If Michael were anyone else would his fans really be overlooking this sort of track record?

I'm not singling out the hanging out with kids thing and Michael is not the only guy who's been psychologically or physically abused, had to work as a child or had low self-esteem.

Many sensitive abandoned or abused adults are wary of other adults but they don't hang out with kids either but that's beside the point.

I just think if this was 50 Y.O. Michael Smith who worked at 'the office' I don't think folks would be excusing all of his behavior and preferred friendships on him being different. The women would think he was gay or downlow and the guys would think he was odd. Not like you can't be different and gay at the same time.

whatsgoingon said:

Of course I'm focusing on his ambiguous sexuality. Isn't that what you do when you're making the case for someone being gay? The only unbalanced thing is your response. I listed many separate different points that all built up a picture of a closet homosexual. You've ignored almost all of them except for one. The fact that his list of friends (Liberace, Liza Minelli, Liz Taylor, Diana Ross, etc.)reads like a gay man's wet dream is perfectly valid information to present as part of an overall case. The fact that these women are all surrounded by gay men, their best friends are gay, and they're actively involved in the gay community is one hell of a coincidence. btw, he described Diana Ross in 78 as someone to whom he could tell "all my deepest, darkest secrets". He wrote a song for her expressing desire for a beautiful muscle man. When she performed it on stage she introduced it saying "I'm not sure if it's meant to be my fantasy or his".
Combine all that with the fact that he's never had a real girlfriend, both his marriages were shams, none of his children were conceived naturally, and he's slept with a succession of good looking olive skinned boys and it makes a pretty strong case to anyone with any objectivity. That's not to even mention his gay manner and appearance.
If you're asking me to believe that all these separate indicators of gayness are just coincidence then I'm sorry, but that's an insult to my intelligence. What comes across pretty clearly to me is that many of you are so repelled by the idea that the man who's music you grew up on could have been gay all along that you'll come up with the most nonsensical rationalisations in order to ignore the obvious; the biggest example being the idea that he's guity of paedophilia but only for the control it gives him. In that case why not abuse little girls? Like I said before, those who deny he's gay are the ones who have the biggest questions to answer, so before attacking me in future, perhaps you'd like to come off the fence and deal with some of these points. You can make a start with the most obvious one. Why has he shared his bed over and over again with numerous good looking,olive skinned boys?

And if he is gay, even if he is a closeted homosexual surely by now there must be several men that he has got it on with.?

whoknows said:

You might as well come out and say he is a Pedophil(sp), but instead you say he is a closetted homosexual, that why I believe you analogy is flawed. Your saying he surounds himself with specific people and then your going on about him bedding little boys, that to me makes him more likely to be a Pedo than a repress homosexuality. As someone says Pedophilia has nothing to do with homosexuality.

And if he is gay, even if he is a closeted homosexual surely by now there must be several men that he has got it on with.?

Btw Emmanuel Lewis and Maculay Culkin don't look Olive skin to me.
[Edited 9/12/06 8:28am]

BTW, I do consider his circumstances when looking at the scope of his life but like everything else at some point enough is enough. You really have to question choices that have practically ended his career, ruined his reputation and landed him in jail.

People have all sorts of wounds that show themselves in the form of addictions, obsessions and compulsions. When any of these things get out of hand they can be detrimental. That's why there's therapy and counseling. People talk about Whitney like a dog on here. Does anyone consider her childhood, her unhealed wounds? No she's just a cracked out has been. Whitney is or was in denial and the worstthing about denial is that the person can't even see that their lives are out of balance and they need help. At some point Robert Downey admitted that he was out of control and couldn't stop. Before that, he was no different than Whitney.

I agree with what some are saying that it's time Michael take responsibility for his actions. Mistakes as well as the triumphs. Abuse can break you down but it can also make you stronger and more connected to the real world around you.

I don't know what the photo of Prince is to imply but the thing about Prince is he's never appeared to be afraid of sex or his sexuality, IMO. He's not afraid to be with or around grown sexual women or grown sexual men. Whatever his situation, he's grown and sexy. :

whatsgoingon said:

I noticed you completely dodged the points again. btw, the vast majority of the boys have been olive skinned. Anyone who denies that is not obeying the evidence of their own eyes. Name one black boy he has spent the night with in the last 20 years. I'm unaware of any.

All this talk about MJ fans being over defensive.

Yet when it comes to Prince...

whoknows said:

No, you are dodging the point. I personally believe you think Michael is a Pedophil, but for some reason or another your scared to say that out, probably because you will offend certain people. So instead you say he is a "repress Homosexual", becaus he hangs around Elizabeth Taylor, Diana Ross and Liberace, as if to say these are the only people he has ever had a friendship with.

Even as far back as the mid to late '70s (when he was still pretty much a kid himself) he said that he preferred the company of youngsters because they didn't want anything from him but friendship. Most of the adults in Michael's life have taken advantage of him in one way or another, including his own family for fuck's sake. He's wary of adults to this day. I wonder why.

whatsgoingon said:

Really? This point only emerged in your last post. Before then you said your reason for disagreeing with me was that I was "focusing on his amiguous sexuality rather than his overall life". Now you say you're reason for disagreeing is because I believe he's a paedophile. Your reason for disagreeing seems to change every two minutes. Now you think you can deflect attention away from the subject of his possible gayness by making this a discussion about whether or not I believe he's a paedophile. Sorry. Won't work. This is about whether or not he's gay. I've explained why I think he is. You haven't made any real efforts to counter the overall points. Unless you're prepared to try, I suggest we agree to disagree.

whoknows said:

Randy Taraborrelli's first MJ book (The Magic & The Madness) was about as serious a biography you could get....It was a strong effort that didn't trail to deep in bullshit...

murph said:

Just what I was about to post.

shockadelicaa said:

Something tells me you hadn't read further down the page when you posted this

JackieBlue said:

I think that the fact that Michael has never been really that open about sex in his music and his life in general might have to do something with him regarding that as sick, cause don´t forget what he´s been exposed to as a child in all those clubs that he performed in and he said many times that it was sick to him. He has always kept this part of his life private. That´s what created the mysterious aura that left people guessing.(Remember that nobody knew of his marriage to Lisa Marie until several weeks later. If it was such a stunt, why all the privacy? Plus Lisa does not look like someone doing things for publicity or whatever, but that´s another topic.) And if looks were to decide one´s homosexuality than most of men in showbusiness would have to be homosexual - but now we´ve discovered a new name for this - metrosexuality. Anyways, Mike has worn make-up, but I think we should notice that the make-up came with the Bad era = vitiligo spreading. But when it comes to clothes he always wore military stuff, which I would say is a very "male" clothing. Prince wore more of "gay clothes" than Mike.