Is everything we listen to today, meaning contemporary music, ultimately rooted in Blues?

Blues led to RnB, led to Soul/Funk, led to Disco, Hip Hop... Or are there any other genres that were an early influence besides Blues?

So, is any music today basically black music?

Good question. I've always wondered which came first, country or blues?

calldapplwondery83 said:

You left out two very important genres in your time line - jazz and gospel.

And that poses another question: Which came first, jazz or blues?

Read some history on the evolution of music on the internet and let me know your thoughts! Musicologists and historians have varying opinions on the subject.

My guess would probably be blues. Didn't it go back to slavery days? That's why I wonder which came from which...country or blues. I haven't read up on it but I've just observed the music in movies such as "Roots". For example "Fiddler" was playing for the master but what I was hearing was country. I'm wondering if blues later came from that or was Fiddler just playing his own type of music for the master. I hear similarities in blues and country to this day.

http://www.funart.de/Data/jazzhis.htm

cubic61052 said:

I thought of Gospel as some sort of Blues, but you're right, I didn't know where to put jazz.

Dancelot said:

Thanks for this, Dancelot! I wonder though, "Funk ca. 1950-1955"? I thought Funk as a genre pretty much started with JB's "Papa's got a brand new bag" and that would be from 1965.

Ah, I see, sorry. "Funk" as a direction in Jazz. Didn't look at it properly.

For what it's worth, wikipedia.de has a Jazz history that says that Jazz is rooted in Blues, worksongs and spirituals of afroamerican slave workers, combined with folk music from European immigrants.

calldapplwondery83 said:

depends on the point of view, some see Blues as an early form of Jazz, so in a way both sides could be right aber sollen sich doch die Experten ihre schlauen Koepfe zerbrechen, hehe... however, I for my part kinda agree with your first post and the suggestion, that contemporary music in fact IS primarily rooted in Black Music. that does does not rule out occasional European influences along the way.

on a side note (and someone please correct me if I'm wrong) but didn't Punk claim to be the first contemporary music form NOT to be rooted in Blues?

calldapplwondery83 said:

The tree is a bit misleading. The funk referenced is the soul-jazz kind of funk. The "funk" alluded to is a gospel feel in harmonies and melodies were simplified than in the bop era. This style was typical of bands with a 2-3 horn frontline like the Jazz Messengers, Lee Morgan, piano trios like Bobby Timmons and Sonny clark, organ trios of Dr. Lonnie Smith, Shirley Scott and Grant Green's guitar funk and was featured more in the urban Northeast in the early to late 50s. Technically, it should be shown as a branch from hard bop, concurrent with cool jazz, because jazz diverged into regional trends at this time. Cool jazz was more prevalent out on the West coast or in the "vanilla suburbs". In any case, the tree hasn't been updated since the 80s.










http://image.allmusic.com...4.jpg[img]

vainandy said:

Nothing good came from country music.....

What about New Wave/Electronica?

Dancelot said:

If you accept the instrumental solo as the most profound expression of jazz, then the first soloist of notoriety to emerge is Louis Armstrong in 1920 with the Hot Five ensemble.



WC Handy, self-proclaimed "Father of the Blues", collected a number of blues pastiches in sheet music form around 1926. He later recorded a wide variety of tunes.




FWIW: This is only what's recorded in the "modern era". There's a rich field of blues and jazz that predates the discovery of the phonograph and recording. techniques.

Graycap23 said:

Obvioulsy you're smirking to yourself in self-satisfaction but country had a tremendous impact on rock & roll (think rockabilly - hardly my most enjoyable musical form, but it does exist) and many forms of country blues are indistinguishable from country. My mother's family is out of South Carolina on the Atlantic Coast and the influences of the Piedmont region are heavily influenced by hillbilly music. I see country and blues emerging at a similar point in time, but when black and white rural communities were separated by segregation, rather than geography, the music tended to merge.

I am awaiting tA's thoughts.....

Dancelot said:

That's interesting. Anybody got an idea on that?

Dancelot said:

That definitely was the claim of punk proponents, but it really went back to rudimentary 3 chord changes, typically played louder and faster with a whole lot of attitude and safety-pins.

Ellie said:

To me, New Wave sounds like r&b played by music students with ADD ("My Sharona") is and I trace electronica back to 60s psychedelica, 70s jazz fusion and dancehall/dub.

"Old World" non-European strains of world music aren't blues based. I'm specifically talking about Indian raga. Though the most accessible forms (to my ears) are mixed in with trance (a form of electronica).


Folk forms in Peru, Cuba and Brazil diverge from a blues-base and rely more on the clave. Yet and still that's a strain that, like the blues, came with the importation of slaves from Africa. Again, I'm oriented to their music when it's merged with an American form like jazz, rock or funk.

PFunkjazz said:

Punk bands were very proud of their simplistic playing style, heavy on the rhythm guitar, perhaps influenced by the Who and the Kinks.
I don't think the Clash ever claimed that.Actually The Clash were greatly influenced by Des Dekker and the Aces.
Actually even some of the first punks were influenced by the Jamaican Rude Boys.
[Edited 8/7/06 10:08am]

The Clash opened for BB King on their first US tour. Joe Strummer was in the 101ers and called their music Pub Rock but then saw the Sex Pistols and knew Pub Rock was going out..decided to go with the punk instead of the blues, but he was very influenced by the blues right up to his death.

This is basically my very rough understanding of the timeline of American music:

Everything begins with African-American spirituals.

From there we get the Blues and Ragtime (there's overlap here).

Blues is combined with european folk music to get country.

Blues and Ragtime are fused to form Jazz.

Rock and Roll is a sort of fusion of everything above...

calldapplwondery83 said:

I think the foundation of american music is pretty much black music.

coolcat said:

All of the GOOD stuff is.

My guess is folk music & spirituals led to most popular forms of the 20th century. Blues led to jazz, but jazz incorporated some of the harmonic complexity of classical.

Graycap23 said:

Gray, u crazy as hell, which is a good thang! And uh, I agree withcha! Country DEFINATELY came from the blues. You've heard the ole' saying "Country ain't nothing but the white man's blues". Also, to some extent, if u combine African (music from Africa) music with classical, you get a hybrid of jazz.

blackguitaristz said:

Jazz is nothing but a hybrid, which all great forms of music is a hybrid. Blues came from gospel. The "purest" forms of music would definately be gospel and classical. Although those were a hybrid to something as well.

blackguitaristz said:

I think the scales & chords used in blues owe some debt to classical music, even though it doesn't sound anything like it. Most classical music is rooted in I IV & V chords, too.

blackguitaristz said:

oops edit
[Edited 8/7/06 11:36am]