goat2004 said:

So let me get this right: You're defining R&B and rap collaborations (intrinsically black-based popular music forms) on the basis on POP music (mostly white-based popular music forms) awareness? Doesn't that seem somewhat condescending? Not only that, it's contradictory in light of Chaka Khan's "I Feel for You."

Jody Watley's "Friends" wasn't something groundbreaking -- in fact, it followed the same formula of the songs I named. That's contradictory logic.

goat2004 said:

Grandmaster Melle Mel's rap on "I Feel for You" is the most recognizable refrain from the song. To this day, Chaka Khan says that she is accosted by fans who rap that part to her.

Please give me some guidance on your rationalization here. I'm not understanding how you can overlook "I Feel for You" and praise another and arguably lesser song that five years later copied the same formula.
[Edited 9/4/06 12:29pm]

Najee said:

Hey Najee, from reading your comments, we are on the same page...its not that serious, i agree with all your points... U r looking into my language a bit too much - it is what it is...Chaka and Melle was the orginal...the rap was memorable, but Melle Mel didn't receive a lot of pub over it.

Thanks 4 bringing up Losey's Rap...almost forgot that one...probably because it wasnt that good. As far as commercially successful - we r on the same page.

goat2004 said:

Again, on what are you basing this comment? Grandmaster Melle Mel's rap on "I Feel for You" -- where he is repeatedly saying Chaka Khan's name -- is the most memorable part of a great song, and he received a ton of publicity for his appearance on the track. It was arguably the most high-profile appearance he ever made on a song, even more than his work on "The Message."

goat2004 said:

Rick James' "Loosey's Rap" is no worse than Jody Watley's "Friends," which almost inexplicably is being hailed by you as some sort of classic.
[Edited 9/4/06 12:53pm]

Najee said:

3

Dude, Friends was a much bigger hit than Lossey's rap! You have your opinion, i respect yours, so please respect mine also....I dont personally remember Melle Mel reciving a lot of praise 4 the song, if u say he did, ok, fine - thats just how i saw it..i didnt start this topic to get into debating, lets keep it fun or keep it moving.....

goat2004 said:

Rick James' "Loosey's Rap" was a No. 1 R&B song; Jody Watley's "Friends" was not.

Oh, I forgot -- you're asking for rap/soul collaborations and defining them not by their performance on those charts but how another audience (namely, mostly white, pop-music audiences) acknowledges them. In other words, "Friends" is a much bigger hit than "Loosey's Rap" because it charted on the pop charts. Nothing like going outside the genre to define the genre -- save when you somehow overlook Chaka Khan's "I Feel for You."

goat2004 said:

You're obviously aren't basing it on facts, though. You summarily removed songs prior to 1989/early 1990 and likely because your frame of reference starts around that time. It's not an opinion that Chaka Khan's "I Feel for You" came out five years before Jody Watley's "Friends" and there were quite a few songs that were chart-toppers using a rap and soul combination before "Friends."

If you want an thread based on an opinion, you're right. But that's not the case here.
[Edited 9/4/06 13:05pm]

Fatback & King Tim III - 1979


"King Tim III" , appearing on the B-side of the single below ...





... and on the 1979 album .











Whodini & Tashan - Yours For A Night - 1983
( From Whodini's debut-album -see above- )








Jam & Lewis working with Captain Rapp and featuring a female vocalist .








In the route of Teena Marie's "Square Biz" , GC's nutty rap from 1983


[Edited 9/4/06 13:43pm]

Najee said:

then the threadtitle should be adapted

100MPH said:

GOAT stated it in his initial post that he was looking for the first commercially viable rap/soul artists collaboration. He likely couldn't state that specifically in the title because of length.

goat2004 said:

ThePunisher said:

It wasn't rap, it was spoken words.

Najee said:

Well sorry 4 the confusion i've caused but apart from that a length like "what was the first commercially succesfull Rap/R&B collabo ?" is no problem to place in the forum-overview .
.
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[Edited 9/4/06 14:14pm]

TonyVanDam said:

Yeah, the brothers and sisters were really playing that one in the clubs and on the radio stations!

On a serious note, I have no idea why some otherwise uninformed non-followers of soul and rap actually bring up this song. It's an insult to both genres, considering this song had no presence in either.
[Edited 9/4/06 14:31pm]

Najee said:

You'll be surprise how many black folks that were Blondie fans back in 70's!

TonyVanDam said:

There was a Blondie-kinda character ( left from Fab5Freddie ) in this docu-movie .

TonyVanDam said:

Surprise me, considering I grew up in the '70s. Blondie had no songs that had any inroads in soul music. All their hit songs in the United States charted only on the popular music charts.

Blondie may have had a few black fans, but that's different from saying they were played on black music formats.
[Edited 9/4/06 14:59pm]

Najee said:

I don't know about America in general, but Rapture got some air time on black radio in New Orleans back in 80-81.

TonyVanDam said:

That's misrepresenting what you said earlier, though. "Rapture" may have played on one soul music station, but that's totally different from saying this group has this large black following -- which in turns move into songs charting nationally on playlists and having the sales in that same market.

You beat me to it. Singers didn't need rappers back then because they could do it themselves (and pretty well I might add). "Square Biz" is a perfect example of singing and rapping. Another one is Stacy Lattisaw's "Feel My Love Tonight" that same year.

vainandy said:

Of course, rap music at that time was considered little more than a party-chant type of response so Teena Marie could get away with it on "Square Biz." Once songs like Grandmaster Flash & The Furious Five changed the genre into a more original art form, you rarely heard soul singers trying the call-and-response techniques.

Things were different back then. Everything wasn't done on a national level back then. There wasn't huge corporations that dominated what was played on radio stations from coast to coast. Local DJs and program directors had a bigger say on what was played in their area. Like Tony in New Orleans, I was his neighbor in Mississippi and Blondie's "Rapture" and "Heart Of Glass" was played on R&B stations here also.

And that's the way it should have stayed....fun and for the dance floor (what music should be in the first place).

vainandy said:

It still doesn't answer the comment about Blondie having no relevance in soul music on a national or regional level. I've lived in several places across the country (including North Carolina, South Carolina and Atlanta) and none of their songs were played on our soul music stations. Blondie never had inroads in with soul music overall and their songs never charted in the soul music playlists.

You're taking a local situation and projecting it to think it was national.
[Edited 9/4/06 16:15pm]

vainandy said:

Life is about change, and the music styles and the genre itself changed.

It's one thing to change for the better but to change for the worse is another story. You're right, the genre definately changed....worse than I could have ever imagined.

Najee said:

If Blondie took the same songs (that crossover to black/urban radio markets) and perform them on Solid Gold (with a racial mix audience, including blacks), does that count as national, IYO?

vainandy said:

The industry change when they focus only on one style of rap that was making the most money from teens (gangsta, by 1993-94) and the hell with all of the other styles (politcal, party, miami bass, etc.).

Exactly. And I noticed that they focused on the type that the white teens latched onto.

vainandy said:

Beside heavy metal, gangsta rap is the only genre that white teens had to shock to living hell out of their parents. I remember the outrage of white and some middie-class black parents alike when they heard about this rap group that call themselves, Niggaz With Attitudes (NWA)!!!