Dayspring said:

So basically she should just shut up for what she believes in because Dayspring says it doesn't matter. Got it. You should run for President...of Pluto.

StoneCrib said:

Dayspring said:

Doesn't bother me if that's what they want to do. I'd rather hear someone crusading about gender equality in videos and radio play for artists with actual talent than some empty-headed twats "singing" about money and parties.

BlaqueKnight said:

Well, it seems you've missed my point, because it's about not using the white man as the "well he does it too" excuse, since that's the ONLY model you're using in this case, but to stop it our own damn selves. You can use all that double-talk all you want, but it STILL falls back on Blacks stopping it ourselves. Like I said, we took it to another level and NO ONE but us did.

StoneCrib said:

no, she should do anything she wants. but it DOESN'T matter. Jill Scott doesn't have the power to change it. she doesn't even have the relevance or popularity for anyone to even listen to her.

meow85 said:

Well duh. But I was playing the race card for that argument.

meow85 said:

hell, if she looked any good in a bikini she'd be out there shaking her ass too to sell some records.

Dayspring said:

Not necessarily. Some people here and there still have class.

Dayspring said:

This kind of brings it all full-circle. Another poster registered opposition to Jill Scott's comments, and now it's suggested she'd be the same way if she looked more conventional.

Maybe the threat is seen in women choosing roles and operating in capacities in ways that have less to do with being validated by men and more to do with discovering and building upon their own inherent value.

It's not just that, for some men, a devalued woman might be easier to exploit and manipulate. The women who oppose that manipulation and exploitation must be ridiculed, too.

It's a proud day for men.

StoneCrib said:

Double talk? What double talk? I'm not even disagreeing with you, man. It IS up to us. WE are the ones who have to do what we can to discourage these trends. I'm not argueing with you. The difference is I don't believe in holding the same deeds committed by others to a different set of standards. Maybe you do? That's YOU. I don't. I call it like I see it. I'm not going to arrest the street drug dealer and excuse the corporation that funded the drugs that got transported for the street dealers to sell. They are ALL to blame. Such is the case with this. The heads of media are promoting this exploitation just as much as our people. You can defend them all you want, but they are ALL wrong. Don't just point the finger at one set of troublemakers and ignore the others.
The real TRUTH of the matter is exploitation has ALWAYS been around (disprove that. Name a time when it wasn't) and exploitation WILL ALWAYS BE HERE. Some people you can help and talk into changing their ways (like what Jill is trying to do) and others will ALWAYS take the money. You can't help them. I'm a realist. I understand this. People in power throw money at people without to get them to say and do what they want them to. That's a FACT OF LIFE. Some are always going to do for self.

Dayspring said:

Amel Larrieux and Goapele have the looks to be doing just that but they aren't.

Dayspring said:

You know, sometimes for people to begin to see things clearly there has to be a dialogue about it.

Statements such as this one are not unlike Jill b/c of the kind of artist/woman she is - she's far from a video hoe & discusses sex in her songs in a loving & sexy manner, not a raunchy one.

So in a way, Jill saying this WILL be preaching to the choir - her audience is probably made up of (mostly) like minded people who think the current state of Black women in videos is tragic.

HOWEVER I think you sorely underestimate her appeal to the Black community as well as to her fellow artists. Maybe Jill can't book an hour on Dateline to yap about what's on her mind (like some people ), but she's part of starting/continuing this dialogue & may influence someone who CAN. So yes, her words do matter. They may not matter to you but they damn sure matter to me.

Dayspring said:

Bullshit.Jill Scott may not sell records like Mariah Carey,but she is still a big name in the R&B/neo-soul world.She has a large fanbase.People will listen to her.Hell,look at us here on this site,dissecting her comments

BlaqueKnight said:

exactly!

ThreadBare said:

Frankly, I could give a rat's ass what anyone does as long as it's not illegal. That's the beauty of this country. People can do and believe whatever they want. They can complain about "exploiting" women in booty videos. Or they can make them.

DavidEye said:

Her fanbase is only as big as the number of albums she's sold.

CalhounSq said:

That's great. You're a fan. And you're part of the choir she's preaching to. Excellent.


That's exactly my point. Tell 100 people that Jill Scott is against video hoes and 99 of them will say "Jill who?"

The other 1 will say "no duh."


I'm not against her speaking out about it. I think that's great. My point is that it's a "so what?" sort of thing. She's not going to change anything. As long as people are making money, they're going to want to continue to make money. Not everybody's as talented as Jill Scott. They gotta make their bones the way they can. It's working for them far better than her method is working for her.

Dayspring said:

So you don't think a dialogue needs to be started? That maybe some other artists who's fan base is a little more in the realm of the video hoe might start listening & talking themselves? I mean really - if a change is going to happen where do you propose it starts? And why shouldn't Jill be a part of the dialogue?

Did you even read my post? The dialogue won't END with Jill (with any luck), it's great for her to be a part of the dialogue. Period.

CalhounSq said:

Let's face it. It's not going to even start with Jill. If she had someone up there in a position of power in the media who is guilty of the "exploitation" or one of the artists who make the booty videos, then that would start a dialogue.

Besides, a dialogue is completely pointless. When video hoes are no longer a successful tool for selling records, that's when you'll stop seeing them. No dialogue is going to happen. It doesn't need to, because what they're doing is what's working and that's all they care about. Sex sells, and when it stops, that'll be the end of that. But I wouldn't hold my breat waiting for it to happen.

Jill Scott is making some very valid social points but here's the sad reality.
This is a choice certain women are making of their own free will for whatever the reason.
Just like women that decide to do porno or pose naked in magazines.

Bottom line, it's the consumer that will determine the final outcome.
And we can all see what the consumer has been buying.



tA

Tribal Disorder

http://www.soundclick.com...dID=182431

Dayspring said:

I disagree.I think a dialogue needs to happen.In recent years,I've noticed that many Black women have gotten fed up with how they are portrayed in these videos and are now speaking up.The tide is turning and many of these rappers are now being held accountable for their actions.Remember what happened with Nelly a few years ago? He wanted to hold a bone marrow drive at Spelman College for his dying sister.But the women at that college threatened to protest his appearance,forcing him to chicken out and cancel the whole thing.He didn't even have the balls to confront them and explain why he disrespects and degrades them.They made him look like a coward.And now these rappers are complaining because Oprah won't have them on her show.They're feeling the heat.Yes,I know that they're still out there,selling lots of records regardless,but I still think the tide is turning.They're being called on their bullshit and that's a start.

theAudience said:

exactly, but i have a question: why do u see that as sad?
[Edited 7/5/06 1:49am]

Dayspring said:

This is a sad but true statement. Its what I was saying earlier. As long as there's someone throwing money at these girls to get half naked in music videos there will be someone willing to do it and someone willing to watch it.
The DIALOG that needs to occur serves best as a way to sway the Amel Larrieuxs and the Linas and the Goapeles from travelling down that path rather than to try to convince the Lil Kims not to do it. Some women love the attention they get when they are being exploited and there's nothing you can do to change their minds. So be it. Live with it because they have to as well. There are others who do it out of desperation or lack of awareness. Jill serves as an example of NOT having to have to go that route. It IS the entertainment business, though. Video killed the radio star and labels aren't going to let women forget that. Its best to be able to hear both sides and make an aware choice of which route to take rather than to think there's only one.

peppeken said:

She's beautiful in every way!
/peace Manki

Listen.....one of the points that seems 2 be missing from this discussion is that there is a MARKET for this trash. What is going on in our communities where this CRAP is actually purchased and tolerated?

I'd rather address the consumers. There are way more of them 2 deal with. If we focused on IMPORTANT things in our children like, EDUCATION, RESPECT, DECISION MAKING, etc.....the topic of this thread would NOT be an issue. I'd whip my son's ass if he came home looking, speaking, or acting like any of the CLOWNS I see in these video's.

DavidEye said:

Tell em Davideye

as long as there is a demand, there will be a supply.

Dayspring said:

But, it would be shortsighted to suggest that there aren't consequences for choices, and that certain choices usually result in certain consequences. It's not as if those consequences aren't without value, positive or negative.

Jill's about trying to get more young women to realize their own value, to preclude their making bad choices that could carry extremely negative consequences.

I hear what everyone's saying about the demand for the trash that often passes for music and music videos today. The point is about opening young women's eyes to alternatives, instead of accepting the trash that gets passed off as an inevitability for them.

And, market society or not, I think that's a good thing.

Dayspring said:

Oh ok, thanks for telling us that...God.

BlaqueKnight said:

Oh ok, cool. Just checkin', bro. Ya had me worried for a minute Agreed.