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PrintableVinnyM27 said: revolution75 said: the real problem isn't with cassie, diddy, or the record co.
the listener is the problem.the listener seems to be labotomized(sic) didnt u hear the audience scream "go'head girl"? gil scott heron described it best, we have went from producers 2 consumers. and when the producer names the tune, the consumer has 2 dance. i am 31 years old and my tastes are old-fashioned. i believe in talent. i believe in artistry.it will take a full-fledged musical revolution for that 2 happen. that's why i will never disrespect an artist trying 2 say something. i believe in the floodgate theory. let me xplain: take a look back at any musical movement.let's use neo-soul as an example. think about all of the classic albums that came from that era. do u think maxwell's UHS would have came out if D's Brown Sugar wasn't successful? Nope that album (UHS) was supposed 2 come out the same time as Brown but Sony didnt know what 2 do with it until they saw D making $$$ from Brown. Now if we music geeks stop being snobs and support REAL artists like Van Hunt or Bilal (who has a classic sitting on the shelf right now), then the floodgates will open up. the record industry is all about the $$$ and when they see the listener (this time the producer)supporting real music, they have 2 dance. will this happen? sheeeeeit, i highly doubt it. but it CAN happen. as corny as it sounds, we need 2 come 2gether b4 the music dies. hope this makes sense.i like 2 babble  It's easy to say support real artists like Bilal and Van Hunt but if a tree falls in the woods and no one is there to hear it...(or in this case, an artist never gets any exposure and nobody hears them anywhere). I think there is going to start being a real reaction to how lame testerial radio formats along with the exposure that MTV and other media outlets gives artists and the consumers will start gravating more and more to the net to hear new artists, along with satelite radio (with R&B stations that don't just play Lil' John, et al.). ur correct. which was my point. these artists are falling on deaf ears. i dont know how many ppl reside on this org but da*n, if each and every single one of us support these artists, then the industry will start 2 take notice. u have seen the threads about so and so sucks or trying 2 b prince,etc. meanwhile, people like cassie is out there. these days,it's not about radio or tv. they dont have a chance.the listeners on ur clear channel or radio one owned stations dont care about musicianship or artistry. for christ sakes, andre 3000 is a frigging musical god 2 these people. where i come from, that cat is nothing but a fraud.if he is THAT talented and the second coming of the purple one, he would b able 2 bring it live. and we all know that will never happen. mark my word,it's going 2 take a musical revolution. meaning, when a few people come out and sell 500K with out the help of ur typical promotion, watch the industry open up the floodgates again. the reason the music was good in the seventies and they was so much diversity, the suits were music lovers and they were making$$$ from the diversity minor keys and drugs don't make a rollerskate jam | |
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There have always been Cassies in the music business. The problem is how much promotion and airtime is devoted to Cassie types these days. Its clearly unbalanced. If the Lizz Wrights and Ledesis and even the Amel Larrieuxs were given equal or more airtime on radio stations, the Cassies would come in for a minute and fade out quickly like they used to (who remembers Debbie Deb?) The problem is that labels are spending more and more money on artists that look good and less and less on artists that SOUND good. They neglect the talented artists on their label for the more physically appealing ones and it shows. Plus, nowadays the music industry is like Logan's Run. Once you're 30, you're dead to them. I grew up listening to grown artists when I was a kid. Nowadays, kids are only listening to their peers. Their peers aren't seasoned professionals but rather beginners with a little bit of an edge over their high school classmates. The motto for the industry these days seems to be "Be pretty, be young and we'll take care of the rest." That's what's wrong. | |
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BlaqueKnight said: There have always been Cassies in the music business. The problem is how much promotion and airtime is devoted to Cassie types these days. Its clearly unbalanced. If the Lizz Wrights and Ledesis and even the Amel Larrieuxs were given equal or more airtime on radio stations, the Cassies would come in for a minute and fade out quickly like they used to (who remembers Debbie Deb?) The problem is that labels are spending more and more money on artists that look good and less and less on artists that SOUND good. They neglect the talented artists on their label for the more physically appealing ones and it shows. Plus, nowadays the music industry is like Logan's Run. Once you're 30, you're dead to them. I grew up listening to grown artists when I was a kid. Nowadays, kids are only listening to their peers. Their peers aren't seasoned professionals but rather beginners with a little bit of an edge over their high school classmates. The motto for the industry these days seems to be "Be pretty, be young and we'll take care of the rest." That's what's wrong.
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BlaqueKnight said: Plus, nowadays the music industry is like Logan's Run. Once you're 30, you're dead to them.
Question: I do have a question though, especially because it appears to be fairly common amongst our performers.... why isn't there much interest or desire for our performers to desire putting their performances on DVD? I have asked other performers as well, and they don't seem to be that interested. Thanks for taking the time to respond!! George Duke: Actually, there are some performance DVDs available by some very gifted artists that are quite wonderful. Having said that, let me also say that many others equally as gifted don't get the shot for one reason or another. The offers just aren't there. In the end it's all about demographics and money. DVDs are expensive to make, and (since we are basically talking about Black artists) it appears that the return financially is not as great for most Black Artists; or at least that's the popular belief. Maybe the powers that be figure there are not enough black homes with DVDs. I don't know? Anyway, I've only been asked once to do a song for a free DVD, and I don't believe many saw it. For me personally, I believe the largest problem is my age, the total cost of production, and sales potential in the general marketplace. This brings to mind an even larger problem. It's hard enough for black artists my age to do a video! Who's gonna play it? As a result, most of us just don't want to be bothered with the hassle of doing something that we didn't get into the music business to do in the first place. The industry is extremely youth oriented. There is a real market for young black groups that have the right look and sound. But there are not many stations that will play new music by a mature artist. They tell us they love and respect us, but they don't honor us by allowing their listeners, of mostly young people, to know where the music they now listen to generated from. Keep in mind that there are some great Black Radio Stations out there that really care about their image and overall diversity of air play, but they are in the minority. The true Black stations entertain and teach. They realize they have a duty to the community that is outside ratings and money -- it is a balance that needs to be maintained! First of all, though these ideas about mature artists I expounded on above, are the common beliefs -- believe me, it's all a bunch of crap! It is extremely difficult for mature artists to even let their fans know they have new product, because they get little or no rotation at radio, little or no promotion or publicity, and little or no TV time. All these things require commitment, interest and cost money; marketing dollars the record companies, in general, are not willing to spend on a mature artist, based on what they perceive that artist is worth in the current market place; and as a result, radio won't play it! http://www.georgeduke.com/biz_1.html =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= tA  Tribal Disorder
http://www.soundclick.com...dID=182431 "Ya see, we're not interested in what you know...but what you are willing to learn. C'mon y'all." | |
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lemme add another point 2 that:
when i was growing up (now 31) in Cleveland,Ohio, the radio station was 93.1 that was the only black radio station after 108 went off of the air they played everything. anita baker was mixed up w/run dmc, for example. and i got a good lesson in what the quiet storm was with the radio show, for lovers only. in addition,there was video soul and video vibrations that pretty much did the same thing (merged the genres 2gether) somewhere along the line, music was broken down in2 all of these genres. the worst thing that could have happened was the "hip-hop/r&b" genre. that seperated the older R&B artists from the older ones. the older ones were left out in the cold. the same can be said for pop and rock. that d**n telecommunications act of 96 f*cked up a lot of shit. minor keys and drugs don't make a rollerskate jam | |
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It's really sad when you think about how much superficial things like age and looks play into music nowadays. The fact that the industry is run by nonmusicians who don't seem to have an appreciation for music and care about nothing but a quick return on profits has resulted in the Cassies of the world being shoved down our throats. Remember when Warner thought Prince wasn't ready to tour after For You? He put on smaller shows himself. He kept releasing albums and building a fanbase. People forget that Purple Rain was his sixth album. He worked to get to that point. Now kids expect Purple Rain success out the gate and so do they record companies. Back in the day record companies invested in true talents, because they saw the bigger picture.
I've been listening to Fleetwood Mac all day and was lamenting the fact that these popular young artists know nothing about telling a story with a song. All their songs are in the first person and seem to revolve around a similar theme of "I'm hot and you want me" or "This is how we do it in the club" or "You cheated on me/I'm cheating on you." They don't dare venture into topics like the journey of life, politics, or spirtuality. Lyrics nowadays are a joke. When was the last time you heard a really clever or poignant lyric from one of these artists? There's no similie, methaphor, irony - nothing. Just mundane, grade school-level narratives. BK made a good point about listening to older artists. When I was younger (I'm 31) I listened to older artists, and it was like they were teaching you about life and things you were going to experience. They were old enough to have had experiences to reflect on and share with listeners. Look at the Police, Sting was 28 when they started out. This peer-to-peer teeny bopper stuff has always been around, but it just dominates the scene now. Thinking about radio, revolution75, you are right about the segregation of genres. The black stations here in Chicago were WGCI and WBMX. We used to hear songs like The Police's Voices Inside My Head and the Stones's Miss You on those stations along with R&B and Rap. We heard Prince, Anita Baker, Run DMC, New Edition, Grand Master Flash and The Isley brothers alongside eachother. That would never happen with the way radio is currently programmed. [Edited 8/18/06 13:33pm] perfection is a fallacy of the imagination... | |
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bellanoche said: It's really sad when you think about how much superficial things like age and looks play into music nowadays. The fact that the industry is run by nonmusicians who don't seem to have an appreciation for music and care about nothing but a quick return on profits has resulted in the Cassies of the world being shoved down our throats. Remember when Warner thought Prince wasn't ready to tour after For You? He put on smaller shows himself. He kept releasing albums and building a fanbase. People forget that Purple Rain was his sixth album. He worked to get to that point. Now kids expect Purple Rain success out the gate and so do they record companies. Back in the day record companies invested in true talents, because they saw the bigger picture.
I've been listening to Fleetwood Mac all day and was lamenting the fact that these popular young artists know nothing about telling a story with a song. All their songs are in the first person and seem to revolve around a similar theme of "I'm hot and you want me" or "This is how we do it in the club" or "You cheated on me/I'm cheating on you." They don't dare venture into topics like the journey of life, politics, or spirtuality. Lyrics nowadays are a joke. When was the last time you heard a really clever or poignant lyric from one of these artists? There's no similie, methaphor, irony - nothing. Just mundane, grade school-level narratives. BK made a good point about listening to older artists. When I was younger (I'm 31) I listened to older artists, and it was like they were teaching you about life and things you were going to experience. They were old enough to have had experiences to reflect on and share with listeners. Look at the Police, Sting was 28 when they started out. This peer-to-peer teeny bopper stuff has always been around, but it just dominates the scene now. Thinking about radio, revolution75, you are right about the segregation of genres. The black stations here in Chicago were WGCI and WBMX. We used to hear songs like The Police's Voices Inside My Head and the Stones's Miss You on those stations along with R&B and Rap. We heard Prince, Anita Baker, Run DMC, New Edition, Grand Master Flash and The Isley brothers alongside eachother. That would never happen with the way radio is currently programmed. [Edited 8/18/06 13:33pm] Damn.....BMX? U are reaching back into the time zone. The last time I listened to radio was BMX and GCI in 1982. | |
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and bell,u r on point
cleveland radio did the same thing, the stones was on black radio because that song grooved. that will never happen 2day.just like u will never hear a rock song by a black artist, like p's fury, on rock radio. ur sooo right about 2day's lyricists. my girl loves xtina. i am TRYING 2 get in2 her new cd. the problem is her lyrics. they are sooo one dimensional. just like most of what's on the radio funny u mention mac, i was shopping yesterday and the soundtrack was a muzak version of their hits. i was in heaven. i fell in love with them becuase i was going through similar situations 2 the lyrics on rumours. the lyrics to dreams.....i am going 2 go pull that out..thanx minor keys and drugs don't make a rollerskate jam | |
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Still the host of the show with their politically correct asses said she "tore the stage up". | |
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i'm speechless | |
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Rhondab said:
i'm speechless And ya still managed to get out 2 words  2010: Healing the Wounds of the Past.... http://prince.org/msg/8/325740 | |
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SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said: Rhondab said:
i'm speechless And ya still managed to get out 2 words  shut up....
that chyle is just plain awful. She makes me wanna go buy a Ciara cd...even Ashanti....good grief! | |
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That was very painful to watch. Prince please come back. I need a fix so bad!!!!! | |
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Rhondab said: SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said: And ya still managed to get out 2 words shut up....
that chyle is just plain awful. She makes me wanna go buy a Ciara cd...even Ashanti....good grief! That's pretty bad because those chicks suck dokey ball juice! 2010: Healing the Wounds of the Past.... http://prince.org/msg/8/325740 | |
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Bad Boy princess moves on after less-than-stellar performances, racy-video leak.
Even while he's partying overseas, Diddy isn't too out of touch to know what's going on in the U.S. Cassie, Bad Boy's latest princess, debuted at #4 this week on the SoundScan charts, selling just north of 100,000 copies of her self-titled debut. Last week, however, was a different story. An alternate "Me & U" video — which Cassie calls unofficial — leaked to the Net. In the clip, Cassie is getting very intimate with a man, singing in her bra and panties, pulling a man's pants down and getting videotaped Paris Hilton style. But that seemed to be the least of her problems. While promoting her album last week, Cassie stopped at New York radio station Hot 97, where she had interviews with Funkmaster Flex and Angie Martinez. In one of the show's more controversial segments, Cassie rated several male recording artists — including Ne-Yo, Justin Timberlake and T.I. — on a scale of 1-10 for sexiness. To top it off, Cassie had some less-than-stellar performances on MTV's "TRL" and BET's "106 & Park." While in the U.K., Diddy brushed off Cassie's rocky performances, chalking it up to her inexperience. "She had her first television performance, and she had an all right performance," he said. "You could hear the nervousness in her voice. And to be honest, I kind of smiled at it, because it made me really appreciate what I really love about her: She's a regular person. And we, as artists, we sometimes get nervous. I told her it's like riding a bike: You're gonna fall down, you got to keep on getting on it. I'm with her through her development, and I have no questioning on her ability, on her singing ability. It just made me appreciate that she got nervous, and it was kind of cute to me, to be honest. It takes time when you're developing a new artist," he continued. "You can't be fickle. Some people are going to have good days and bad days. The thing about Bad Boy is, we're with our artists through all days. She's not an artist that has a problem with her vocals or singing. You've got to understand that success for her is coming out of nowhere. It's just so huge, and sometimes everybody handles it differently. So I'm quite sure she'll get over it. She's going to have to. That's part of being a recording artist, and sometimes it takes time. I don't care how many performances it is, I'm going to be with her until she gets it right." Cassie addressed last week's events on her MySpace page. "I am aware that my live performances have been pretty bad," she posted. "No excuses, I'm still getting over stage fright. I am very upset with the series of events this week, and I do not appreciate people making me look and sound crazy. I'm not a whore or a bitch, which is what people have been making me out to be. I'm a 19-year-old girl, I'm single, and I'm working my ass off." --www.mtv.com | |
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PurpleCharm said: Bad Boy princess moves on after less-than-stellar performances, racy-video leak.
Even while he's partying overseas, Diddy isn't too out of touch to know what's going on in the U.S. Cassie, Bad Boy's latest princess, debuted at #4 this week on the SoundScan charts, selling just north of 100,000 copies of her self-titled debut. Last week, however, was a different story. An alternate "Me & U" video — which Cassie calls unofficial — leaked to the Net. In the clip, Cassie is getting very intimate with a man, singing in her bra and panties, pulling a man's pants down and getting videotaped Paris Hilton style. But that seemed to be the least of her problems. While promoting her album last week, Cassie stopped at New York radio station Hot 97, where she had interviews with Funkmaster Flex and Angie Martinez. In one of the show's more controversial segments, Cassie rated several male recording artists — including Ne-Yo, Justin Timberlake and T.I. — on a scale of 1-10 for sexiness. To top it off, Cassie had some less-than-stellar performances on MTV's "TRL" and BET's "106 & Park." While in the U.K., Diddy brushed off Cassie's rocky performances, chalking it up to her inexperience. "She had her first television performance, and she had an all right performance," he said. "You could hear the nervousness in her voice. And to be honest, I kind of smiled at it, because it made me really appreciate what I really love about her: She's a regular person. And we, as artists, we sometimes get nervous. I told her it's like riding a bike: You're gonna fall down, you got to keep on getting on it. [b]I'm with her through her development, and I have no questioning on her ability, on her singing ability. It just made me appreciate that she got nervous, and it was kind of cute to me, to be honest. It takes time when you're developing a new artist," he continued. "You can't be fickle. Some people are going to have good days and bad days. The thing about Bad Boy is, we're with our artists through all days. She's not an artist that has a problem with her vocals or singing. You've got to understand that success for her is coming out of nowhere. It's just so huge, and sometimes everybody handles it differently. So I'm quite sure she'll get over it. She's going to have to. That's part of being a recording artist, and sometimes it takes time. I don't care how many performances it is, I'm going to be with her until she gets it right."[/b] Cassie addressed last week's events on her MySpace page. "I am aware that my live performances have been pretty bad," she posted. "No excuses, I'm still getting over stage fright. I am very upset with the series of events this week, and I do not appreciate people making me look and sound crazy. I'm not a whore or a bitch, which is what people have been making me out to be. I'm a 19-year-old girl, I'm single, and I'm working my ass off." --www.mtv.com Puffy is so full of crap. The chick can't sing... bottom line. She sounds horrible on record and she sounds horrible live. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I'll play it first and tell you what it is later. -Miles Davis- | |
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It's a shame when so many young people who have talent may be afraid to enter this industry because they think they are suppose to have a [i]certain look and won't be accepted; meanwhile we could be missing out on great artists/musicians.[/i]
The above remark is what I said on another thread, but it is good timing for this thread. This is what I mean about the industry, you have so many talented artists out there that may not fit what the industry or consumers demand. Everyone focuses so much physical appearance and not "real talent", so the industry gives the consumer what they ask for and then they complain. The industry believes this is what the consumer wants "looks over talent". It is a shame. A female or male with average looks or a little heavier in weight, seems to have it much harder, because no matter how good they could sing, or how much amazing talent they have, people will criticize them for not "fitting the usual fake, no talent image" they see spread across their screens, seems you just can't win. [Edited 8/18/06 17:59pm] | |
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http://www.youtube.com/wa...XvUwVsCSB0
Tommy Mottola is her manager. 
Let's see...Cassie went to a performing arts high and studied dance. ..but she can't dance or sing. [Edited 8/18/06 19:17pm] | |
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PurpleCharm said: I'm a 19-year-old girl, I'm single, and I'm working my ass off."
Perhaps if she quite being all consumed with being 19, single and working her ass, she could take some damn singing and dancing lessons!  | |
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lastdecember said: Ive seen alot of press over this lately, 19 year old singer Cassie gave a pretty bad "Live" performance on 106th and park and the whole world is in an uproar. Ok it was bad, but lets blame the girl, lets blame the real problem. The labels, industry people, Producers who are responsible for all of this and the lack of being able to get an artist that can actually perform and not just look good. A recent quote from Angie Stone summed up RB in a nutshell, "its all about Eye Candy and not about Ear Candy" so true, its acutally borderline "pimping" basically. Now whenever something like this happens there is always a scapegoat, now its Cassie, but lets be real i have seen tons of performances from the new breed of artists out there and they all have no clue what they are doing at all. I caught a few moments of Puffys Making the Band and i saw him bring in this guy "Pooh Bear" whos a Vocal Coach, this guy knew nothing about vocals and singing, he was having these girls sing notes they had no clue what they were doing. Like anything else people will always fixate on one person and blame them, but hey dont blame "Crack" blame the dealer, its the same in this matter too. Are we really surprised Cassie cant sing live, or Rihanna uses tons of backing tracks or really any other you want to insert herer. But just look at the facts, RB artists (mainly) cant sell concert tickets, rarely tour or play shows. Which is why when there is a current RB artist touring there are about 15 on the bill and still cant sell out, hopefully i am not the only one seeing the big drop off in the fact that someone can sell a million albums but not a concert ticket, there is a connection.
Very well said. I'm pretty old school and back in the day, you got your ass kicked to make sure you were in shape before you went on stage, but most artists already had "IT" when they were getting their ass kicked. You can kick a pretty girl's ass till the cows come home, but you're gonna get as much talent as you will water from squeezing a rock. Many of these pretty kids are mediocre to begin with and they're being pushed out front to be the next Anita Baker or Toni Braxton and so on, and then you have these lame ass songs being written. If I hear new lame ass lyrics being squiggled to an old soul classic I'm gonna find a producer and throw a cupcake upside his head or something. But it ain't gonna change until people make a stand and stop buying the shit. If you wanna see eye candy, stick to porno - at least you're getting your money's worth. LQ | |
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houtex86 said: Still the host of the show with their politically correct asses said she "tore the stage up".
Politically correct? 
I'm afraid you're guilty of using that term not only as a weird sort of insult but completely out of context. WTF? "A Watcher scoffs at gravity!" | |
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It sucks being as young as I am and living in a smallish city when it comes to finding music by artists that have a bit of talent. Thank the gods for my inherited record collection and History of Rock class back in high school. What would I have done without them? "A Watcher scoffs at gravity!" | |
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Who the hell is Cassie? It is not known why FuNkeNsteiN capitalizes his name as he does, though some speculate sunlight deficiency caused by the most pimpified white guy afro in Nordic history.
- Lammastide | |
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FuNkeNsteiN said: Who the hell is Cassie?
I'd tell you but by the time I finish typing, she'll be a has-been that never-was, so there's really no point in doing so.
I just wanted to tell you that I love your avatar! BOOTSY!!!  | |
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bellanoche said: It's really sad when you think about how much superficial things like age and looks play into music nowadays. The fact that the industry is run by nonmusicians who don't seem to have an appreciation for music and care about nothing but a quick return on profits has resulted in the Cassies of the world being shoved down our throats. Remember when Warner thought Prince wasn't ready to tour after For You? He put on smaller shows himself. He kept releasing albums and building a fanbase. People forget that Purple Rain was his sixth album. He worked to get to that point. Now kids expect Purple Rain success out the gate and so do they record companies. Back in the day record companies invested in true talents, because they saw the bigger picture.
I've been listening to Fleetwood Mac all day and was lamenting the fact that these popular young artists know nothing about telling a story with a song. All their songs are in the first person and seem to revolve around a similar theme of "I'm hot and you want me" or "This is how we do it in the club" or "You cheated on me/I'm cheating on you." They don't dare venture into topics like the journey of life, politics, or spirtuality. Lyrics nowadays are a joke. When was the last time you heard a really clever or poignant lyric from one of these artists? There's no similie, methaphor, irony - nothing. Just mundane, grade school-level narratives. [Edited 8/18/06 13:33pm] There's also the fact that no one knows how to write decent melodies anymore. Certainly not in pop/RnB. | |
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FuNkeNsteiN said: Who the hell is Cassie?
That's what I'm saying. Never heard of her, but then again I ignore most of what passes for R&B(and rap) these days. I'm strictly old school. |
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VinnyM27 said: I never watch "106 and Park" but I landed on this and OMG, what a fucking diaster. I assumed her mike was off (wasn't it or was she really trying to sing there). You know, I read the strangest review in the Detroit Free Press on the Cassie album. It basically said she sounded very disinterested and had no idea how to sing real R&B, the album was extermely short and that it was a good thing that she was trying to be Aaliyah...but it gave the album 3 out of 4 stars! It was kind of postive, I guess. Maybe the reviewer is just that damned jaded. Nah, the CHECK cleared. "Who gon' clean up all deez Flowers" ----Eddie Murphy as mr. clarence | |
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SexyBeautifulOne said: FuNkeNsteiN said: Who the hell is Cassie?
I'd tell you but by the time I finish typing, she'll be a has-been that never-was, so there's really no point in doing so.
I just wanted to tell you that I love your avatar! BOOTSY!!! The bigger version of this pic is definitely the best Bootsy pic I've ever seen It is not known why FuNkeNsteiN capitalizes his name as he does, though some speculate sunlight deficiency caused by the most pimpified white guy afro in Nordic history.
- Lammastide | |
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FuNkeNsteiN said: Who the hell is Cassie?
I guess Page 1 of THIS thread didn't make any damn sense to you neither!!! | |
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