lilgish said:

Maze & frankie beverly,though not completely known as a funk band,they have a couple of funk hits like running away and southern girl. Maze has never had
a white audience or cross over hits. There music has been and always will be
strictly r&b. Most of maze albums have quietly gone gold or platinum and that is
consistency because you have some artists who will sell 2 or 3 million albums there first time out or two and then fall completely off the face of this earth. Maze has not recorded a studio album in over 10 years, yet they are still one of r&b most consistent touring bands because they already have a core audience in place that is not white. Maze shows still sell maybe not like rock bands but their audience is good enough. R&B bands like maze who have a loyal following do not need a white audience.

phunkdaddy said:

Totally, good example.

lilgish said:

Actually the only bands on this list to really cross over were Cameo, Earth wind & Fire and Kool & the Gang. And Cameo and Kool & the Gang only crossed over well after they were established acts.

Sowhat said:

The Commodores too man. Remember sail on,still,and brick house were crossover hits. Remember the days when lionel and the commodores used to funk with fancy dancer,gimme my mule,and slippery when wet. Damn lionel we miss that shit man.

Sowhat said:

I would say The Commodores had some crossover success. My main point is that most bands that had commerical success amongst a Black audience were funk bands. The reason the question "Will Black Bands Ever Make A Commercial Comeback" was becuase they are very few commercial Black bands at the moment, and why is that? That's because funk is dead, sorry FuNkeNsteiN, but if funk was popular amongst the young Black generation then you would see alot more Black bands doing well.
They are a few R&B groups that were mentioned (Mint Condition being a current one) and Maze and older one, absolutely no Rock bands....The Roots for hiphop maybe
[Edited 7/31/06 10:01am]

phunkdaddy said:

They are, but what they do is Greek to many of those that prefer hip-hop/rap. I caught them last year at BBKings. Everyone at a table of 12, as well as the tables on either side (except one couple), was or had been in a band themselves.

People respond to music that speaks to their lifestyle. The more hip-hop moves away from what is "music", the longer the journey back. For the kids of the future, it will have to come from this end. At some point, one of the rap species will pick up an instrument (2001: A Space Odyssey theme will be the soundtrack to this this momentous occasion), and that life form will elevate.

It could be that a band shows up and, on other levels, they connect to the hip-hop/rap gen. But turning a generation back onto music is going to be a slower process.

Purple Charm has, I do believe, asked this question, or something damn similar to it, in the past. I'm currently writing, producing and recording an album for a black female vocalist right now. The material is under the funk/rock genre and once the album is completed, I'm putting together an all black band, which will include myself on lead guitar, around her. As some folks on here already know, I've had bands that were all black that played funk/rock. Not cuz we were forced to do so, but because that's what I've always have been into and is what I love to play. True, the following that I've had has always been largely white, BUT, depending on where way play and how it was promoted, black folks have always shown love as well. The bottom line is, as far as the industry goes is, that your thing has to be marketable. If you're a black artist, and you're incorporating any type of live instrumentation into your material, then your shit HAS to be bangin'. Period. You're competing against the non playing element that has been so dominant in music. If your shit is bangin' and you can back it up in a live setting and it's marketed and promoted right, then you'll have a shot. But the whole package must be there. The material, the image, the cool videos, slamming in a live setting, etc. You've got to make people, black, white, green or blue, want to get into what you're bringing. If your shit is TRULY good, people will dig it. And those that do, then, THAT's your audience. EVERYBODY loves good music. That will never change. It just depends on if u can get it to the masses. There are many black kids, given the chance, would dig "real" music. Many are starving for something different. It just has to be "served" to them, i.e, radio airplay, videos, etc. To crack that in the right way, your shit HAS to be tight.

anon said:

in that case, you shoulda cued the music in 1994 . . .





[Edited 7/31/06 11:10am]

blackguitaristz said:

I agree with you. This group will probably have to tap into two worlds the way Keith sweat bridged R&B and hip-hop. That's not easy to calculate, though...when it happens, it's usually more of a fluke thing.

namepeace said:

Well, they have a new CD coming out. Let's see how that goes. But, I meant music that can be comprehended...something simple...something that will make a musically illiterate gen say "I can do that". The more you actually "play", the greater the divide you create.

They say that when in a sub-culture, people will create their own heros. With rap/hip-hop it goes farther. Everyone can rap so instead of creating heroes, everyone becomes the potential hero. This is not something that a generation will easily give up. I suspect that some never will. As it begins to branch off, many will remain.

All the things mentioned in this thread could be the possible breakthru. The time is right for change. Somehow real music will find it's way back in.

anon said:

And even deeper than that, if it's your calling and you stay true to the vision that you've been blessed with, baby, it's gonna happen. U don't have to know when or how, cuz really, the blessing isn't just for you. It's waaay bigger than you. It's for others, u know? Folks that u won't ever know or ever meet.

anon said:

Where have I heard that before?

The "I can do that" syndrome is one of the reasons for the popularity of acts Creedence Clearwater Revival, Steve Miller (Fly Like An Eagle), Nirvana and Punk-Rock in general.
They become the foundation for cover bands across the country as they don't require a high level of musicianship to reproduce the tunes.
With Rap there's even less of an investment necessary. A beat and a braggart is generally all that's required.

This cycle of the progression of musicianship and then a rebellion against it has happened before.
The listening public will just have to hope that they're moving through this cycle again and wait it out.
However as the "business" has changed, it may cycle through in a way we're unfamiliar with.


tA

Tribal Disorder

http://www.soundclick.com...dID=182431

blackguitaristz said:

theAudience said:

Herein lies part of the problem.....the "suits".....can't live with 'em, can't live without 'em.

Musicians/artists either need a business person they can trust to mold their career in the form they desire, or they need a business mind themselves.

Unfortunately too many of the business people in music today are determining the future for all of us, instead of finding a balance between a good business sense, a tad of commercialism, and an appreciation for the musicians as artists, and an ability to promote that artistry in a creative manner.....

blackguitaristz said:

True again. But just because you stay true to a vision doesn't mean it will happen on a large scale. It will "happen" because you make it happen and it will be true if you are creatively rooted in honesty. It will take one that is not only true but collectively tapped in, as well.

theAudience said:

Exactly but we're working backwards now. It's one thing to strip something down...but how do you build it up? Especially when there is no incentive. In many way it's like going back to the roots and starting over.

anon said:

I read an article in the Detroit Free Press (or maybe it was the Detroit News...basically the same thing) and the buzz is apparently very good...but it has been on all their albums. Their such a great band. I definately will get this album. I think the fact that artists like them are still around is good enough...you can't hope for a miracle.

Yeah the roots are holding it down as well as the brand new heavies.
If we keep supporting bands like them the day will come slowly but never
like in the 70's.

lilgish said:

I understand what you are saying.

blackguitaristz said:

haha...I probably did raise this question before, I don't quite remember when.

Thanks for responding.

PurpleCharm said:

My musician friends and I recently had a discussion on this very topic.The "band"concept is alive and well in rock and country genres.
But the rise of hip hop has killed the R&B bands.

Fortunately every 5-10 years,a change occurs in the taste of the american record buying public.For example, the mid 80's marked the rise of Heavy Metal.At the same time the icons of Pop,MJ,Prince,Madonna,and The Boss dominated the charts.5 years later Gangsta Rap and Grunge blew up.Then around 1995,Teen Pop ruled the charts up to around the year 2001.

It's almost 2007,like Peter Brady sang,it's time to change.I believe that if an R&B band with a hot image,solid hit singles,and last but absolutely not least,excellent musicianship were to emerge.They would have massive success.
And I intend to prove it.Don't touch that dial.

blackguitaristz said:

Straight on point Black-G .

blackguitaristz said:

That's why places like MySpace , CdBaby or one's own site , and above all , own management could work in advantage for the artists .
Better than to depend on backup from Clear Channel-bobos or whatever other executive slave-drivers handing-out strengle-contracts .
That ain't currently the promotion-area to focus on if you ask me .
.
.
.
[Edited 8/1/06 4:59am]

anon said:

So maybe the hip-hop nation needs its version of The Ramones or something like that. To the extent they may be out there, they're not getting on MTV, VH1 or black radio.



I can see that.



I agree to the extent that musicians will find their way back into the mainstream.

I only disagree to the extent that "real music" is flourishing below the surface. Musicians are now taking hip-hop's place in the underground.

100MPH said:

Thanx, 100.

They will never make a comeback as long as shit hop is cheap to make. Even if they halfway comeback, it will be some boring ass slow shit. That's all these kids these days know because that's all they have grown up on.....shit hop and ballads. Anything past opera tempo, they holler "That disco shit"....like that's something bad.

A concept based on a weird daydream I had...

* Based on good home training, a group of kids will develop an appreciation for actual music.
* This group of kids will decide to learn how to play musical instruments.
* They'll stick with it until they're very good at it.
* They'll decide to start a band.
* They'll discover that it's an alternate way of communicating with each other.
* They'll stick with it until they're very good at it.
* They'll continue to do it without regard for fame or fortune.
* They'll continue to do it because they can't help it.
* They'll continue to do it because they simply LOVE it.

...And no there wasn't any, "sssss, Yeah I see what you mean bro." goin' on.

I haven't been high in years.


tA

Tribal Disorder

http://www.soundclick.com...dID=182431

vainandy said:

First time i noticed something like that was in the movie Juice with 2Pac in a lead-role . This was around the mid-90's or something ?
Anyway , Pac and 2 homies are in a record-store and one of them picks out a classic funk-soul record which i recognised to have in my collection .
Pac and the other homie were like : "Dawg , WTF do you have in your hands ?! .... Put that shit back !"
I mean , it's just a "movie" but around that time or before it , Pac was part of the Oakland rap-funk formation Digital Underground , which payed much respect to P-Funk .

Speaking of which , i've heard or read once an interesting quote from George Clinton . He felt that funk has done strong fusion with housemusic .
Some of y'all might not get that , but i've heard some awesome funkhouse-tracks in the past few years .
Not in the sense of pure and uncut funk like from the Mothership , but one that has taken another direction .
I guess that's what George tried to explain .


http://www.myspace.com/opolopo

Check 4 example the track Street Lights rmx on the MySpace above .
.
.
.
[Edited 8/2/06 10:49am]

theAudience said:

Weird daydreams usually becomes reality.

I remember when I first heard house music in the late 1980s around 1985 or 1986, it reminded me a lot of a more modern version of disco music except a lot of it didn't have much vocals in it. Around 1988 or 1989, a lot of the songs were starting to have vocals with groups such as Black Box and The 49ers. More and more groups started doing house and it came above ground.

By 1990, funk was almost totally extinct and it looked like house was going to take it's place. That was fine with me at the time because it was a form of music that was original, made from scratch, and had a very danceable tempo like funk and disco had. In fact, a lot of the house music was downright funky during this era. The problem is, house music was not funk's replacement. Instead, hip hop replaced it and hip hop was totally stripped down of instruments and never got past midtempo unless it was the Miami bass type rap. House music went a total different direction also. It stopped being funky and became more acid, techno, or trance sounding. After that, I just threw my hands in the air, gave up, and decided I would just pull my old records and say the hell with the new shit.

namepeace said:

I don't disagree with that. "Real music" didn't go anywhere and it never will. I meant on a large scale. I'm thinking more of the majority of music consumers...What will it take for them to want to understand "music"?