mistermaxxx said:

Man are your posts hard to follow; consider paragraphs and complete sentences.

I am still not going to comment on your skewed racist view of black and white in the music industry, but I will say that you can't jump to the conclusion that this record would not have sold if it were done by a black artist because the album was done by Bruce Springsteen who is a unique and popular voice loved by millions. Any release by Bruce Springsteen and the E Street Band would have opened at number 1. In the end it doesn't matter because the album is VERY good and that is of course all that counts.

Yes you were right about Glen being traded and while they didn't get much for him the trade will probably help them as a team I suppose. They will be able to get Tim Thomas more playing time and they now have the money to re-sign Michael Redd which is huge.

Mistermaxx said: Dumb Because I'm not Politically Correct??and BTW I told you Glenn Big Dog Robinson was gonna be Traded.but Damn that Trade was So Tossed! for Toni Kukoc&Leon Smith?? that is a Badd Joke. anyway Toby Keith,Alan Jackson,Springsteen all Red,White&Blue now if a Black Artist does this will He Debut at Number 1??you know Why? Because the Industry ain't gonna Sell A Black Artist Being Patriotic By themselves.that joke that went for a Re-Make of "What's Going On? Proves that Point.[/quote]

You know what? You're right about almost everthing in your post. The industry WOULDN'T (or at least HASN'T) sold a black artist being patriotic, at least not as far as I can remember.

But I would like to disagree with one impression I got from your post.

Lumping Bruce Springsteen in with Toby Keith and Alan Jackson is a mistake. Your'e trying to politicize Bruce, which is fine, but politcally, Bruce is far to the left, while Toby Keith, Alan Jackson and just about every other country act is solidly Republican.

In fact, President Ronald Reagan tried to use "Born in the USA" during his 1984 re-elction campaign. Bruce not only no, but hell no.

Here's a better one - during the "Born in the USA" tour, Fawn Hall (remember her? Ollie North's secretary? She was into shredding documents before Arthur Andersen made it cool.) sent a note to Springsteen telling him she'd like to come backstage after the show.

Springsteen sent a note back that said, "I don't like you. I don't like your boss. I don't like what you did". Classic!

VINCENT said:

Actually he's not the first to do so. Though, he might be the most mainstream artist to create an entire album about it.

I really don't flow with the villifying of Springsteen as a
modern day Elvis or a lapdog for the Republican Right.


I don't see it as one musical influence regined supreme in an era,
least of all the 80s where there was a lot of diverse things happening.
Bruce's Muse is legit, though it doesn't speak to all or for all. Who does?

Also, his politics are full of compassion and his activism is sincere.
He's a lot further from that extreme right of the 80s that he gets
lumped in with because of the"patriotism" of BITUSA -- which
is really a indictment of the national policies of that time,but Reagan & Bush
hadn't quite figured that out. Folks only heard the refrain not the caustic
lyrics in the choruses.


BTW mistermaxx: that remake of "WGO?" was just flat out bad. I think
your own words agree with that when you call the remake a joke.

Supernova said:

For the record the entire album does not deal with September 11.

I would say half the record doesn't deal at all with 9/11, with about 5 songs overtly dealing with 9/11, and a couple of songs that directly talk about the events of that day.

PFunkjazz said:

Precisely. But I think people only heard the chorus and didn't tune into what the verses were. Reagan was just too obtuse to know it.

Even though I have yet to invest a reasonable amount of time listening to Bruce's music (past or present) I have always respected his abilities as a musician & a performer; he does come across with energy, & he has a way of painting a certain picture in his music.

It's not surprising that his new album is being so well received; BITUSA struck a chord back in '84, after all, so it makes sense that this new album- with its references to September 11- is striking a chord with many people now.


That said, I'm sensing a sort of "media push" to hype up this record into I don't know what..
it could build up into some overhyped thing that Bruce might not exactly want to be associated with.


Elsewhere, SkeletonKey made a good point about what Prince (& MJ) should be doing in terms of what approach to take in making a record- about the accessibility..



More power to Bruce.
I'd rather listen to him than most of the
BULLSHIT
that passes for "r&b"/rock/pop today..
MAYBE a few of these pretenders & wannabes will take some notes (but really, I'm not holding my breath on that..)

Bruce is the man! did anyone see Letterman (fri.)when they
did "Lonesome Day" it was great,what chemistry,that's what a
band is all about,it should inspire P to get the Revolution
back together,but it won't.I'm sure we will have to listen
to Larry babble on about the "man upstairs" till the day he
keels over WAKE UP PRINCE!!!1

guys we are far from Jungle Land and Backstreets or Adam raised a Cain here.

I mean honestly I love Bruce but many of the songs on his last CD are simply overproduced, too heavy, too simplistic when not simply ridiculous.

2 absolute ridiculous tunes on The Rising are: Let's be friends (reminds of Prince trying to sound reaggae in Blue Light) / Waitin on a sunny day (some Billy Joel crap ? An attempt to make a new Hungry Heart?)

Poor melodies: i.e The Nothing Man (good lyrics but my god how poor the melody is!!!)

Heavy arrangements: i.e Lonesome Day: How awful these violins and keyboards sound on this tune! This song must have been written a thousand times by other artists before.

An attempt to make a new "Rosalita" but it simply doesn't sound right: Mary's Place

Empty Sky: Hello! REM has done this one already!

Come one...People love the CD because half of it is about september the 11th. It was a great commercial idea. I'm not saying that Bruce did it intentionally but it is a bit too much in the face isn't it?! The sony people must have been delighted the first time they listened to The Rising: Bruce + E Street Band + September the 11th = $$$

Now as a musician Bruce has nothing to be proud of with this CD. And if he thinks the E street Band plays well on tunes like The Fuse well he should buy a ticket to the next David Bowie concert because his band is ten times better than the E street Band.

love machine is correct. bruce springsteen is an America icon and his music will long hold a place in the American zeitgeist. Furthermore, the sort of black vs. white, self-loathing based mentality that is so prominent in some peoples views can hardly be viewed as intelligent.

cofiko said:

SOCIAL icon certainly not a MUSICAL icon

VINCENT said:

Total bullcrap. If you are writing a up-to-date history of rock & roll
you would definitely have a chapter on him (or one where he figured prominently).

I'm not talking about CHARTS OF THE 80S or BEST VIDEOS or
MY FAVORITE DANCE HITS.

PFunkjazz said:

Thank you PFunkjazz.

I find it interesting how people around here put down any artist that they do not like.

Bruce Springsteen is both a social icon and a musical icon and if you can't see that you need help.

I don't much care for the music of David Bowie, but I am not posting on all the Bowie threads pretending that he is untalented and not a musical icon. If I did that I believe that it would make me look unintelligent and I this is how I feel about certain people on this thread.

.

RodeoSchro said:

You know what? You're right about almost everthing in your post. The industry WOULDN'T (or at least HASN'T) sold a black artist being patriotic, at least not as far as I can remember.

But I would like to disagree with one impression I got from your post.

Lumping Bruce Springsteen in with Toby Keith and Alan Jackson is a mistake. Your'e trying to politicize Bruce, which is fine, but politcally, Bruce is far to the left, while Toby Keith, Alan Jackson and just about every other country act is solidly Republican.

In fact, President Ronald Reagan tried to use "Born in the USA" during his 1984 re-elction campaign. Bruce not only no, but hell no.

Here's a better one - during the "Born in the USA" tour, Fawn Hall (remember her? Ollie North's secretary? She was into shredding documents before Arthur Andersen made it cool.) sent a note to Springsteen telling him she'd like to come backstage after the show.

Springsteen sent a note back that said, "I don't like you. I don't like your boss. I don't like what you did". Classic![/quote]Yeah I Remember Him Turning down Reagan.but I was saying that 9-11-01 is Pushed Heavily by the Media&with Him Seen as Mr.Red,White&Blue it lumps Him that way with the Toby Keith's,Alan Jacksons&Lee Greenwood's of the World.

lovemachine said:

I respect Bruce Sprinsteen for all His Success but I don't truly Vibe off Him.that doesn't make you less Intelligent it means you don't get that Vibe from him.Prince,MJ have said certain things along the lines of Respecting Him but not really a Fan.and Please don't mention Bowie&Springsteen in the Same Breath: Bowie Had James Brown Biting Him off "Fame".Springsteen had John Cougar Mellencamp biting aspects of His Career big difference I Might add?Springsteen has Talent&Live alot of Energy but He isn't a Mover or A Shaker Artist IMHO.as for Him being Number 1 Debuting? hard to say because 10 Years Back with His 2 New Albums He didn't really Roll up Big Numbers then.

mistermaxxx said:

Since your argument is based on perceptions, sales and chart positons, rather than the music, I'll keep that in
mind when evaluating your humble opininon.

VINCENT said:

how the hell is bruce springsteen not a musical icon...?

please explain this shit to me...

EllisDee said:

when you live in a purple box and only eat, sleep or shit prince...


diversity is the spice of life...and its truly sad how soo many people here lack it...without diversity you have no perspective...and *that* explains half the sorry arse posts on this darn site...

PFunkjazz said:

Alright Here Goes: His Arrangements are alright better when he first Came out nothing Special.Production is alright nothing special.Instrumentalist Clarence is Cool&So is His Drummer.Bruce is Alright.as a Song-Writer this is probably Hsi Saving Grace.He is a Good lyricist.as a Vocalist He Sounds like He is Stuffed with X-Lax.and Before you go Ring A ROund the Rosey for your Boy Bruce Remember that Him&Sony only Released a Greatest Hits Album that was for songs that Charted number 3&Higher.so don't go thinking He doesn't care about Numbers.He is a Pop Guy All the way.I don't have to Evaluate You.I Got Much Props for Your Music Knowledge,Intelligence&the way you put stuff down.but you need to know that not everybody is Feeling Red,White&Blue with Bruce.Let me break something down for you: everything matters when you are Evaluating a Artist especially when a Artist comes with any type of Hype?Personally Seeing Barry Manilow Coming Back is far More Cooler to me than Seeing X-Lax Springsteen IMHO.

Thank you PFunkjazz.

I find it interesting how people around here put down any artist that they do not like.

Bruce Springsteen is both a social icon and a musical icon and if you can't see that you need help.

I don't much care for the music of David Bowie, but I am not posting on all the Bowie threads pretending that he is untalented and not a musical icon. If I did that I believe that it would make me look unintelligent and I this is how I feel about certain people on this thread.

.[/quote]

Hello!!! I've been a Springsteen fan for twenty years. I have everything about him. I have seen him more than 60 times in concert in the USA and in Europe! And now you tell me I don't like him!!!

I'm sorry his last CD was the Ghost of Tom Joad many many many years ago. Waiting so many years for this "The Rising" is very disappointing. If Prince had come up with such poor songs (musically) after so many years people would spit on him (they do anyway whatever he does good or bad).

Now listen to Lonesome Day and The Nothing Man if you think it's Bruce at his best.

Shall I suggest that you buy Darkness on the edge of town and listen to it just to feel the difference. It's like listening to Sign O The Times and then Graffiti Bridge. Ouachhh!

SkletonKee said:

sadly enough, it actually makes sense to me now... if it's prince, it's good... if it's not prince, it's still good if he had some input into it (the time, jill jones, etc, etc)... if it's not prince and he had nothing to do with it, it's the worst shit i've ever heard in my life...


ugh...

thanks...

mistermaxxx said:

Yeah I Remember Him Turning down Reagan.but I was saying that 9-11-01 is Pushed Heavily by the Media&with Him Seen as Mr.Red,White&Blue it lumps Him that way with the Toby Keith's,Alan Jacksons&Lee Greenwood's of the World.[/quote]

Bruce was pissed and rightfully so because Reagan tried to use the song "Born In The USA" as a patriotic anthem for his darn political platform and the song is really about an American soldier living in a state of despair and trying to come to grip with his hard life. You get the sense that Reagan never really listened to the song...he only heard the chorus "BORN IN THE USA"!!! Pitiful, I tell you.