I had an argument with a friend the other day about this topic - and basically I mean, what was the first successful or commercialy viable rap/r&b collabo?

The two tracks that cum 2 mind are Joyce Finderella and Doug E Fresh - Mr Dj (1989) and Jody Watley and Rahkim - Friends (1989) - they were definently the first two females. The same year, (what was it about 1989?) Janet Jackson hooked up with Heavy D on the remix to Alright With Me.

I need the orgers help - this is significant because in today's pop music outlet - every hit song has some rapper on it. So I just wanted to know where it all started or what people remember as being the first?



Friends video = http://www.youtube.com/wa...9bPudalIfg

well, upon doing some research and reflection back to 1988, it was Al B Sure and Slick Rick who had the first r&b/rap collabo with If Im Not Your Lover.




I bet there was some collabo back in the early 80's - the kurtis Blow/Grand Master Flash era.

What's wierd is that the first rock/rap collabo occured in 1986 with Run DMC and Areosmith with Walk This Way. So, I'm thinking...damn, there was a rap/rock collab before a rap/r&b collab? It could'nt be, could it?

Ok, wait-a-minute, it was Chaka Kahn and Melle Mel right?

I feel For You - 1984. Ok, so this was the first?

So "Thriller" doesn't count?

AlexdeParis said:

That is just awful

I thought that I heard Jimmy Spicer/Count Coolout rapped a verse in this disco funk type of song. The artists on that song were r&b overall. I am sure that song came out before Chaka Kahn's I feel for you.

i forgot the name of song too and who were the artists too but the lyrics goes something like "must be the music"
[Edited 9/4/06 8:53am]

I heard people saying it was Mariah Carey's "FANTASY" featuring O.D.B.
Is that a lie?

theodore said:

C'mon, now. Mariah Carey's "Fantasy" came out in the mid-1990s -- a decade after songs like "I Feel for You" and "Save Your Love (for No. 1)."
[Edited 9/4/06 9:11am]

Chaka Khan & Melle Melle were probably the first well known singer and rapper to collaborate on a top ten hit on the r&b and pop charts.

PrettyMan72 said:

I agree. I was in high school during that period and I remember the buzz that a singer and a rapper made a song together. I digged through some books charting Billboard singles in the early 1980s just now and did not see another song prior to Chaka Khan's "I Feel for You" meeting GOAT's criteria.

One could argue that "Rapper's Delight" was the first. Chic might as well have been on stage with the Sugar Hill Gang.

Najee said:

I thought it was the Sugar Hill Gang's "Rappers Delight" which they threw down over Chic's "Good Times" instrumental.

Then there was New Edition who sang R&B and did some tired ass rappin' in almost every song they did on their albums.

Both the examples I mentioned came out before Chaka and Melle Melle.

dseann said:

He was talking about collaborations, i.e. two (or more) artists working together. Neither of your examples fit his criteria.

Najee said:

Does Melle Mel ever get a credit on that "I Feel For You"? I've never seen one...

I'm not sure what anybody would consider the first, but I would say that "Friends" is widely viewed as the most notable and possibly the template for the modern ones.

AlexdeParis said:

Well, that distinction is all well and good, but I think it inadvertently raises the larger question of whether hip-hop is by definition a collaboration of rappers and "rhythm and blues" artists (or grooves, take your pick).

AlexdeParis said:

A thousand apopogies sir....it won't happen again...damm..

dseann said:

I wasn't trying to be mean or dismissive. Sorry if it came across that way. Anyway, as I understood it, the question was specifically talking about R&B singers and rappers collaborating on a song (with one of them as a guest star). Chic had nothing to do with the actual making/recording of "Rapper's Delight" and New Edition is just one group.

VinnyM27 said:

Yes. FTR, the song also features Stevie Wonder.


IIRC, "Friends" was a trailblazer of sorts in that it wasn't a remix and became a big crossover hit.

AlexdeParis said:

I know you're not being mean, I was just being silly, that's what the dumb face was about.

My thing with Rappers Delight is that it is a collaboration of R&B and Hip Hop in general because of the music. New Edition had a collaboration of both genres even though they were one group.

I get your point, it's cool.


[Edited 9/4/06 11:09am]

AlexdeParis said:

Yes it does! MC Vincent Price spit some FIRE on that track!

ThePunisher said:

dseann said:

The Sugar Hill Gang didn't perform with Chic; they simply rapped over the track of "Good Times." New Edition was a soul group who rapped on a few of their tracks -- if you're going that route, then Teena Marie's "Square Biz" preceded any New Edition records.

You have to go with Chaka Khan and Grandmaster Melle Mel om 1984's "I Feel for You" as the first soul/rap collaboration and then likely Rene & Angela with Kurtis Blow on 1985's "Save Your Love (for No. 1)."

Najee said:

I never said Chic performed with the Sugar Hill Gang.
Did you read my previous posts on this thread?
I said Sugar Hill used Chic's music(Good Times), which is exactly what you are saying now.
OK?
[Edited 9/4/06 11:53am]

Hey, U guys have made some great points - the Rene & Angela's "Save Your Love (for No. 1)" who was the rapper on that track? Was it Kurtis Blow?

It does appear that Chaka Kahn was the first commericaly successful song with a rapper. However, the trend didn't take off until 1989 - I think the New Jack Swing era in New York had a lot to do with it.

Yes, I'm in aggrement that Jody & Rakim's, Friends set the precedence. It was groundbreaking, there was so much buzz that Rakim was on this song and Jody was really on top of the POP world at the time. Rakim played a major role in the tracks success. When I look back, besides Rakim, only Big Daddy Kane (who has had a few collabo's of his own - most notably with Patti Labelle) could have pulled that off with Jody with similar success.

For some reason, even though Melle Mel is rapping on I Feel For You, it doesn't really stand out as being memorable. Do u guys agree? Maybe it's beacuse you think of Stevie playing the harmonica and Chaka singing...so Melle Mel is the last person U R thinking about.

dseann said:

I read your other statements, but the fact is The Sugar Hill Gang's "Rapper's Delight" shouldn't have been mentioned in the first place. It's not a collaboration in the first place, which is the point of this thread.

goat2004 said:

I can't agree there. It's a great cover all around, but Mel's rap (the beginning in particular) is the most memorable part of the song.

Najee said:

So why are you repeating what myself and Alexdeparis already went through?

goat2004 said:

Yes, it was Kurtis Blow who rapped on the beginning of "Save Your Love (for No. 1)?"

goat2004 said:

I'm confused, because it seems like you're coming up with reasons to disqualify songs released prior to 1989. By that that time, there were quite a handful of songs with soul artists collaborating with rappers on songs and vice versa.

What gauge are you using for commercial success? Chaka Khan's "I Feel for You" was a No. 1 R&B and a top five pop song that won a Grammy. Rene & Angela's "Save Your Love (for No. 1)" was a No. 1 R&B song. Rick James' "Loosey's Rap" (a song with Roxanne Shante) was a No. 1 song in 1988.
[Edited 9/4/06 12:20pm]

dseann said:

It didn't seem you saw Alex's point as much as you agreed to disagree in your previous statement to him. Like I said, the thread is about two or more acts collaborating on a rap/soul song -- which flies in the face of mentioning "Rapper's Delight" and New Edition in the first place.