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R&B Music and the Black Church Back in the day, black singers got their start in the church. I don't see that happening anymore, at least not from the ones with record deals. Could that be another factor in the decline of r&b music? | |
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the decline of real music happened when people who dont know shit about music ran the industry.as for church? im a firm believer that all music derived from Gospel and all a gift from God. but these days people forget that one principle and forget where they came from. i grew up in the days where an artist and the labels cared about the music. the money was secondary, we've lost so many teachers that now its all run amuck with music with no soul.
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...
That probably is another factor, though there are some exceptions ( recent R&B artrists Anthony Hamilton, Bilal, Donnie, Frank McComb and Rashaan Patterson are some examples that come to mind; they all got their start singing and or playing in church)... But I agree, that's always been one of common denominators -- from Ray Charles and Sam Cooke, to Marvin Gaye and Curtis Mayfield, from Parliament / Funkadelic, to Earth Wind and Fire and the Isleys, down to Prince, through to artists like Terence Trent D'arby/Sananda and D'angelo, that church influence has always been a major undercurrent in the classic R&B sound...and other than the ones I mentioned, and a handful of others , it really is a sound that's mostly missing in this current state of decline... ... [Edited 8/1/06 9:09am] " I've got six things on my mind --you're no longer one of them." - Paddy McAloon, Prefab Sprout | |
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Finess said: the decline of real music happened when people who dont know shit about music ran the industry.as for church? im a firm believer that all music derived from Gospel and all a gift from God. but these days people forget that one principle and forget where they came from. i grew up in the days where an artist and the labels cared about the music. the money was secondary, we've lost so many teachers that now its all run amuck with music with no soul.
can i get a witness? Amen! | |
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paligap said: ...
That probably is another factor, though there are some exceptions ( recent R&B artrists Anthony Hamilton, Donnie and Frank McComb are three examples that come to mind; they got their start singing and or playing in church)... But I agree, that's always been one of common denominators -- from Ray Charles and Sam Cooke, to Marvin Gaye and Curtis Mayfield, from Parliament / Funkadelic, to Earth Wind and Fire and the Isleys, down to Prince, through to artists like Terence Trent D'arby/Sananda and D'angelo, that church influence has always been a major undercurrent in the classic R&B sound...and other than the three I mentioned, along with a handful of others , it really is a sound that's missing in this current state of decline... ... [Edited 8/1/06 9:05am] Exactly. When I look at the artist that are topping the charts today, none of them have a church background, which is why they lack soul. Although Beyonce can sing, I don't hear soulfulness in her voice. | |
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PurpleCharm said: paligap said: ...
That probably is another factor, though there are some exceptions ( recent R&B artrists Anthony Hamilton, Donnie and Frank McComb are three examples that come to mind; they got their start singing and or playing in church)... But I agree, that's always been one of common denominators -- from Ray Charles and Sam Cooke, to Marvin Gaye and Curtis Mayfield, from Parliament / Funkadelic, to Earth Wind and Fire and the Isleys, down to Prince, through to artists like Terence Trent D'arby/Sananda and D'angelo, that church influence has always been a major undercurrent in the classic R&B sound...and other than the three I mentioned, along with a handful of others, it really is a sound that's missing in this current state of decline... ... [Edited 8/1/06 9:05am] Exactly. When I look at the artist that are topping the charts today, none of them have a church background, which is why they lack soul. Although Beyonce can sing, I don't hear soulfulness in her voice. That's true, none of those recent artists I mentioned are having any huge chart sucsess, even though you can hear that soulful gospel influence in them. Sadly, the people with a real feel for soul are not going to be heard by the greater audiences now. Actually, it almost seems that the less talented a person is, the greater chance they have of becoming big nowdays... Too many singers these days don't seem to understand an idea like tension and release...they've been brought up thinking that singing is a bunch of acrobatic vocal tricks and histrionics --they havent learned any kind of subtle nuances, slow buildup of emotion...they haven't learned how to really sing a song... ... [Edited 8/2/06 14:53pm] " I've got six things on my mind --you're no longer one of them." - Paddy McAloon, Prefab Sprout | |
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As I stated in another thread about the dearth of black bands, I don't see too many singers but there are a LOT of black r&b musicians (myself included) funkin' it up in church. In the past few years, I haven't come across any singers who may have that "something". Come to think of it, none at all... My author page: https://www.amazon.com/au...eretttruth | |
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PurpleCharm said: paligap said: ...
That probably is another factor, though there are some exceptions ( recent R&B artrists Anthony Hamilton, Donnie and Frank McComb are three examples that come to mind; they got their start singing and or playing in church)... But I agree, that's always been one of common denominators -- from Ray Charles and Sam Cooke, to Marvin Gaye and Curtis Mayfield, from Parliament / Funkadelic, to Earth Wind and Fire and the Isleys, down to Prince, through to artists like Terence Trent D'arby/Sananda and D'angelo, that church influence has always been a major undercurrent in the classic R&B sound...and other than the three I mentioned, along with a handful of others , it really is a sound that's missing in this current state of decline... ... [Edited 8/1/06 9:05am] Exactly. When I look at the artist that are topping the charts today, none of them have a church background, which is why they lack soul. Although Beyonce can sing, I don't hear soulfulness in her voice. Does eating at Churches Chicken count? | |
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PurpleCharm said: paligap said: ...
That probably is another factor, though there are some exceptions ( recent R&B artrists Anthony Hamilton, Donnie and Frank McComb are three examples that come to mind; they got their start singing and or playing in church)... But I agree, that's always been one of common denominators -- from Ray Charles and Sam Cooke, to Marvin Gaye and Curtis Mayfield, from Parliament / Funkadelic, to Earth Wind and Fire and the Isleys, down to Prince, through to artists like Terence Trent D'arby/Sananda and D'angelo, that church influence has always been a major undercurrent in the classic R&B sound...and other than the three I mentioned, along with a handful of others , it really is a sound that's missing in this current state of decline... ... [Edited 8/1/06 9:05am] Exactly. When I look at the artist that are topping the charts today, none of them have a church background, which is why they lack soul. Although Beyonce can sing, I don't hear soulfulness in her voice. You know that really is interesting to point out: with all of the big broo-ha-ha Beyonce gets for her pop success...the only song I've ever liked from her (and keep in my i-tunes library) is her accapella version of Swing Low, Sweet Chariot with choir...it's strange, it's almost as if placing herself in the middle of an old time spiritual was the only way to get the soulfulness out. She does a fine job on it too. I could only imagine how much her voice would have evolved if she grew up musically in a church environment---I like listening to her pop stuff on a superficial, uninvolved level. But if she had a good dose of "church" up in her, I bet I would take notice and there would be hairs standing on the back of my neck as soon as she opened her mouth  | |
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paligap said: Too many singers these days don't seem to understand an idea like tension and release...they've been brought up thinking that singing is a bunch of acrobatic vocal tricks and histrionics --they havent learned any kind of subtle nuances, slow buildup of emotion...they haven't lerned how to really sing a song...
... Dead on the money. Just listening to the 40-43 year old Arista-era Aretha Franklin approach tunes like Jump To It and Who's Zoomin' Who? The way she effortlessly slithers her way through the adlibs is simply priceless. So much SOUL yet simultaneously so relaxed she sounds as if she could've cut those tracks while ironing clothes. Reminds me of the way Ali adjusted his style after he was robbed of boxing in his prime. The Greatest then continued to whup that a$$. tA  Tribal Disorder
http://www.soundclick.com...dID=182431 "Ya see, we're not interested in what you know...but what you are willing to learn. C'mon y'all." | |
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This is the first woman I ever heard sing on a regular basis...
...So i'm extremely biased in this direction. tA Tribal Disorder
http://www.soundclick.com...dID=182431 "Ya see, we're not interested in what you know...but what you are willing to learn. C'mon y'all." | |
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theAudience said: This is the first woman I ever heard sing on a regular basis...
...So i'm extremely biased in this direction. tA Tribal Disorder
http://www.soundclick.com...dID=182431 I'm with you on that. Add Shirley Caesar to the list, too. Her voice/delivery gives me chills. My author page: https://www.amazon.com/au...eretttruth | |
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Jodeci started out in the church...  I will forever love and miss you...my sweet Prince. | |
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PurpleCharm said: Back in the day, black singers got their start in the church. I don't see that happening anymore, at least not from the ones with record deals. Could that be another factor in the decline of r&b music?
Not necessarily so. Billie Holiday and Chaka Khan didn't get brought up in no black church,,,and I don't need to rant about their musical status  | |
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Ottensen said: PurpleCharm said: Exactly. When I look at the artist that are topping the charts today, none of them have a church background, which is why they lack soul. Although Beyonce can sing, I don't hear soulfulness in her voice. You know that really is interesting to point out: with all of the big broo-ha-ha Beyonce gets for her pop success...the only song I've ever liked from her (and keep in my i-tunes library) is her accapella version of Swing Low, Sweet Chariot with choir...it's strange, it's almost as if placing herself in the middle of an old time spiritual was the only way to get the soulfulness out. She does a fine job on it too. I could only imagine how much her voice would have evolved if she grew up musically in a church environment---I like listening to her pop stuff on a superficial, uninvolved level. But if she had a good dose of "church" up in her, I bet I would take notice and there would be hairs standing on the back of my neck as soon as she opened her mouth Sorry to break it to you, Beyonce grew up singing in the church. "What kind of fuck ending is that?" | |
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Harlepolis said: PurpleCharm said: Back in the day, black singers got their start in the church. I don't see that happening anymore, at least not from the ones with record deals. Could that be another factor in the decline of r&b music?
Not necessarily so. Billie Holiday and Chaka Khan didn't get brought up in no black church,,,and I don't need to rant about their musical status You don't have to be a rock scientist to know that there are always exceptions.  [Edited 8/2/06 12:52pm] | |
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ElCapitan said: Ottensen said: You know that really is interesting to point out: with all of the big broo-ha-ha Beyonce gets for her pop success...the only song I've ever liked from her (and keep in my i-tunes library) is her accapella version of Swing Low, Sweet Chariot with choir...it's strange, it's almost as if placing herself in the middle of an old time spiritual was the only way to get the soulfulness out. She does a fine job on it too. I could only imagine how much her voice would have evolved if she grew up musically in a church environment---I like listening to her pop stuff on a superficial, uninvolved level. But if she had a good dose of "church" up in her, I bet I would take notice and there would be hairs standing on the back of my neck as soon as she opened her mouth Sorry to break it to you, Beyonce grew up singing in the church. Really? In all the specials that I've seen about her, I don't recall hearing that she sung in the choir when she was growing up. | |
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PurpleCharm said: ElCapitan said: Sorry to break it to you, Beyonce grew up singing in the church. Really? In all the specials that I've seen about her, I don't recall hearing that she sung in the choir when she was growing up. Trust me I'm from Houston, everybody and their mother "claims" to have attended church and seen her (and Kelly) in action. Though I think they were only members of the choir for a few years before forming thier first group. "What kind of fuck ending is that?" | |
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PurpleCharm said: Harlepolis said: Not necessarily so. Billie Holiday and Chaka Khan didn't get brought up in no black church,,,and I don't need to rant about their musical status You don't have to be a rock scientist to know that there are always exceptions.
[Edited 8/2/06 12:52pm] LOL whateva peanuts butter your jelly, chump! I'm responding to your thread about what I personaly know. You can either dismiss it or not but don't give me attitude just coz I'm not co-signing your shit  | |
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The gospel industry has blown up, in recent decades though (thanks to Edwin Hawkins, the Winans family, Commissioned/Fred Hammond and others -- who put contemporary spins and updated the sound).
With stellar musicianship and a growing ability to promote artists, gospel is seeing less of a crossover exodus because it's better able to reward its stars today than it was in previous decades. But, not always. I mean, if you check the direction Yolanda Adams has been going in recent years, I fully expect her to make an Amy Grant pop move within the next few releases. But, she's built up credibility and an audience in gospel. I think gospel and the church will continue to generate sacred and secular music artists. It's a no-brainer for getting people used to performing in front of other people and learning a musical craft. | |
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Harlepolis said: PurpleCharm said: You don't have to be a rock scientist to know that there are always exceptions.
[Edited 8/2/06 12:52pm] LOL whateva peanuts butter your jelly, chump! I'm responding to your thread about what I personaly know. You can either dismiss it or not but don't give me attitude just coz I'm not co-signing your shit No one is dismissing your claims, but I am dismissing your salty attitude. 
[Edited 8/2/06 13:13pm] [Edited 8/2/06 13:23pm] | |
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ThreadBare said: The gospel industry has blown up, in recent decades though (thanks to Edwin Hawkins, the Winans family, Commissioned/Fred Hammond and others -- who put contemporary spins and updated the sound).
With stellar musicianship and a growing ability to promote artists, gospel is seeing less of a crossover exodus because it's better able to reward its stars today than it was in previous decades. But, not always. I mean, if you check the direction Yolanda Adams has been going in recent years, I fully expect her to make an Amy Grant pop move within the next few releases. But, she's built up credibility and an audience in gospel. I think gospel and the church will continue to generate sacred and secular music artists. It's a no-brainer for getting people used to performing in front of other people and learning a musical craft. Yolanda's what in her mid-40s now? Yeah she's great, but that Amy Grant pop move should have happened about 20 years ago. It'd be more like an Urban adult contemporary move at this point. "What kind of fuck ending is that?" | |
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ElCapitan said: ThreadBare said: The gospel industry has blown up, in recent decades though (thanks to Edwin Hawkins, the Winans family, Commissioned/Fred Hammond and others -- who put contemporary spins and updated the sound).
With stellar musicianship and a growing ability to promote artists, gospel is seeing less of a crossover exodus because it's better able to reward its stars today than it was in previous decades. But, not always. I mean, if you check the direction Yolanda Adams has been going in recent years, I fully expect her to make an Amy Grant pop move within the next few releases. But, she's built up credibility and an audience in gospel. I think gospel and the church will continue to generate sacred and secular music artists. It's a no-brainer for getting people used to performing in front of other people and learning a musical craft. Yolanda's what in her mid-40s now? Yeah she's great, but that Amy Grant pop move should have happened about 20 years ago. It'd be more like an Urban adult contemporary move at this point. Yeah, that's what I meant, not pop.  Thanks. She was something on the BET Awards, though. I ain't mad at her. | |
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PurpleCharm said: Harlepolis said: LOL whateva peanuts butter your jelly, chump! I'm responding to your thread about what I personaly know. You can either dismiss it or not but don't give me attitude just coz I'm not co-signing your shit No one is dismissing your claims, but I am dismissing your salty attitude, which is always front and center.
[Edited 8/2/06 13:13pm] Chile, do whateva you please! I'm considered a VIEW HOST comparing to these hard-mouthed motherfuckers lol but YOU think I got a salty attitude. Talking about the wrong address  | |
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ThreadBare said: The gospel industry has blown up, in recent decades though (thanks to Edwin Hawkins, the Winans family, Commissioned/Fred Hammond and others -- who put contemporary spins and updated the sound).
With stellar musicianship and a growing ability to promote artists, gospel is seeing less of a crossover exodus because it's better able to reward its stars today than it was in previous decades. But, not always. I mean, if you check the direction Yolanda Adams has been going in recent years, I fully expect her to make an Amy Grant pop move within the next few releases. But, she's built up credibility and an audience in gospel. I think gospel and the church will continue to generate sacred and secular music artists. It's a no-brainer for getting people used to performing in front of other people and learning a musical craft. You've made some excellent points. I never thought about the impact that the explosion in the gospel music industry has on the secular world of music. I didn't realize how much money there is to be made in gospel music until I saw a segment on Vicki Winans on the local news. Her house could rival any home that is showcased on MTV's Crib. I didn't know she was ballin' like that.
There seems to be much more money to be made doing gospel music than it was 20+ year ago. [Edited 8/2/06 13:35pm] | |
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PurpleCharm said: Back in the day, black singers got their start in the church. I don't see that happening anymore, at least not from the ones with record deals. Could that be another factor in the decline of r&b music? PC. Most of the artists on the pop charts aren't good enough to sing in the church choir. And the ones that are, would probably be singing background. Unless the choir only had three members! | |
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ThePunisher said: PurpleCharm said: Back in the day, black singers got their start in the church. I don't see that happening anymore, at least not from the ones with record deals. Could that be another factor in the decline of r&b music? PC. Most of the artists on the pop charts aren't good enough to sing in the church choir. And the ones that are, would probably be singing background. Unless the choir only had three members! | |
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theAudience said: Dead on the money.
Just listening to the 40-43 year old Arista-era Aretha Franklin approach tunes like Jump To It and Who's Zoomin' Who? The way she effortlessly slithers her way through the adlibs is simply priceless. So much SOUL yet simultaneously so relaxed she sounds as if she could've cut those tracks while ironing clothes. Reminds me of the way Ali adjusted his style after he was robbed of boxing in his prime. The Greatest then continued to whup that a$$. tA Tribal Disorder
http://www.soundclick.com...dID=182431 YUP. I loooove her vocal performance on "Jump To It" and it's one of those performances I study. The Vandross style is there, since he produced the track, but the tone, emotion, slides, and passion are all hers. It makes me 
Man, I don't have that song on CD. 
As for the topic, I definitely agree. One of the main reasons I got into Gospel music around 1996-1997 was because it's (one of the last places) where the best singers and musicians are. I'm sick and tired of the Prince fans being sick and tired of the Prince fans that are sick and tired! | |
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Adisa said: YUP. I loooove her vocal performance on "Jump To It" and it's one of those performances I study. The Vandross style is there, since he produced the track, but the tone, emotion, slides, and passion are all hers. It makes me
Supposedly he and Marcus Miller put that tune together for Aretha on a piano backstage while waiting to do an SNL performance. Great tune.
tA Tribal Disorder
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paligap said: PurpleCharm said: Exactly. When I look at the artist that are topping the charts today, none of them have a church background, which is why they lack soul. Although Beyonce can sing, I don't hear soulfulness in her voice. That's true, none of those recent artists I mentioned are having any huge chart sucsess, even though you can hear that soulful gospel influence in them. Sadly, the people with a real feel for soul are not going to be heard by the greater audiences now. Actually, it almost seems that the less talented a person is, the greater chance they have of becoming big nowdays... Too many singers these days don't seem to understand an idea like tension and release...they've been brought up thinking that singing is a bunch of acrobatic vocal tricks and histrionics --they havent learned any kind of subtle nuances, slow buildup of emotion...they haven't learned how to really sing a song... ... [Edited 8/2/06 14:53pm] Tell it, pali. SynthiaRose said "I'm in love with blackguitaristz. Especially when he talks about Hendrix."
nammie "What BGZ says I believe. I have the biggest crush on him." http://ccoshea19.googlepa...ssanctuary http://ccoshea19.googlepages.com | |
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