Ya know I'm just trying to start a little controversy.

VinnyM27 said:

Ok, so why is she so unpopular on the org? Home of top 40 haters... Case in point...

Alicia Keys (ain't doin a damn thing) 1 thread 90 replies 1,557 views

http://www.prince.org/msg/8/193076


India Arie (new album) 2 threads 121 views

http://www.prince.org/msg/8/193610
http://www.prince.org/msg/8/193739

She's just performed with PRINCE and there's not one, count em, one thread about them. If Alicica performed with him there with would be tons of locked thread titles

"Prince performs with Alicia, Tamar is Jealous?"
"Will Prince and Alicia make a song"
"Prince and Alicia Keys at the afterparty, Where's Mani?"

I started the Why is Prince hyping this Tamar chick thread (sorry Tamar, ur good) and dismissed the whole skin color issue. But if she looked like Vanity with her talent would we like her more...

Quite frankly I am getting confuse what some of you are calling "light skin" and "dark skin." I mean is Iman dark skin, she's darker than Janet, imo but she deems has one of the most "beautiful" in the world. Does one features come into,? i.e Iman features are not what alot of you would deem as "african" features , yet in certain parts of Africa, and Iman does come from East Africa, those type of features are the norm and it has nothing to do with have white ancestry...
[Edited 6/29/06 0:04am]

lilgish said:

Bingo!

I am almost 100% certain that if Tamar had looks like the Twinz, Beyonce or Alicia Keys and had the same level of talent that she has, the hate-fest against her would not even exist. No one would question why P was so "into" her. She would be welcomed with open arms, but because she doesn't she has become the 2006 version of Larry Graham. Society is more forgiving of a persons shortcomings if they have the kind of looks that society deems as beautiful.

Tamar can clearly sing circles around most of P's female proteges, but yet she gets dogged to hell, while the fans still fawn over the likes of Carmen, Vanity, Apollonia and Mayte.

P got his fans working up a Black Sweat trying to figure out what's so special about Tamar...a thick, dark-skinned sister...not bi-racial, latina or white, but straight up black with no chaser. He got her shaking that ass just like the Twinz, instead of sitting off to the side playing the keyboards like Rosie or Bonnie...and the fans can't handle it.





[Edited 6/28/06 21:23pm]

I really don't like Alicia, but I'm not surprised she's the bigger star. She's more dynamic to me, and her style is more mainstream. She has a bigger voice, and flashy piano player, not to mention has cool braids, and acts sexier.

I'm not too excited by India Arie either. She's okay, and I like her more than Alicia personally.

I don't know Susan Cagle, but she looks kind of different than India's style, more rock.

Stevie Wonder
Marvin Gaye
Donna Summer
The Jacksons
Diana Ross

Would they have all been more popular had they been lighter skinned?

BlaqueKnight said:

So how did Common get a deal?
Outkast?
D'Angelo?
Angie Stone?

Tamar can clearly sing circles around most of P's female proteges, but yet she gets dogged to hell, while the fans still fawn over the likes of Carmen, Vanity, Apollonia and Mayte.

P got his fans working up a Black Sweat trying to figure out what's so special about Tamar...a thick, dark-skinned sister...not bi-racial, latina or white, but straight up black with no chaser. He got her shaking that ass just like the Twinz, instead of sitting off to the side playing the keyboards like Rosie or Bonnie...and the fans can't handle it.

PurpleCharm said:

I disagree somewhat. Speaking from my own perspective, I don't really get into Tamar that much because I don't find Prince's music as interesting as the 80's stuff.

You're right, the 80's proteges, save for Sheila E., weren't that talented. But you could still hear Prince's work shine through on the records.

I'd love to hear Tamar work with some of the material that someone like, say, Jill Jones, recorded in the Paisley Park days.

Cloudbuster said:

I've already covered this. Niche markets.

Cloudbuster said:

I've already covered this. Niche markets.

BlaqueKnight said:

So how did Common get a deal?
Outkast?
D'Angelo?
Angie Stone?

I think Outkast have outgrown their niche. The same way Prince did with 1999 and Purple Rain.

namepeace said:

I agree with you. If Tamar had come out in the 80s and recorded Jill Jones' album, Prince fans would be all over that.

Maybe I'm out of the loop, but do people really fawn over the Carmen and Mayte records?

Stevie Wonder
Marvin Gaye
Donna Summer
The Jacksons
Diana Ross

Would they have all been more popular had they been lighter skinned?

sextonseven said:

People fawn over their looks...not their music, therefore they were tolerated. Their looks compsenated for their lack of talent If Tamar looked liked Vanity, it wouldn't matter that her music wasn't that great, she would not get the kind of venom spewed at her that she currently gets.

Cloudbuster said:

But even with all those artists, they weren't exactly blue'black either...The thing with many black artists back in the 70s/60s is that came across as quite afrocentric, regardless of their skin tone and that alone can come across to the mainstream as quite threatening; Stevie wonder with his braids, the J5 with their larger than life afros and Marvin with his short natural...

I wouldn't call Marvin that dark-skin and although Michael Jackson is obviously a completely different complexion, even back then the Jacksons weren't exactly as dark as Wesley Snipes.

whatsgoingon said:

Okay. But neither were any of them Beyonce light.

Cloudbuster said:

This phenomenon mostly applies to black woman and the thread starter specifically asked if India would be more popular if she were light-skinned, not whether she would be signed. Angie Stone will never have have Alicia Keys or Beyonce type celebrity and no one that looks like her will.

Cloudbuster said:

That's true, but then again the average black person in America is not Beyonce Light, just like the average African-American doesn't tend to be as dark as Wesley Snipes...

sextonseven said:

People fawn over their looks...not their music, therefore they were tolerated. Their looks compsenated for their lack of talent If Tamar looked liked Vanity, it wouldn't matter that her music wasn't that great, she would not get the kind of venom spewed at her that she currently gets.

whatsgoingon said:

You know, I'm not in denial about racism within the music industry. I'm well aware that it exists to some degree. But you have to take into account the rise of rap and hip-hop throughout the 80s and 90s. It is not impossible for black artists to become mega-successful these days. Yes, you could argue that the majority of them are male. But Missy Elliot? Mary J? They're not exactly your typical glamour girls, are they. Nor are they particularly light skinned. And yet they made it. So it can be done.

The biz loves its categories, though, and adheres to them religiously. The thugged-out rapper is popular. The caramel seductress is another. Missy skirted it all by being undeniably talented and cartoony -- she'd been in the biz for a minute and knew she'd need another angle. I look at Mary J. as a bit of an anomaly.

Many moons ago, Terence Trent D'arby was on Arsenio Hall's show and gave props to Seal.

"He's, like, the only brother out there who isn't the least bit androgynous," TTD said. That struck me. Consider all the brothers who've received major studio backing, and the overwhelming majority of them toyed with androgyny at least a little back then.

I think the biz has seen some progress. It's had to, because diversity works for the bottom line. Always has.

But think of -- to update Terence's point for today -- the vast majority of pop starlets (of all ethnicities and hues) who make a point of going blond...

ThreadBare said:

I'm with you, man. And I agree with everything you said.
My point is simply that though it may be rare, it's not impossible. Major talent can sometimes overcome the boundaries of what is considered a marketable image.
That is all.