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PrintableI like Quincy. But as lilgish said, Mike was destined for superstardom. I love Mj´s work with or without Quincy. Off the wall and Thriller were great, had the biggest succes, but my favourite album is Dangerous anyway. OF course Quincy heavily contributed to MJ´s success, but the greatest hits were written by MJ anyway (Billie Jean, Beat it, Don´t stop till you get enough etc.) And letś not forget that it was not only music that contributed to his succes the most. The videos and the dancing worked as well and that were areas that Quincy had nothing to do with. So to sum it up. I think Quincy contributed a lot, I like and respect him and would love to see them work together again, but if they don´t, I don´t mind. My favourite MJ songs are the ones he wrote all by himself anyway..Actually I also love songs he wrote with Teddy Riley - I think they did some amazing work together, too. "When Michael Jackson is just singing and dancing, you just think this is an astonishing talent. And he has had this astounding talent all his life, but we want him to be floored as well. We really don´t like the idea that he could have it all." | |
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whoknows said: Adisa said: All these gaht dang posts and nobody’s had the balls (or sense) enuff to answer the question honestly.
PRINCE!! While Michael truly was the ish back then along came Prince, the polar opposite of MJ, and became a superstar. Naturally the comparisons would begin and the age old question of “Who’s bad(der)” would commence and the debate of musicianship and songwriting would slug it out round after round. For Michael to have any weight in this particular aspect of the debate Q’s role would have to be dimished to “just the producer who didn’t really do anything. MJ was good and is good without him” 
This attempts to boost Michael to Prince’s level of musicianship and songwriting (yeah, mofo, I said it) are blinding folks to the fact the Q, as the “producer who didn’t really do anything” not only held the responsibility that the songs that make up these great albums would do, but played a major role in the arrangements of these songs (that’s outlining note for note what gets played or sung) and made Mike a better singer and thus a better solo artist by assigning him to Seth Riggs. I basically love everything Mike has done, with Bobby Taylor, The Corporation, Hal Davis, Freddie Perren, Mel Larson, Jerry Marcellino, Holland, Dozier & Holland, Sam Brown, Gamble and Huff, McFadden and Whitehead, Dexter Wansel, Quincy Jones, Teddy Riley, Bill Bottrell, Glen Ballard, Jam and Lewis, Dallas Austin, R. Kelly, David Foster, Rodney Jerkins, and Andre Harris.  Long ass list, but Q gets the most mention indeed.
 Don't agree with everything in there, but it's certainly true that Quincy understood the importance of finding and selecting the best songs. That kind of quality control went out the window when Michael left him. Also, one thing which harmed Michael on Bad was that the balance of power on that album had swung in his favour so much that he was able to overrule Quincy on key decisions. Hence the dated production sound on Bad as Michael insisted on using all the latest sounds of the moment. Contrast that with Quincy's 89 album Back On The Block and you'll hear the difference in sound quality. Then Michael started working with all the latest producers on Dangerous and you got crap like I Can't Let Her Get Away and She Drives Me Wild. Songs that Quincy would have kicked to the curb without a second thought. Also, the productions were never as layered again as Michael followed trends rather than leading them. That another thing, by the time Dangerous came around MJ had stopped being innovative, he was basically following trends. I mean what was so original about Dangerous  It can't be New Jack Swing because Bobby Brown had worked with Teddy Riley earlier on his debut album and had taken it to the masses. Do you guys who are old enough remember, well before Usher and JT, peeps talked about Bobby Brown taking over MJ crown, because at the time he was on fire.
Dangerous was a decent album, but it is no where near as influential and innovative has Off The Wall or even Thriller for that matter. | |
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whatsgoingon said: I think the main thing about others producers that have worked with MJ is they allow alot of hit and miss stuff on his albums, as well as the good stuff. The best album ever made is going to have one or two cheesy/corny songs, but on the likes of Dangerous yes we have "Remember the Time", "In the closet" but then we have the sap of "Heal the World", o.k it went to Nr1, but so did the "Bob the Builder" and the "Crazy frog" songs.
 as well as "Gone too soon" etc.I've actually grown to love "Heal the World." Yes, it's sappy beyond belief, but it's also pretty. I'm not fond of "Gone Too Song," which is the album's only weak song IMO. On History we have songs like "Earth Song", "childhood" and "smile".
"Earth Song" was the one that went #1. It's Michael's biggest UK hit. That's another one that I hated upon release, but really like now. Again, it's pretty and powerful. I also like the understated cover of "Smile." OTOH, I hate "Childhood" with the heat of 1000 suns. Yeah, Mike, I saw "The Jacksons: An American Dream." I've seen your childhood. 
On Vince we have "The lost children".
 I mean these songs make the "Girl is mine" and "Girlfriend" from Thriller and OTW, which many people think are quite cheesy seem like hard-core funk..No comment on "The Lost Children."  Those other two are favorites of mine. I don't know why some people try to resist a little cheese. It tastes good and it's good for you. 
Without Quincy Michael albums have definetly become more "disneyfied" as well as more dis-jointed.
I'm honestly not sure the "Disneyfication" is necessarily bad. If that's representative of Michael, I'm all for it. I'd put "Will You Be There" in that group, so it's worth of it for that song alone. As far as being disjointed goes, that's probably a combination of Quincy leaving and having multiple producers on each album. "Whitney was purely and simply one of a kind." ~ Clive Davis | |
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whatsgoingon said: whoknows said: Don't agree with everything in there, but it's certainly true that Quincy understood the importance of finding and selecting the best songs. That kind of quality control went out the window when Michael left him. Also, one thing which harmed Michael on Bad was that the balance of power on that album had swung in his favour so much that he was able to overrule Quincy on key decisions. Hence the dated production sound on Bad as Michael insisted on using all the latest sounds of the moment. Contrast that with Quincy's 89 album Back On The Block and you'll hear the difference in sound quality. Then Michael started working with all the latest producers on Dangerous and you got crap like I Can't Let Her Get Away and She Drives Me Wild. Songs that Quincy would have kicked to the curb without a second thought. Also, the productions were never as layered again as Michael followed trends rather than leading them. That another thing, by the time Dangerous came around MJ had stopped being innovative, he was basically following trends. I mean what was so original about Dangerous It can't be New Jack Swing because Bobby Brown had worked with Teddy Riley earlier on his debut album and had taken it to the masses. Do you guys who are old enough remember, well before Usher and JT, peeps talked about Bobby Brown taking over MJ crown, because at the time he was on fire.
Dangerous was a decent album, but it is no where near as influential and innovative has Off The Wall or even Thriller for that matter. Of course not. Then again, I can't think of one artist who has managed to be cutting edge throughout his whole career. Prince couldn't do it. Stevie couldn't do it. I like to take music on its own terms. Fulfillingness' First Finale isn't the most innovative or influential album, but it's still damn near perfect. On the quality-control issue, I agree for the most part. However, my eyes were opened by the release of the Ultimate Collection a couple of years ago. Michael has cut some excellent songs from his albums for the past 25 years. "Whitney was purely and simply one of a kind." ~ Clive Davis | |
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AlexdeParis said: whoknows said: Dnagerous shows that Michael still had the potential to do great things. But with no one else in overall charge of the record, it suffers from inconsistency. There are many moments of pure genius. But there's also some half assed, boring, repetitive shit in there, particularly on the first half. No one really liked it when it came out, although I'm sure you and the other fanatics were crazy about it. Except (1) clearly a lot of people liked it and (2) I'm not a "fanatic." It's amusing how someone with a different opinion is labeled a "fanatic." Anyway, I love that album because I love New Jack Swing. It works for me and that's what matters. Ride on . I Can Get Her Get Away is my jam ! Just as much i dig lots of the 70's gems with his brothers & all the different composers/producers , Triumph with another not-mentioned jam , Get Down On The Floor , which had MJ's input too . And their live-set the following year to get an impression how the live-hype was , the pre-days of the later Monster-Tours from Victory to Bad . Shake Your Body Down 2 The Ground was still performed on the Bad-Tour . Blame It On The Boogie might have some corny harmonised vocals but the intro still bumps imo including the thumping unisolo-bassguitar/clavinetbass-synth combined with blazing horns . I personally hear Q's AND MJ's sound in OTW & Thriller , besides master-composers like Rod Temperton , Stevie Wonder , etc . I've been fed at home with Q-albums so i clearly recognised his trademark in the solo-work of MJ . Some sounds from OTW and Thriller can be heard on Q's album called The Dude or on projects from a few of his other students , The Brothers Johnson . But the most great & important thing ( like mentioned here earlier ) is that Q can get the best out of an artist , which is why so much studio-cats wanted to collaborate on his productions . Indeed , the musical "marriage" came to an end , and both artists went their way , whether one liked it or not , that's the way life goes sometimes . I dig much post-Q stuff , like the Jam&Lewis collabo , i mean DANG! MNPLS REPREZENT ! Yeah , too bad that his voice became lesser as a result of the immensive long tours . But i dig some of his creative worx fo sho ... and i'm not even a "fanatic" 
. . . [Edited 8/12/06 9:24am] | |
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AlexdeParis said:[quote] whoknows said: You said that you loved it, but it sounded "awful." I responded to that because it doesn't make any sense to me. As far as History goes, I don't think the beats are the problem. A few of the songs just don't work for me, but it's pretty good other than that. but rather than deal with the main point you've tried to change the focus onto small details. I notice you've made no attempt to refute the serious points made about post Quincy MJ elsewhere in this thread. Let's not ignore the broader point by focusing on pedantic issues.
Maybe I don't think those points need to be refuted? As usual, people like to argue the extremes. My favorite MJ albums are Thriller, Dangerous, and Off the Wall. Was he a better solo artist with Q? Yep. Did he still make a lot of great music without him? Yep. Quincy Jones deserves a lot of credit for making Michael the biggest star on the planet, but anyone who saw little Michael back in the J5 knew he was destined for superstardom. He managed to make superior (IMO) covers of songs by greats like Sly, Smokey, and Stevie (my all-time favorite). That would be utterly ridiculous even if he weren't a little kid. [Edited 8/11/06 5:08am] This is the third time now you've deliberately misquoted me. I NEVER SAID TDCAU sounded awful. I said the beats on History in general were awful with a few exceptions. I then added that I loved TDCAU. Do I think it could be improved sonically? Yes, but that doesn't stop me loving the song. Why you chose to manufacture an argument out of such an incidental comment anyway is beyond me. | |
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whoknows said: AlexdeParis said: Maybe I don't think those points need to be refuted? As usual, people like to argue the extremes. My favorite MJ albums are Thriller, Dangerous, and Off the Wall. Was he a better solo artist with Q? Yep. Did he still make a lot of great music without him? Yep. Quincy Jones deserves a lot of credit for making Michael the biggest star on the planet, but anyone who saw little Michael back in the J5 knew he was destined for superstardom. He managed to make superior (IMO) covers of songs by greats like Sly, Smokey, and Stevie (my all-time favorite). That would be utterly ridiculous even if he weren't a little kid. [Edited 8/11/06 5:08am] This is the third time now you've deliberately misquoted me. I NEVER SAID TDCAU sounded awful. I said the beats on History in general were awful with a few exceptions. I then added that I loved TDCAU. Do I think it could be improved sonically? Yes, but that doesn't stop me loving the song. Why you chose to manufacture an argument out of such an incidental comment anyway is beyond me. I never misquoted you. Here's your exact comment from reply #18:
Me too. Play those albums in public and hear how great they still sound. Play History in public and feel yourself cringe. Only Scream, Stranger and Come Together don't sound awful, although I love They Don't Care About Us. 1978-1983 was his best period vocally too.
The part in bold is as clear as can be. When I asked you about it, you said this in reply #30: Production wise yes. If you hear it played publicly around non MJ fans you'll hear what I mean.
Are you deliberately trying to confuse me?  [Edited 8/12/06 12:01pm] "Whitney was purely and simply one of a kind." ~ Clive Davis | |
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100MPH said: AlexdeParis said: Except (1) clearly a lot of people liked it and (2) I'm not a "fanatic." It's amusing how someone with a different opinion is labeled a "fanatic." Anyway, I love that album because I love New Jack Swing. It works for me and that's what matters. Ride on . I Can Get Her Get Away is my jam ! Just as much i dig lots of the 70's gems with his brothers & all the different composers/producers , Triumph with another not-mentioned jam , Get Down On The Floor , which had MJ's input too . And their live-set the following year to get an impression how the live-hype was , the pre-days of the later Monster-Tours from Victory to Bad . Shake Your Body Down 2 The Ground was still performed on the Bad-Tour . Blame It On The Boogie might have some corny harmonised vocals but the intro still bumps imo including the thumping unisolo-bassguitar/clavinetbass-synth combined with blazing horns . I personally hear Q's AND MJ's sound in OTW & Thriller , besides master-composers like Rod Temperton , Stevie Wonder , etc . I've been fed at home with Q-albums so i clearly recognised his trademark in the solo-work of MJ . Some sounds from OTW and Thriller can be heard on Q's album called The Dude or on projects from a few of his other students , The Brothers Johnson . But the most great & important thing ( like mentioned here earlier ) is that Q can get the best out of an artist , which is why so much studio-cats wanted to collaborate on his productions . Indeed , the musical "marriage" came to an end , and both artists went their way , whether one liked it or not , that's the way life goes sometimes . I dig much post-Q stuff , like the Jam&Lewis collabo , i mean DANG! MNPLS REPREZENT ! Yeah , too bad that his voice became lesser as a result of the immensive long tours . But i dig some of his creative worx fo sho ... and i'm not even a "fanatic"
. . . [Edited 8/12/06 9:24am] Not quite sure what your point is here. We all dig some of his post Q stuff. Some of it is great. Overall though it hasn't been nearly as consistent. As for Dangerous I can only speak from my own experience, and almost everyone I spoke to at the time was mystified by the first side of the album. Everyone preferred the second side and even had misgivings there, particularly with Gone Too Soon. | |
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AlexdeParis said:[quote] whoknows said: I never misquoted you. Here's your exact comment from reply #18:
Me too. Play those albums in public and hear how great they still sound. Play History in public and feel yourself cringe. Only Scream, Stranger and Come Together don't sound awful, although I love They Don't Care About Us. 1978-1983 was his best period vocally too.
The part in bold is as clear as can be. [Edited 8/12/06 11:55am] This is where you prove my point about what a pedantic boy you are. I suppose when someone is cold and they say "I'm freezing", you say to them "No, that's not true! It's at least 3 degrees out there! You can't freeze at that temperature" Get a life! | |
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whoknows said: AlexdeParis said: The part in bold is as clear as can be. [Edited 8/12/06 11:55am] This is where you prove my point about what a pedantic boy you are. I suppose when someone is cold and they say "I'm freezing", you say to them "No, that's not true! It's at least 3 degrees out there! You can't freeze at that temperature" Get a life! "Boy"? Again you resort to name-calling. This whole mess started because you (apparently) didn't express yourself clearly. The vast majority of English speakers would find that sentence confusing. "Whitney was purely and simply one of a kind." ~ Clive Davis | |
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whoknows said: Not quite sure what your point is here.
Just my 2 cents about stuff that i dig from him . | |
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AlexdeParis said: whoknows said: This is where you prove my point about what a pedantic boy you are. I suppose when someone is cold and they say "I'm freezing", you say to them "No, that's not true! It's at least 3 degrees out there! You can't freeze at that temperature" Get a life! "Boy"? Again you resort to name-calling. This whole mess started because you (apparently) didn't express yourself clearly. The vast majority of English speakers would find that sentence confusing. The vast majority would have taken it as it was intended and not got hung up on grammar. I don't spend a lot of time planning out my posts, but I think the general points are made. And yes you did misquote me. I never said TDCAU specifically sounded awful and yet you extracted specific words from my post to give the impression I did. In my book that's a misquote. | |
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whoknows said: AlexdeParis said: "Boy"? Again you resort to name-calling. This whole mess started because you (apparently) didn't express yourself clearly. The vast majority of English speakers would find that sentence confusing. The vast majority would have taken it as it was intended and not got hung up on grammar. I don't spend a lot of time planning out my posts, but I think the general points are made. And yes you did misquote me. I never said TDCAU specifically sounded awful and yet you extracted specific words from my post to give the impression I did. In my book that's a misquote. I'm not hung up on grammar. You specifically listed "Scream," "Stranger in Moscow," and "Come Together" as the only songs that don't sound awful. When I asked you about TDCAU, you said that it sounded awful "production-wise." Now you're saying you never said that? Whatever. I'm done with this.  "Whitney was purely and simply one of a kind." ~ Clive Davis | |
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Maybe I don't think those points need to be refuted? As usual, people like to argue the extremes. My favorite MJ albums are Thriller, Dangerous, and Off the Wall. Was he a better solo artist with Q? Yep. Did he still make a lot of great music without him? Yep. Quincy Jones deserves a lot of credit for making Michael the biggest star on the planet, but anyone who saw little Michael back in the J5 knew he was destined for superstardom. He managed to make superior (IMO) covers of songs by greats like Sly, Smokey, and Stevie (my all-time favorite). That would be utterly ridiculous even if he weren't a little kid.
Talking of cover versions by the Young Michael, I am blown away by his covers of; Ain't No sunshine when she's gone By Bill Whithers, You've got a Friendby Carole King, People make the World go round and La La La La Means I love you When you hear these songs you know with the exception of Marvin, Al Green, Curtis and Stevie, Michael should have been up there as one of the greatest Soul men, ever. But I guess popularity, mainstream and record sales got in the way. | |
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I happen to think that Dangerous is his best album. | |
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I also think Invincible gets overlooked. You Rock My World has to be his best work since the Thriller album. Break of Dawn, Heaven Can Wait and Butterflies, are beautiful, geogous R&B ballads. Whatever Happens is so totally awesome, one of MJ's finest works. Don't Walk Away may be sappy to some, but it's a really beautiful melody. The first 3 tracks all sound the same and a generic dance pop. But there are moments of gold in all of them. e.g. the pre-chorus vocals on Unbreakable and the stunning middle 8 on Heartbreaker. The rest of the songs, Privacy, Threatened, Speechless, Lost Children, are below par and aren't really worthy of being on a Michael Jackson album. But as for the other songs I mentioned, it isn't all 100% golden material, but it sure aint as bad as people make it out to be. I actually think that if he cut down the tracklist and re-worked some of the slightly dodgy songs, Invincible could have been the best Michael Jackson album since Thriller. | |
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http://www.youtube.com/wa...3%2070%27s
This is a medley by the J5, where Michael sings "Killing me Softly", Jermaine sings "BY the Time she get's to Pheonix" whilst Jackie sings a dire version of "Danny Boy", whilst Tito is on guitar. Randy Jackson and Bill Crosby introduces them. Now, what I am getting at the last time Michael evoked such "soul" was with Quincy on "Lady in My Life", it's like there was a time that kind of soulfulness came so naturally to him when he was 14, whereas now he seems to struggle to sound that soulful and when he does it sounds contrieved. Q seem to be the only person who could bring it out of him naturally as an adult. Is it possible to loose such soulfulness, never to be seen again. | |
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whatsgoingon said: Maybe I don't think those points need to be refuted? As usual, people like to argue the extremes. My favorite MJ albums are Thriller, Dangerous, and Off the Wall. Was he a better solo artist with Q? Yep. Did he still make a lot of great music without him? Yep. Quincy Jones deserves a lot of credit for making Michael the biggest star on the planet, but anyone who saw little Michael back in the J5 knew he was destined for superstardom. He managed to make superior (IMO) covers of songs by greats like Sly, Smokey, and Stevie (my all-time favorite). That would be utterly ridiculous even if he weren't a little kid.
Talking of cover versions by the Young Michael, I am blown away by his covers of; Ain't No sunshine when she's gone By Bill Whithers, You've got a Friendby Carole King, People make the World go round and La La La La Means I love you When you hear these songs you know with the exception of Marvin, Al Green, Curtis and Stevie, Michael should have been up there as one of the greatest Soul men, ever. But I guess popularity, mainstream and record sales got in the way. Those songs are all from his first 3 years at Motown. One of his two golden periods. His voice didn't stay like that. Also, he didn't write any of those songs which brings up an important issue that never gets mentioned. The melodies Michael writes himself in general tend to be more rhythmic than melodic. Thriller's a good example. Michael wrote the best songs on that album, but the songs that showcase his voice the best are the ones written by others. Baby Be Mine for instance is not one of the best songs, but that melody really gives his voice a chance to stretch out. Whether he could carry that song now is another issue. | |
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whatsgoingon said: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHBCd-A78yI&search=Interview%20Joe%20Jackson%20Michael%20The%20Jacksons%20Five%201973%2070%27s
This is a medley by the J5, where Michael sings "Killing me Softly", Jermaine sings "BY the Time she get's to Pheonix" whilst Jackie sings a dire version of "Danny Boy", whilst Tito is on guitar. Randy Jackson and Bill Crosby introduces them. Now, what I am getting at the last time Michael evoked such "soul" was with Quincy on "Lady in My Life", it's like there was a time that kind of soulfulness came so naturally to him when he was 14, whereas now he seems to struggle to sound that soulful and when he does it sounds contrieved. Q seem to be the only person who could bring it out of him naturally as an adult. Is it possible to loose such soulfulness, never to be seen again. Anyone that thinks Michael's still got "it" should be forced to watch that clip. It's Michael's intensity that is so frightening. I don't know if he actually lost his soul. I think two things happened. One was, his voice just simply packed up. A physical thing. The other issue is that all the plastic surgery he's had has actually limited the mobility in his face. Also he often seems to be hiding his face in performance slightly. He doesn't seem able to let go anymore. Can you imagine him sitting on a stool to sing now? He'd be too worried about the cameras. He wouldn't allow himself to just get lost in the song. Also it's hard to do that when you're miming anyway. | |
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whoknows said:[quote] whatsgoingon said: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHBCd-A78yI&search=Interview%20Joe%20Jackson%20Michael%20The%20Jacksons%20Five%201973%2070%27s
This is a medley by the J5, where Michael sings "Killing me Softly", Jermaine sings "BY the Time she get's to Pheonix" whilst Jackie sings a dire version of "Danny Boy", whilst Tito is on guitar. Randy Jackson and Bill Crosby introduces them. Now, what I am getting at the last time Michael evoked such "soul" was with Quincy on "Lady in My Life", it's like there was a time that kind of soulfulness came so naturally to him when he was 14, whereas now he seems to struggle to sound that soulful and when he does it sounds contrieved. Q seem to be the only person who could bring it out of him naturally as an adult. Is it possible to loose such soulfulness, never to be seen again. Anyone that thinks Michael's still got "it" should be forced to watch that clip. It's Michael's intensity that is so frightening. I don't know if he actually lost his soul. I think two things happened. One was, his voice just simply packed up. A physical thing. The other issue is that all the plastic surgery he's had has actually limited the mobility in his face. Also he often seems to be hiding his face in performance slightly. He doesn't seem able to let go anymore. Can you imagine him sitting on a stool to sing now? He'd be too worried about the cameras. He wouldn't allow himself to just get lost in the song. Also it's hard to do that when you're miming anyway.[/quote]
I guess that makes sense, probably that's why he's more recent concerts it is more about the dancing rather than the singing. He probably hasn't got it vocally anymore. But I have never seen any great "soul" artist lose it like that. I mean, Stevie and Aretha may have done a lot of worthless, bland stuff back in their day but the "Soul" is still there, with Michael it's like it's completely disappeared. [Edited 8/14/06 10:49am] | |
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whatsgoingon said:[quote] whoknows said: Anyone that thinks Michael's still got "it" should be forced to watch that clip. It's Michael's intensity that is so frightening. I don't know if he actually lost his soul. I think two things happened. One was, his voice just simply packed up. A physical thing. The other issue is that all the plastic surgery he's had has actually limited the mobility in his face. Also he often seems to be hiding his face in performance slightly. He doesn't seem able to let go anymore. Can you imagine him sitting on a stool to sing now? He'd be too worried about the cameras. He wouldn't allow himself to just get lost in the song. Also it's hard to do that when you're miming anyway.[/quote]
I guess that makes sense, probably that's why he's more recent concerts it is more about the dancing rather than the singing. He probably hasn't got it vocally anymore. But I have never seen any great "soul" artist lose it like that. I mean, Stevie and Aretha may have done a lot of worthless, bland stuff back in their day but the "Soul" is still there, with Michael it's like it's completely disappeared. [Edited 8/14/06 10:49am] Absolutely. No other artist has lost their voice as badly as Michael. Absolutely no one. If you really want to hear just how bad it is, see if you can find a copy of him singing I'll Be There live on the History Tour. It wasn't just bad, it was unlistenable. | |
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whatsgoingon said: whoknows said: Me too. Play those albums in public and hear how great they still sound. Play History in public and feel yourself cringe. Only Scream, Stranger and Come Together don't sound awful, although I love They Don't Care About Us. 1978-1983 was his best period vocally too. Well, in general you wouldn't play most of the stuff from History in a club or party because they are not exactly club/party type of songs. Now, songs from Truimph and Destiny are still quite popular in the clubs, because they have that kind of "feel" about them. I too believe MJ best period was between 78 and 83. It was defientely his most productive period, he was averaging an album a year and he was on fire... I agree that the songs on HIStory are not club/party songs because they were never meant to be. Remember, HIStory was written during Michael's most trying time-the FIRST fake allegations. HIStory is Michael's most personal album to date and his most brilliant,IMO.I have never heard anyone express their personal feelings-anger(Scream,They DOn't Care About Us, This Time Around),despair(Stranger In Moscow), greed and jealousy(Money,2 Bad),conspiracy(DS),love(You Are Not Alone),resignation(Smile). The songs on vol.2 of HIStory are nothing short of masterpieces and all of them were written by Michael except 2. Critics and some fans couldn't handle how personal Michael's lyrics were. They were full of anger because he had been falsely accused of something that he didn't do.HIStory ranks up there as one of his best albums ever. | |
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whatsgoingon said: I find MJ voice in latter years ignoring, it's almost like his straining his voice. The fact that he rarely sings live at his concerts anymore tells me his voice isn't what it use to be. He has definetly lost the "soulfulness" in his voice..
[Edited 8/9/06 13:26pm] I find Michael at his most soulful in recent songs like "Butterflies",YRMW, "Heaven Can Wait", "Break of Dawn","Whatever Happens","The Way That You Love Me"and "Fall Again". IMO, he has lost none of his soulfulness.In fact, the aforementioned songs have a type of mature soulfulness that I hadn't heard in songs from the past. However, classics like "Lady In My Life", "Carousel", "Someone Put Your Hand Out", "Liberian Girl" still cause goosebumps. There is no one who can sing ballads like Michael. | |
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whatsgoingon said: Why do MJ fans have a problem with Quincey Jones? It's almost like they are "Jealous" of the success that Michael and Quincey shared.
You notice how the newer fans like to say that "Dangerous" is Michael best album and try to make out Quincy had nothing to do with Michael's greatest success. As some have stated, fans just don't like the notion that Quincy is the one responsible for Michael's success. Michael was a superstar before Quincy came along. Quincy played a huge role in refining Michael's raw talent. With or without Quincy, Michael would be the mega-star/legend that he is today. I loved TOff The Wall,Thriller and Bad;however, I listen to Dangerous, HIStory and Invincible much more that I listen to his earlier solo albums. | |
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whatsgoingon said: Why do MJ fans have a problem with Quincey Jones? It's almost like they are "Jealous" of the success that Michael and Quincey shared.
You notice how the newer fans like to say that "Dangerous" is Michael best album and try to make out Quincy had nothing to do with Michael's greatest success. | |
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DarlingDiana said: I also think Invincible gets overlooked. You Rock My World has to be his best work since the Thriller album. Break of Dawn, Heaven Can Wait and Butterflies, are beautiful, geogous R&B ballads. Whatever Happens is so totally awesome, one of MJ's finest works. Don't Walk Away may be sappy to some, but it's a really beautiful melody. The first 3 tracks all sound the same and a generic dance pop. But there are moments of gold in all of them. e.g. the pre-chorus vocals on Unbreakable and the stunning middle 8 on Heartbreaker. The rest of the songs, Privacy, Threatened, Speechless, Lost Children, are below par and aren't really worthy of being on a Michael Jackson album. But as for the other songs I mentioned, it isn't all 100% golden material, but it sure aint as bad as people make it out to be. I actually think that if he cut down the tracklist and re-worked some of the slightly dodgy songs, Invincible could have been the best Michael Jackson album since Thriller.
I agree with what you said about Invincible. Invincible gets overlooked because of the contrived negativity toward it. That album contained Michael's most mature and soulful songs to date. It is also the first Michael album that R&B radio and audiences LOVED since Thriller. I did not hear a single negative word from DJ's when they played "Butterflies","Break of Dawn" and "Heaven Can Wait." Just those three songs alone, brought it thousands of new R&B fans or R&B fans who had been put off by previous albums. I met people who had ever bought MJ albums who bought Invincible just for jams.I hope that Michael remembers that that it was R&B radio who supported him during the Invincible era and didn't fall for the bullshit of the critics and bias of pop radio. | |
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DarlingDiana said: I also think Invincible gets overlooked. You Rock My World has to be his best work since the Thriller album. Break of Dawn, Heaven Can Wait and Butterflies, are beautiful, geogous R&B ballads. Whatever Happens is so totally awesome, one of MJ's finest works. Don't Walk Away may be sappy to some, but it's a really beautiful melody. The first 3 tracks all sound the same and a generic dance pop. But there are moments of gold in all of them. e.g. the pre-chorus vocals on Unbreakable and the stunning middle 8 on Heartbreaker. The rest of the songs, Privacy, Threatened, Speechless, Lost Children, are below par and aren't really worthy of being on a Michael Jackson album. But as for the other songs I mentioned, it isn't all 100% golden material, but it sure aint as bad as people make it out to be. I actually think that if he cut down the tracklist and re-worked some of the slightly dodgy songs, Invincible could have been the best Michael Jackson album since Thriller. | |
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skyecute said: DarlingDiana said: I also think Invincible gets overlooked. You Rock My World has to be his best work since the Thriller album. Break of Dawn, Heaven Can Wait and Butterflies, are beautiful, geogous R&B ballads. Whatever Happens is so totally awesome, one of MJ's finest works. Don't Walk Away may be sappy to some, but it's a really beautiful melody. The first 3 tracks all sound the same and a generic dance pop. But there are moments of gold in all of them. e.g. the pre-chorus vocals on Unbreakable and the stunning middle 8 on Heartbreaker. The rest of the songs, Privacy, Threatened, Speechless, Lost Children, are below par and aren't really worthy of being on a Michael Jackson album. But as for the other songs I mentioned, it isn't all 100% golden material, but it sure aint as bad as people make it out to be. I actually think that if he cut down the tracklist and re-worked some of the slightly dodgy songs, Invincible could have been the best Michael Jackson album since Thriller.
I agree with what you said about Invincible. Invincible gets overlooked because of the contrived negativity toward it. That album contained Michael's most mature and soulful songs to date. It is also the first Michael album that R&B radio and audiences LOVED since Thriller. I did not hear a single negative word from DJ's when they played "Butterflies","Break of Dawn" and "Heaven Can Wait." Just those three songs alone, brought it thousands of new R&B fans or R&B fans who had been put off by previous albums. I met people who had ever bought MJ albums who bought Invincible just for jams.I hope that Michael remembers that that it was R&B radio who supported him during the Invincible era and didn't fall for the bullshit of the critics and bias of pop radio. I don't know about that one...Invincible was just full of holes...It's the out-of-date production that boggs it down...But "Butterflies" is a damn good song... | |
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skyecute said: whatsgoingon said: I find MJ voice in latter years ignoring, it's almost like his straining his voice. The fact that he rarely sings live at his concerts anymore tells me his voice isn't what it use to be. He has definetly lost the "soulfulness" in his voice..
[Edited 8/9/06 13:26pm] I find Michael at his most soulful in recent songs like "Butterflies",YRMW, "Heaven Can Wait", "Break of Dawn","Whatever Happens","The Way That You Love Me"and "Fall Again". IMO, he has lost none of his soulfulness.In fact, the aforementioned songs have a type of mature soulfulness that I hadn't heard in songs from the past. However, classics like "Lady In My Life", "Carousel", "Someone Put Your Hand Out", "Liberian Girl" still cause goosebumps. There is no one who can sing ballads like Michael. Imo MJ has definetly lost a lot of his soulfulness, both on record and live. The fact that he rarely sings live anymore tells me his lost something. Why would someone who was once a great, live singer(See the clip of Michael singing "Killing me Softly" or the J5 in concert) stop singing live almost altogether. I mean he even mimes his ballads in concert now. Something obviously amiss.. | |
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I'm as big of an MJ fan as I am a Prince fan. I can honestly say Dangerous was my favorite cd because it was different from his previous cds. However I believe if it was not 4 his previous work with Quincy he wold never had the experience 2 make an album of that quality.
I do not think he lost his soulfulness but he did lose some singing skills from the vast amount of surgeries. His newer songs like Butterflies and You Rock My World sound just as soulful as his earlier work. Now my fingers hurt from typing so much. | |
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