so, i don't know if this has been discused here before, or if this is common knowledge, but i put on horace silver - song for my father, and the opening is the exact opening for rikki don't lose that number.

obviously horave silver's song for my father predates steely dan. i know they were big jazz-heads, so i would imagine it was done on purpose as a tribute.

Yes this has been discussed here before.
(and I inadvertently referenced the wrong SD tune )

Something I just discovered though is that they were successfully sued for plagiarism by Keith Jarrett.
It was over a tune from...



...Belonging (1974) called Long As You Know You're Living Yours.

I just listened to the tune and the intros (along with some rhythmic parallels in the body of the tune) are quite similiar.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Pianist Keith Jarrett sued Steely Dan in 1981 after Becker and Fagen admitted -- initially off-the-record -- in a lengthy Musician interview with David Breskin that the intro to the title track of Gaucho was very similar to a song he had written himself and recorded with Jan Garbarek entitled Long As You Know You're Living Yours (on their 1974 ECM album, Belonging).
"We were heavily influenced by that particular piece of music," Donald said.

"I love it," Walter continued. (They later approved their off-the-record comments for publication.)

"We were talking about borrowing," Breskin said.

Donald Fagen: "Hell, we steal. We're the robber barons of rock 'n' roll."

Breskin then said, "The only other thing that seems obviously borrowed is Glamour Profession. The rhythm and the feel of it, the way the synthesizer/horn vamp swings against the pulse sound very much like Dr. Buzzard's Original Savannah Band.

"I don't listen to them. Donald listens to them. But I see what you mean, though."

"I liked their first record," Donald said.

"I'm not saying it was a conscious act of pilferage."

"That song was influenced by disco music in general," Donald said. "But what you're saying is basically valid. There are other things that are borrowed, too."
http://www.granatino.com/...7short.htm
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

To my ears the actual melodies are quite different.
Be that as it may, Keith Jarrett is now listed as one of the writers of (and receives royalties from) the song Gaucho.


tA

Tribal Disorder

http://www.soundclick.com...dID=182431

theAudience said:

Yup, I posted about the Keith Jarrett/Gaucho incident a couple of times in our Steely Dan threads (in fact, I may have mentioned it during that earlier "Song for My Father" SD thread not long ago)...but, there's that quote from Sir Thomas Beechum:

"Mediocre composers borrow, Great composers steal"


I guess it's just that sometimes they're gonna end up paying royalties,





...
[Edited 8/17/06 9:08am]

paligap said:

Now that I think about it, you dang sholl did.

"What a drag it is getting old."


The mind is the first thing to go.



tA

Tribal Disorder

http://www.soundclick.com...dID=182431

i figured that it had to have been at least noticed before, if not discussed, because it is so blatant.

sometimes, folks will say, oh, that sounds like this or that, and if you use your imagination, you can perhaps see it. but this is just straight out, exactly the same.

funny thing is that i have had song for my father for about 2-3 years, but never actually sat down to give it a listen. i have several other horace silver items, and love them, and had heard good things about song for my father, but never made the time to formally listen.

...


actually, this makes me wonder...if he ever decided to pursue it, d'you think Horace Silver would have a claim as strong as Keith Jarrett? it kinda seems like a similar situation...




...
[Edited 8/17/06 12:39pm]

paligap said:

The SFMF/RDLTN intros are pretty much identical. But again, the melodies are different.
Seems like a Horace Silver case would be a slam-dunk using Keith Jarrett's as a precedent.



tA

Tribal Disorder

http://www.soundclick.com...dID=182431