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Printablenamepeace said: Dance on. R&B is Rhythm and Blues. Blues is an element of Rockabilly. But Rockabilly, which includes the blues, doesn't sound ANYTHING like Rhythm and Blues? Get yourself. Heh, heh. Done got! Black R&b of the time wasnt drumless, didnt have slapback echo, didnt have country guitar picking, didnt incorporate bluegrass songs, didnt have Slap Bass. But those were the hallmarks of rockabilly. At least for a while. Rockabilly was for the most part a very jittery, nervous music.... Black R&b was for the most part smooth, even when uptempo.....that is until Mr. Pennimen came along and changed all that!! 
Listen to the Sun session of Elvis. Then listen to his contemporaries at that time like ...I dont know....Big Joe Turner,...or Louis Jordan. Youll hear a BIG difference. . | |
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The sad fact is : most Blacks don't know anything about their musical history. A young White kid will at least know and respect , say, the beatles, stones, or Dylan. But will most young Black kids know or appreciate Aretha or Curtis Mayfield or Jimi Hendrix ?? #SOCIETYDEFINESU | |
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jjhunsecker said: The sad fact is : most Blacks don't know anything about their musical history. A young White kid will at least know and respect , say, the beatles, stones, or Dylan. But will most young Black kids know or appreciate Aretha or Curtis Mayfield or Jimi Hendrix ??
I would dare to say that most white kids don't know the beatles, stones or dylan nowadays either. You said "a white kid" then said "most black kids". My kid likes the crappy music of today but can break out in some Ike and Tina. Music history is also about passing down the history and not just assume a kid is going to go pick up an Aretha record. My kid is one of the few that will pop on a vinyl record when her cousins don't even know what you call it..(my younger cousin said.."those things you guys played that were black with a hole in it")  | |
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the simple fact that this topic exists is ridiculous. completey understandable, but still ridiculous. 'black this' 'white that' fucking bullshit!!!! and what happened to other ethnic backgrounds? lol. i feel fortunate to have grown up in a home where colour was not an issue nor was it ever allowed to have been;, Spanish and English were spoken, never once questioned. and each of us had musical tastes that were all over the spectrum. dick clark an don cornelius had equal time on our screens. (did u catch that? interesting isn't it?) it is infuriating, and completely heartbreaking that we still live in a world where we have to define musical choices of all things, by the colour of one's skin. "Queen of" "King of", etc...there aren't any. top selling, most hits, better looks, blah blah... we are all guilty of it and we all have fun with it. so who do you blame? the media (mtv, bet, etc..) for taking you there, or yourselves for following? | |
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CHIC0 said: the simple fact that this topic exists is ridiculous. completey understandable, but still ridiculous. 'black this' 'white that' fucking bullshit!!!! and what happened to other ethnic backgrounds? lol. i feel fortunate to have grown up in a home where colour was not an issue nor was it ever allowed to have been;, Spanish and English were spoken, never once questioned. and each of us had musical tastes that were all over the spectrum. dick clark an don cornelius had equal time on our screens. (did u catch that? interesting isn't it?) it is infuriating, and completely heartbreaking that we still live in a world where we have to define musical choices of all things, by the colour of one's skin. "Queen of" "King of", etc...there aren't any. top selling, most hits, better looks, blah blah... we are all guilty of it and we all have fun with it. so who do you blame? the media (mtv, bet, etc..) for taking you there, or yourselves for following?
The FOUNDATION of America is built on the RACE. U can try 2 ignore it.....but it won't work. | |
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Graycap23 said: CHIC0 said: the simple fact that this topic exists is ridiculous. completey understandable, but still ridiculous. 'black this' 'white that' fucking bullshit!!!! and what happened to other ethnic backgrounds? lol. i feel fortunate to have grown up in a home where colour was not an issue nor was it ever allowed to have been;, Spanish and English were spoken, never once questioned. and each of us had musical tastes that were all over the spectrum. dick clark an don cornelius had equal time on our screens. (did u catch that? interesting isn't it?) it is infuriating, and completely heartbreaking that we still live in a world where we have to define musical choices of all things, by the colour of one's skin. "Queen of" "King of", etc...there aren't any. top selling, most hits, better looks, blah blah... we are all guilty of it and we all have fun with it. so who do you blame? the media (mtv, bet, etc..) for taking you there, or yourselves for following?
The FOUNDATION of America is built on the RACE. U can try 2 ignore it.....but it won't work.  did you read what i wrote???? | |
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CHIC0 said: the simple fact that this topic exists is ridiculous. completey understandable, but still ridiculous. 'black this' 'white that' fucking bullshit!!!! and what happened to other ethnic backgrounds? lol. i feel fortunate to have grown up in a home where colour was not an issue nor was it ever allowed to have been;, Spanish and English were spoken, never once questioned. and each of us had musical tastes that were all over the spectrum. dick clark an don cornelius had equal time on our screens. (did u catch that? interesting isn't it?) it is infuriating, and completely heartbreaking that we still live in a world where we have to define musical choices of all things, by the colour of one's skin. "Queen of" "King of", etc...there aren't any. top selling, most hits, better looks, blah blah... we are all guilty of it and we all have fun with it. so who do you blame? the media (mtv, bet, etc..) for taking you there, or yourselves for following?
I can definitely appreciate your sentiment. But it's a little different when it's not your culture. Each ethnic background should take ownership of their culture... by no means does that mean we should separate ourselves but we should celebrate our diversity. | |
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BSK3601 said: I can definitely appreciate your sentiment. But it's a little different when it's not your culture. Each ethnic background should take ownership of their culture... by no means does that mean we should separate ourselves but we should celebrate our diversity.
wtf????? 
where am i disagreeing with anyone celebrating their own culture? and i find it funny how people on this site (and not necessarily you  )
that assume they know your culture or ethnic background for that matter, when they've never seen you or inquired to ask. i met someone off this site at a meet up. their reaction was "oh. this is Chico???". their attitude in person immediately contradicted their attitude towards me online. if i'm that ugly, then fine. but i saw something else. so those who choose to ignore it and say i'm misunderstanding..well that's their choice. that's their life. i won't support someone simply based on the colour of their skin simply because their face reflects mine, for the same reason i won't support someone who's more popular simply because i'm told that's what is what the majority does. i'm sure 90% of the people on here think because i love Madonna and Kylie that i must reflect their male counterpart. they could not be further from the truth.
i've started many threads about black artists. even hispanic artists for that matter. i started one the other day about Sam Cooke and Nat King Cole as a matter of fact. and some of the very people who are crying about not "supporting" their own and such replied to every thread around it. perhaps they don't like me..so what. or maybe just maybe, the artists weren't POPULAR or significant enough to them. nice sentiment???  | |
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Rhondab said: hellomoto said: People are saying how rock'n'roll is a black music form, which isnt entirely correct, it's actually an american form of music. although it was formed by black people, they couldn't have created this type of music without europeans and their music and instruments. they created the music from a mixture of traditional african music and traditional european music like folk music. rock'n'roll doesn't sound like traditional african music, you cant deny the infuence of white people in the genre.
no one has denied white ppl in any way. If anything black ppl have been denied their impact and influence on Rock n roll and that's what this thread is about. I wasn't talking about the general public or the media, I was talking about the people on this site who keep saying rock'n'roll is a black music form and whites stole it. | |
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if it wasn't for justin timberlake... and people like that. marvin gaye, james brown and people like the beatles wouldnt' stand a chance!! he paved their way... | |
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hellomoto said: Rhondab said: no one has denied white ppl in any way. If anything black ppl have been denied their impact and influence on Rock n roll and that's what this thread is about. I wasn't talking about the general public or the media, I was talking about the people on this site who keep saying rock'n'roll is a black music form and whites stole it. I wouldn't go as far as saying white people "stole" the music, but society would rather hear a white man singing "black music" back in the day, rather than a black person singing "black music". I mean it happens even now, they would do anything to big up a white, artist who just happens to have a "soulful" voice. They even trying doing this with the Osmonds and the J5; Do any of you guys who are old enough remember; "one Bad Apple"? Elvis's first producer who was white, took Elvis on because he was a white man, that sounded "black". There was quote by him saying if he could find a white boy with the "black feel" then he can do alot, and low and behold along came Elvis, and the rest was history. This is what was happening back then, sad but true. Another ridiculous situation, was up to the 60s you would have Motown artists like Marvin Gaye who couldn't have their own faces on their own record sleeves, instead they would rather put a blond couple on the sleeve, now that's not exactly "stealing" but there was a hell alot of "recreation" going on to pretend that black people had nothing to do with the great music which was being produce.. [Edited 8/2/06 1:52am] | |
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Hey,  Elvis. This thread wasn't about him, it was about lack of recognition of black artists. Amerikkka is always looking for a "great white hope". Be it Elvis or Eminem, the names change but the concept stays the same. There is a glass ceiling for black artists. There always has been and there probably always will be. | |
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BlaqueKnight said: Hey,
Elvis. This thread wasn't about him, it was about lack of recognition of black artists. Amerikkka is always looking for a "great white hope". Be it Elvis or Eminem, the names change but the concept stays the same. There is a glass ceiling for black artists. There always has been and there probably always will be.
wow | |
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hellomoto said: Rhondab said: no one has denied white ppl in any way. If anything black ppl have been denied their impact and influence on Rock n roll and that's what this thread is about. I wasn't talking about the general public or the media, I was talking about the people on this site who keep saying rock'n'roll is a black music form and whites stole it. And yet you're still off the mark. | |
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sexyfunkystrange said: Heh, heh. Done got! Black R&b of the time wasnt drumless, didnt have slapback echo, didnt have country guitar picking, didnt incorporate bluegrass songs, didnt have Slap Bass. But those were the hallmarks of rockabilly. At least for a while. Rockabilly was for the most part a very jittery, nervous music.... Black R&b was for the most part smooth, even when uptempo.....that is until Mr. Pennimen came along and changed all that!!
Listen to the Sun session of Elvis. Then listen to his contemporaries at that time like ...I dont know....Big Joe Turner,...or Louis Jordan. Youll hear a BIG difference. But again . . . if Rockabilly contains elements of the blues that makes up Rhythm and Blues, then there are certainly distinctions in style and tempo, but they have at least some of the same DNA. By that reckoning, your blanket statement that Rockabilly sounds nothing like R&B, which is subject to debate, can't be right. Good night, sweet Prince | 7 June 1958 - 21 April 2016
Props will be withheld until the showing and proving has commenced. -- Aaron McGruder | |
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Rhondab said: hellomoto said: I wasn't talking about the general public or the media, I was talking about the people on this site who keep saying rock'n'roll is a black music form and whites stole it. And yet you're still off the mark. how exactly? | |
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hellomoto said: Rhondab said: And yet you're still off the mark. how exactly? this is about blacks being RECOGNIZED. It has less to do with white ppl and more to do with the contributions of black musicians. | |
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Rhondab said: hellomoto said: how exactly? this is about blacks being RECOGNIZED. It has less to do with white ppl and more to do with the contributions of black musicians. You obviously dont understand what I'm saying. I KNOW that, I was not responding to the topic, I was responding to people in here who keep referring to it as black music, like I stated in my original post. I'll state it again as you obviously don't understand what I'm saying. I'm not talking about the contributions made by whites recently in modern times to rock'n'roll like The Beatles, I know they get enough credit. I'm talking about people in here ignoring that rock'n'roll was formed by merging a european music form with an african music form. I'm talking about the role white music made in forming the original rock'n'roll. People in here are ignoring that when they refer to it as being black music, when they should be referring to it as American music as all different cultures music was used to form it. Again I know it was black people who formed it, but they made it by merging european music. There could be no rock'n'roll without it. | |
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hellomoto said: Rhondab said: this is about blacks being RECOGNIZED. It has less to do with white ppl and more to do with the contributions of black musicians. You obviously dont understand what I'm saying. I KNOW that, I was not responding to the topic, I was responding to people in here who keep referring to it as black music, like I stated in my original post. I'll state it again as you obviously don't understand what I'm saying. I'm not talking about the contributions made by whites recently in modern times to rock'n'roll like The Beatles, I know they get enough credit. I'm talking about people in here ignoring that rock'n'roll was formed by merging a european music form with an african music form. I'm talking about the role white music made in forming the original rock'n'roll. People in here are ignoring that when they refer to it as being black music, when they should be referring to it as American music as all different cultures music was used to form it. Again I know it was black people who formed it, but they made it by merging european music. There could be no rock'n'roll without it. No I get what you're saying because you've stated this before on other topics when someone has stated that rock n' roll is a form of black music. EVERYONE is clear on the roles white ppl, no matter where they live or come from, have played in rock n' roll but once AGAIN this isn't about white ppl but understanding the impact that blacks have had on the form. We understand that music changes and develops into different types and genres. This is about understanding that this American form of music called rock n roll is deep rooted in black music. So yeah...I get what you've said, "No matter what, please always recognize white ppl". Yeah...I get it. | |
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hellomoto said: Rhondab said: this is about blacks being RECOGNIZED. It has less to do with white ppl and more to do with the contributions of black musicians. You obviously dont understand what I'm saying. I KNOW that, I was not responding to the topic, I was responding to people in here who keep referring to it as black music, like I stated in my original post. I'll state it again as you obviously don't understand what I'm saying. I'm not talking about the contributions made by whites recently in modern times to rock'n'roll like The Beatles, I know they get enough credit. I'm talking about people in here ignoring that rock'n'roll was formed by merging a european music form with an african music form. I'm talking about the role white music made in forming the original rock'n'roll. People in here are ignoring that when they refer to it as being black music, when they should be referring to it as American music as all different cultures music was used to form it. Again I know it was black people who formed it, but they made it by merging european music. There could be no rock'n'roll without it. When black people were playing rock and roll it was called things like jungle music and devil music. Once whites started to indulge in the genre, it became okay. The bigotry was there. There's no way to hide it. Whites wanted nothig to do with rock n' roll at first, so stop trying to distort history. | |
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[quote] dreamfactory313 said: 1. I dont think black music is in a completely pathetic state. There are great artists out there dying to go gold but many people never even know they're there because the record buying public is lazy and in "full effect bash mode". Yeah, I just coined a new phrase. See how innovative I am?
Is it the public or the music TV networks and radio stations that are lazy? IMO it is those music distribution mediums that are lazy. They claim that they are current and that they offer variety. However, they only distribute and support what they think it's gonna sell. Seems to me that BET followed in the steps of MTV in that respect. [Edited 8/3/06 15:39pm] | |
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Rhondab said: hellomoto said: You obviously dont understand what I'm saying. I KNOW that, I was not responding to the topic, I was responding to people in here who keep referring to it as black music, like I stated in my original post. I'll state it again as you obviously don't understand what I'm saying. I'm not talking about the contributions made by whites recently in modern times to rock'n'roll like The Beatles, I know they get enough credit. I'm talking about people in here ignoring that rock'n'roll was formed by merging a european music form with an african music form. I'm talking about the role white music made in forming the original rock'n'roll. People in here are ignoring that when they refer to it as being black music, when they should be referring to it as American music as all different cultures music was used to form it. Again I know it was black people who formed it, but they made it by merging european music. There could be no rock'n'roll without it. No I get what you're saying because you've stated this before on other topics when someone has stated that rock n' roll is a form of black music. EVERYONE is clear on the roles white ppl, no matter where they live or come from, have played in rock n' roll but once AGAIN this isn't about white ppl but understanding the impact that blacks have had on the form. We understand that music changes and develops into different types and genres. This is about understanding that this American form of music called rock n roll is deep rooted in black music. So yeah...I get what you've said, "No matter what, please always recognize white ppl". Yeah...I get it. For the third time, I UNDERSTAND what the topic is about, I'm not responding to the topic, but to people who have said something i disagree with. And actually I've never stated anyhting about this topic ever before. I don't know where you got that from. You must be confusing me with someone else. | |
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BlaqueKnight said: hellomoto said: You obviously dont understand what I'm saying. I KNOW that, I was not responding to the topic, I was responding to people in here who keep referring to it as black music, like I stated in my original post. I'll state it again as you obviously don't understand what I'm saying. I'm not talking about the contributions made by whites recently in modern times to rock'n'roll like The Beatles, I know they get enough credit. I'm talking about people in here ignoring that rock'n'roll was formed by merging a european music form with an african music form. I'm talking about the role white music made in forming the original rock'n'roll. People in here are ignoring that when they refer to it as being black music, when they should be referring to it as American music as all different cultures music was used to form it. Again I know it was black people who formed it, but they made it by merging european music. There could be no rock'n'roll without it. When black people were playing rock and roll it was called things like jungle music and devil music. Once whites started to indulge in the genre, it became okay. The bigotry was there. There's no way to hide it. Whites wanted nothig to do with rock n' roll at first, so stop trying to distort history. I'm not distorting history. I'm just saying that it is not strictly black music if they incorporated other races music into the genre. | |
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hellomoto said: BlaqueKnight said: When black people were playing rock and roll it was called things like jungle music and devil music. Once whites started to indulge in the genre, it became okay. The bigotry was there. There's no way to hide it. Whites wanted nothig to do with rock n' roll at first, so stop trying to distort history. I'm not distorting history. I'm just saying that it is not strictly black music if they incorporated other races music into the genre. Rock & Roll was Rock & Roll, before this "merging" that you are talking about. It was it just did not have that name to it. The basic foundation of the music has always come from blacks. Other races have come in and added their own flavor to it. But, it has always been something that blacks have created. It is a pitty that we have not taken care of our creation. I am not saying that others cannot share in the upbringing of it, but at least give the creators of it credit where it is due. But again I say, some of the blame has to fall on our own. "Love is like peeing in your pants, everyone sees it but only you feel its warmth" |
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dreamfactory313 said: BlaqueKnight said: Nothing pisses me off more than the recognition given to the wrong black artists. Triple 6 Mafia - a Grammy? WTF? Neptunes - best producers? GTFOH! Ashanti - Lady of Soul award? In what lifetime? These days the hype generation continually reinforces mediocre artists ESPECIALLY in the hip-hop & R&B genres while the real artists are left to what can only be described as a modern day "chittlin' circuit" of an audience to show them love and keep them going. At least back in the day, most of the black artists recognized deserved their recognition whether you liked them or not. Nowadays the innovators are hidden and the copycats, half-talents and musical clowns are pushed to the forefront. There's not one black artist close to the top of the charts these days that could incite a revolution or even a change through their music. Worse, there's no one to cheer for when they achieve because you know they don't even represent the best there is to offer.
Nothing pisses me off more than black folkz shittin on other black folkz instead of supporting the artists that they do like. Don't hate. Innovate! If u have something to offer GET IN THE GAME. If not, shut the fuck up. Rant over. ----- Nothing pisses me off more than black folk who think we are beyond critism. We have a lot of artist who suck ass in RnB today. They ride off of a lot of hype and we as black people should not be afraid to come out and say so. In fact get off the plantation. We are free to say and do as we please. | |
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hellomoto said: Rhondab said: No I get what you're saying because you've stated this before on other topics when someone has stated that rock n' roll is a form of black music. EVERYONE is clear on the roles white ppl, no matter where they live or come from, have played in rock n' roll but once AGAIN this isn't about white ppl but understanding the impact that blacks have had on the form. We understand that music changes and develops into different types and genres. This is about understanding that this American form of music called rock n roll is deep rooted in black music. So yeah...I get what you've said, "No matter what, please always recognize white ppl". Yeah...I get it. For the third time, I UNDERSTAND what the topic is about, I'm not responding to the topic, but to people who have said something i disagree with. And actually I've never stated anyhting about this topic ever before. I don't know where you got that from. You must be confusing me with someone else. No i'm not Hellomoto....you have made comments about a similar topic some months back. I'm not confusing you with anyone. This is what you're saying: Let's say blue created the violin and plays ONLY classical music with the violin but then yellow comes along and plays hip hop, and NEW genre, using the violin. You're saying that yellow has to give some credit to blue because yellow is taking from blue. We are saying NO. We are saying that it is a NEW form. LOL...this is a sucky analogy but damn it I'mma roll with it.
but anyway....laura is right. Black folks are not above criticism. The only way to move beyond some things is to evaluate the situation, address it, and change it. | |
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Rhondab said: hellomoto said: For the third time, I UNDERSTAND what the topic is about, I'm not responding to the topic, but to people who have said something i disagree with. And actually I've never stated anyhting about this topic ever before. I don't know where you got that from. You must be confusing me with someone else. No i'm not Hellomoto....you have made comments about a similar topic some months back. I'm not confusing you with anyone. This is what you're saying: Let's say blue created the violin and plays ONLY classical music with the violin but then yellow comes along and plays hip hop, and NEW genre, using the violin. You're saying that yellow has to give some credit to blue because yellow is taking from blue. We are saying NO. We are saying that it is a NEW form. LOL...this is a sucky analogy but damn it I'mma roll with it.
but anyway....laura is right. Black folks are not above criticism. The only way to move beyond some things is to evaluate the situation, address it, and change it. European music isn't only classical. You must not have ever heard of folk music before, much faster music which incorporates guitars, tamborines/drums and other instruments associated with rock'n'roll. It sounds much more like rock'n'roll then any other form of traditional music. Rock'n'roll was black peoples way of playing country/folk music (Chuck Berry's first single was a remake of an old fiddler song), and heavy metal and all other forms of modern day rock is white peoples version of rock'n'roll. How can someone play an instrument they've never even heard or seen before, they would of had to be inspired by someone who already new how to play it. And again I know I've never commented on the origin of popular music before and made any comments like that. I didnt even know the origin of rock'n'roll before so I don't know why your even claiming that I've said something before when I know I haven't, I wouldn't have even responded to your claim if i was unsure of if i said anything, but I know I didn't. | |
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hellomoto said: How can someone play an instrument they've never even heard or seen before, they would of had to be inspired by someone who already new how to play it.
Pardon the jump-in... But stringed instruments weren't exactly exclusive to Europe ... 
 | |
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ThreadBare said: hellomoto said: How can someone play an instrument they've never even heard or seen before, they would of had to be inspired by someone who already new how to play it.
Pardon the jump-in... But stringed instruments weren't exactly exclusive to Europe ...
And according to wikipedia, the banjo originated in Africa: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banjo | |
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hellomoto said: Rhondab said: No i'm not Hellomoto....you have made comments about a similar topic some months back. I'm not confusing you with anyone. This is what you're saying: Let's say blue created the violin and plays ONLY classical music with the violin but then yellow comes along and plays hip hop, and NEW genre, using the violin. You're saying that yellow has to give some credit to blue because yellow is taking from blue. We are saying NO. We are saying that it is a NEW form. LOL...this is a sucky analogy but damn it I'mma roll with it.
but anyway....laura is right. Black folks are not above criticism. The only way to move beyond some things is to evaluate the situation, address it, and change it. European music isn't only classical. You must not have ever heard of folk music before, much faster music which incorporates guitars, tamborines/drums and other instruments associated with rock'n'roll. It sounds much more like rock'n'roll then any other form of traditional music. Rock'n'roll was black peoples way of playing country/folk music (Chuck Berry's first single was a remake of an old fiddler song), and heavy metal and all other forms of modern day rock is white peoples version of rock'n'roll. How can someone play an instrument they've never even heard or seen before, they would of had to be inspired by someone who already new how to play it. And again I know I've never commented on the origin of popular music before and made any comments like that. I didnt even know the origin of rock'n'roll before so I don't know why your even claiming that I've said something before when I know I haven't, I wouldn't have even responded to your claim if i was unsure of if i said anything, but I know I didn't. You can protest all you like but me and YOU have had this very conversation before. But it really doesn't matter because you still don't get it. And I know that European music isn't just classic...IT WAS AN EXAMPLE..... [Edited 8/5/06 12:45pm] | |
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