditorium in Puerto Rico. Sad but true.
Also, check out Cuba's salsa scene, a bit harder and groovier than here in The USA (ironic they use FUNK bass lines for their salsa)
Hopefull, Reggaeton will die. When? not sure, cause now u have folks like Andy Montanez, Gilberto santa rosa, jumping on the reggaeton bandwagon.

chestro18 said:

Why is it that people always blame the music or want the music to go away? Isn't that like saying that you want a mindset or a demographic to go away? Music doesn't just happen and music isn't the enemy. It's the reflection of what's out there.

Even if you don't like something, instead of seeing it as the problem, why not see it as a voice that can give insight? That's what it is.

So we must accept whats been given to us as music? That mindset that u speak us will keep us in a rote. We all listen to music for different reasons, some of us like to be challenge and some of us go with the flow thats on radio and either one is cool.
I prefer a bit more variety on my plate and if that means throwing darts at reggaeton till it goes away, then ill do that. In the meantime since is not something I sweat, ill be listening to my funk, rock and latin (los van van, ruben blades, herman olivera, cano, etc)

As George said, "think, it aint ilegal yet!"

chestro18 said:

I think you miss the point.
No you don't have to accept anything. But the reality is that it's there whether you acknowledge it or not. Again, you can throw darts, but it's not at the music, you'll be throwing them at the community behind that music.

This is nothing different than what has happened with each new generation of music. There's always someone that wants to silence it as if in doing so, they can make a culture/mindset/people go away. That never works.

I think u r missing my point, I clearly stated in my first post, that the reggaeton grew out of a generation who did not identify with what was before them(salsa, etc) and i also made it clear that the record labels are the ones pushing this stuff. There are good reggaeton records, just like with any genre but when u put them as a collective u r getting a stale, one beat, same lyrics degrading women, violence, etc and then the question u should ask, are we really like this (we r speaking of latinos in this case-like my self) or are we being fed this crap just like we r only fed negative hip hop?
And yes, I hear what u r saying, it is here, lets deal with it but is dealing with it means we should just accept it for what it is or should we....?

chestro18 said:

The labels may have a part in this now, but when it was all street level and indie, the music, as well as the videos, were even more crude. There was a push away from the "girly" videos because many saw it as low class. There was a period where the better videos wouldn't feature that aspect. That's why this one was so popular. Many of the top videos didn't have girls in them, at all.

I'm sure, that the sex-sells formula is a part of the appeal and because of this, execs may have a part in the reversal of trend. I agree with you, it's unfortunate but as with anything, when people stop buying, it will change.

Anyway, if you're set on throwing darts, just make sure they're smart darts. Put something out there that's better/positive or help someone to do it...the market it still open.

I've never been into Latin music but I have noticed something from eating out at various restaurants and hearing the music playing in the restaurants. The whole time I'm eating, I feel like I'm in hip hop hell. I've always been into funk and rock but even if I wanted to venture out and explore other things, they are all becoming over-run by shit hop. It's rediculous. There's no variety of anything anymore. It's like they are trying to force you to listen to it.

vainandy said:

It's funny that you stated this. I watched Heavy, that VH-1 documentary on the history of Metal last night and one thing that I noted was that whenever they would show the Billboard charts there was so much variety on the charts in the 70s and 80s. Now everything sounds alike and all the artists look alike in one way or another. This cookie-cutter ideology seems to have infected all genres of music.

chestro18 said:

That's a damn shame!




Again, a damn shame!!

http://www.trama.com.br/p.../index.jsp

(imo) one of the current interesting labels from Brasil .
Founded by one of the sons of the late and legendary Elis Regina .

There are folks doing some great music in Salsa (son, guaguanco, boleros, even regaeton) but they get no play what so ever. They keep feeding us this one beat songs and we keep buying them, so not sure when thats going to change. And this is across genre of music.

bellanoche said:

1. I hate to stereotype, but reggaeton is to the latin community what crunk is to the black community: one of the worst genres ever invented!!! Almost ever damn song coming out of these genres sound like the SAME song!!! WTF has happen to the international music industry that allow this C.R.A.P. to exist?!?

2. As for latin music in general, they need to drop reggaeton altogether and focus on bring back latin freestyle! Stevie B. TKA, Collage, and Lil'Suzy can't do THIS all by themselves. The industry needs to wake the hell up and help bring the real dance music from the underground back to the mainstream radar.
[Edited 9/4/06 1:21am]

The only Latin music I listen to now is Latin alternative/rock en Español. Artists like Aterciopelados, Icaro Azul, Café Tacuba, Juana Molina, etc. don't play into any of those Latin stereotypes at all.

It's funny because Jamaican dance hall music kind of does the same. Some artists will use the same beat, but sing a different song differently. For example the beat from Sean Paul's Like Glue can be heard on TKO's Just Got Paid, another song(I forgot the artist's name) "She Drive Me Crazy" and so forth, and what DJ's do is mix it all together, same beat with different flavor, however when its done like that is sounds really good because each song is very different from the other with the same beat AND it changes each year.

Whatever beat is popular at the time is used.

I say this because with Reggaeton, perhaps I'm not listening to it properly, but the beat has not changed in like 2 years! It has been the same beat, over and over and over again. How long can this beat last????
[Edited 9/4/06 16:39pm]

wonder505 said:

I ask the same question with trance, techno, and even Chicago house.

TonyVanDam said:

I can't speak for trance or techno, but the same cannot be said for house music. I am a huge house music fan and I am a lifetime Chicagoan. There is some great, creative house music being made. Thankfully, some great artists like Frankie Knuckles, David Morales, Barbara Tucker, Kenny Bobien, Juliette Roberts, Kathy Brown, Rochelle Fleming and so many more are keeping the music alive and not recycling the same old stuff. If it wasn't for house music, I would probably never go out...that is until Prince comes to town!

bellanoche said:

Well, there was a time that we had hip-house (remember that?) I wish that genre would have last a lot longer.

Beside Chicago & NYC, there was also french house (Daft Punk were the last successful artists within that genre). Other than that, will house ever have mainstream success again?

I can't stand reggaeton.It's the same beat on every song! That music gets tedious really fast I'd rather listen to genuine salsa instead of the commercial,watered-down crap.

Rogue588 said:

I'm also a Marc Anthony fan.I wonder why he stopped making pop music? I really liked his 2002 album 'Mended'.

TonyVanDam said:

I really don't think that genuine house music was ever mainstream. It's always been underground by virtue of the audience that it attracts. The fanbase in the USA especially for the type of house music that I listen to is largely gay and people of color. When I go to a Frankie Knuckles party I am usually in the minority because I am straight. However, I'm black so I still fit the people of color demo. Last year in Chicago at Summerdance - the free outdoor dance series - there were capacity crowds of more than 5,000 each week for the house music nights, but again the crowd was mostly gay, "minority" and "alternative. So, there is not a lot of promotion outside of the house fanbase for house artists, deejays or events. They know their target demo and they know that it isn't mainstream. I'm just happy that the music is still alive, because it is so positive, soulful and free. Unlike the mess that's on my tv/radio 24/7.

sextonseven said:

Do you like Los Lonely Boys? I dig their style of Latin rock and their new CD 'Sacred' is excellent.They remind me of classic Santana.