Pagey said:

Unfortunately that sort of common sense is lost on certain people.

I give Springsteen Props for hanging the Game.I don't claim to Be a Big Fan of His but I Respect what He does.He has some Songs I like&whatnot.He has Legal Rights on His Stuff as well Dave Marsh in a Older Book I Read Mentioned this about Bruce.The Guy can play a Long time on Stage as well.His Concert Hype in His Hey day was like that of the Dave Matthews band of Today.except I could deal with Springsteen a bit more overall.I read the Book"House up on the Hills or something along those lines about How He really is Off-Stage&the Persona the Biz lined Him up with.He is a Very Down to Earth Cat.the trip out thing about Him is that While He is Big in Name He is also Kinda Forgotten in some Circles when you Mention 80's Mega Artists??you Mainly always Hear Michael jackson,Prince,Madonna,Janet Jackson,Van Halen,Lionel Richie,Bon Jovi,Sting,U2, but Bruce Springsteen isn't mentioned as Much as that Important Overall.that is Interesting Considering How Huge He once was? but anyway glad to see He is doing His thing&Wishing Him much Continued Success.

Only on a Prince fan would say Springsteen is "forgotten". He purposely stepped away from the biz to give attention to his family. Meanwhile Prince strives to regain his stance and is largely ignored by all except those selfsame fans.

Some perspective is missing. There's been a strong clamor for Springsteen. I can see that and I'm not a fan, in any sesne of the word.

Springsteen, unlike Prince and MJ, does not have a reclusive type of personality. He gets out in public and in interviews where he talks and acts like a normal human being. His image is totally bereft of contrivance. Prince might try reinventing himself as a someone real, for a change. Instead of this purple paisley cartoon he lives

IrishEcho said:

Well Irish(bwahaha) Echoe, Prince must actually be as bad as you say--since a recent famed naysayer who has your point of view tried to move some of his product from his premises---I presume he was going to put it in the trash ?

PFunkjazz said:

I said Kinda Forgotten not totally Forgotten.go to a Michael Jackson Spot&See How Much Springsteen gets mentioned? go to a Madonna Spot?Springsteen only 10 Years Back was still Riding His 80's Wave.after Guns&Roses dropped there 2 Albums then He tried that but He didn't have the same Results.then he tired that UnPlug then Flipped it into a Plugged in 93&there was a Little Hype.He did the Song"The Streets of Philadelphia" got the Oscar Nomination&the Oscar I think? anyway Dude wasn't away too Long.not to mention that Dinky Greatest Hits Album that Sony Came out with that only Focused on His Songs that Charted Number 4&Up.He Won't Ever Be Forgotten but Considering all the Hype that He has gotten over His Career One would think He would have Garth Brooks Numbers for His Career?MJ&Prince have Given Him Props but Neither One Sweat over Him as a Artist.Springsteen went away for a minute but Axel Rose has truly gone Away so it seems.

mistermaxxx said:

I don't agree with any of your "logic". Why would it matter how often Springsteen is mentioned on a Michael Jackson website? Or even a Pince website? All three serve a totally different demographic (well MJ and Prince overlap).

Madonna? Garth Brooks? Not even close.

Hang with a bunch of white folks 40-50 and you'll see Bruce's crowd. Don't let the old folks fool you. They are very rabid about their "Brooce". Especially cuz he's right where they are: raising a family and keeping things together.

Springsteen fans are cool. I run acros 'em at blues and jazz gigs. Guys tell me his shows are fantastic musical extravaganzas where he drops some new music and unexpected covers (he loves a Motown played with a NY rock edge). He tries not to gouge his fans at the ticket booth and will play locally for fundraisers in smaller venues as he did with the post 9/11 events.

Funny to harp on the chart success, when Bruce is the one of those that you mentioned that reaps bonafide critical praise for his work. The acousitc experiment of [bNEBRASKA[/b] was a bona fide salute to his folk roots. Naw it didn't blow out the charts, but it was heartfelt and solemn. If there was any artist who really and truly didn't care about awards, it would be Springsteen.

Littlefizzle said:

So, you never posted lol regarding any of my posts?

: lol : - is close enough in my opinion. LIAR!

Yes, your initial response on this thread had more to do with CalhounSquat than Prince, but we all know where here loyalties lie, don't we? Are you trying to get into her pants? You sure you want to go there? Nasty...

I love the way that people like you & rio selectively copy & paste & answer questions & observations that do not agree with your degree of a$$kissing & "logic." Even though I wasted my time answering rio's point blank "are you a racist question" some time ago with a "no," he still relies on that on every sorry response he makes to my posts. It's tiresome. It's also very telling of the fact that people you simply cannot handle being disagreed with. I am here to discuss Prince or in this case other musicians. You want to make ill-informed personal attacks & try to save face with even more insults & re-workings of your twisted logic when proven wrong. Sad.

Nothing at all about Prince's career "eats at me." I find it humorous watching him self destruct. Nor do I have an "agenda." Good way for you to dismiss your asscandy of an argument though, isn't it? Insulting me & then claiming that you have better things to do. You had better go back to the drawing board.

This is what you wrote:

"Short of signing with a major label again, the only thing to rectify this is to start one's own label to compete with the behemoths of the industry, a la Berry Gordy in the late 50s. And I doubt Prince has any interest in doing such a thing."

And it is also what I knew you wrote & what I replied to. You have no one to blame but yourself for its lack of relevance or your shortsightedness. Prince started his own label. Years ago. Whether or not it was the size of a Motown-sized or other major label, it was in competition with them the moment it began releasing records. Why is this so hard for you to understand? Prince may not have the interest, but he certainly does not have the skills. While we're debating each other's cleverness, you might actually want to make a point first! We can also compare Springsteen's media blitz with another indie artist (& a much more successful one than Prince) - Ani DiFranco. DiFranco has quite a rabid following herself & still manages to get a great deal of press coverage (more than Prince) & does a number of tv appearances when she's promoting a new release. All this without the backing of a major label too. Whaddya know? Your defense of Prince is sinking faster than the Titanic. You can continue trying to be a hero on this sinking ship, but there's a hole in your bucket. Oh & the whole Kelly Anne thing too - as if more than one person can't have soured on Prince? Get real. I miss her as much as anyone, though.

I've noticed that a number of Springsteen fans have made an appearance on this thread. That, at least, is a good sign.

by the way..good for him...seriously..anybody who can keep doing the same thing all these years and have a following..i think it's great...much more respectable than the britney's and nsync's of the world..so..my original post was serious...despite how i said it...

p.s. you've already started 3 threads today, so i guess you're lying about not starting 4 or 5 threads in a single day, because you're on your way to it now...

i can't find where you said you camped out for the movie..because as you will deny you closed and reopened your account...so all the previous posts are gone and the general discussion posts are gone for obvious reasons...

it's impossible to argue with a liar...as they will keep changing what they have said and done rather than admit they're wrong at all...

how does me replying because someone orgnoted me about a thread equate to me following you? you don't really make much sense when you try to argue and when you try to put people down...you just rephrase what they say to you, contradict yourself and use a lot of bathroom humor and playground name calling...

here's something i thought was funny:


so you come here..to make fun of prince...when this site doesn't belong to him..and chances are he doesn't read it...that makes good sense..make fun of somebody who is completely unaware that you are doing it..that's very brave of you..tell you what..i can give you the email of the npgmc if you really think prince deserves to be made fun of, why not show some courage and actually email them? that wouldn't be any fun for you would it? because you wouldn't have an audience then, and if you can't shock or offend someone then there's no point in saying any of the things you say, right?

so desperate for attention that you'll settle for negative attention...now you really wanna talk about pathetic?

oh well, i'll let you go..i'm sure you need to start a 'harry potter' thread now or something...

rio said:

Nope, not today. Maybe sometime in November, though. What I might do instead is look at your grand & glorious contribution to this site that makes you think you're such an authority figure. Chances are, the results will be wanting.

IrishEcho said:[quote]

Supernova said:

KellyEcho said:

No, I haven't. And if you had any sort of competent comprehension you'd see that I said:. Get it right, KellyEcho, or shut the bloody hell up. It was a response to Rio's post.

KellyEcho said:

Obviously it's close enough in your opinion. Though I wouldn't expect someone like you to know the difference between "lol" and in response to YOUR post by me.

KellyEcho said:

Sorry, KellyEcho, I don't swing that way. But maybe it's you who are trying to get in those pants of hers, considering you've been harrassing her for a while now.

KellyEcho said:

Right, and I love the way that ANYONE who disagrees with your idiotic rhetoric is automatically an asskisser. Unfortunately you're one of those people who can only see black and white, with no room for gray areas. If someone disagrees with the most minute point, idiots in cyberspace Princeland try to portray that as asskissing. It's an adolescently simplistic, easy way out. It doesn't fly, no matter how much a simplistic mentality such as yours wants to make it fly. It's time to leave your adolescence behind. I've criticized Prince's actions before, and will again if I feel the need, but not at the expense of agreeing to something as illogical and irrational as what you and many other knee-jerk reactionaries do on a daily basis.

KellyEcho said:

Tiresome is also you bringing up things to me that have nothing to do with anything I've said. Subterfuge is a tactic you're an expert at too, obviously.

KellyEcho said:

Let's keep this where it began: I called you on your BLATANT HYPOCRISY of harrassing CalhounSq when you so OBVIOUSLY couldn't take the one line (that was not a personal attack) that Rio responded to you with in this thread. THE FACT of the matter is that YOU can certainly dish it out, but YOU'RE A WUSS who cannot take it. I CALLED YOU ON IT, and now you're whining because you can't take that. It's the heat you constantly dish out to others, but are unable to endure. THAT is what's sad. THAT was my whole point. And THAT is something you're trying to obscure by bringing up crap that has nothing to do with it to deflect the attention away from yourself. Anyone with a brain can see that.

KellyEcho said:

Pay attention to this one closely, Echo: LOL! LOL! LOL! LOLOLOLOL!!! Now, THAT is definitely a response to your post, by me, with "lol".

KellyEcho said:

Sorry, KellyEcho, you're 100% wrong again. I never said I had better things to do. Stop pulling things out of your @$$ to deflect the attention from what exactly I said. If I had better things to do when I first responded I wouldn't have responded at all.

KellyEcho said:

Wrong again. It is NOT a Motown-like label. Berry Gordy had many, many, MANY artists signed to his label, he had A&R men/women on his staff, he had a charm school for his artist, he had a choreography staff to teach his artists choreography, etc. If you equate that with ANYTHING that Prince has ever done, you're more lost than I thought. Brush up on your Motown history if you really believe that ANYTHING that Prince has tried as an independent artist is the equivelent of that.

KellyEcho said:

Wrong again, Einstein. Ani DiFranco has NEVER had any type of media blitz on the level of anything Springsteen is afforded right now, or EVER in his career. She was NEVER on the covers of Time and Newsweek simultaneously, she has NEVER had more than one top 40 hit (which was a cover of her song). You were NOT talking about a "rabid following" to begin with, just another of your subterfuge tactics. A following that I'm well aware of, being a DiFranco supporter. And even she'd tell you you're wrong. Ani DiFranco IS a better business mind than Prince, or any other indie artist that I can think of. But it's his career, if he wants to undercut it to an extent, I'm not going to lose any sleep or peace over it. However, your equation comes up short again by comparing ANY of her promotional efforts with what Columbia/Sony has given Springsteen throughout the years.

Keep right on pulling crap out of the air that does nothing to reinforce your illogical points.

Thank you for the great laugh I just had! You really go out of your way for someone who doesn't matter to you at all or however you classify me. I could very easily address & refute each of your points, but I see no point in continuing with such a mental midget.

PFunkjazz said:

I think Maxx is saying that within other music circles (and sometimes the media), Springsteen isn't given much pub like other performers in the 80s that made it really big during that time. I always thought that too. When people bring up the big names that had huge albums in the 80s many times Springsteen is rarely mentioned. Although, that may have something to do with the fact that most Springsteen fans are baby boomers (including those in the media) who have supported him since the early-mid 70s when he made his earliest albums, a time that many, including me, think he did his best work. Springsteen is almost either 52 or 53, and so...it's almost like he's part of a different generation. That may be part of the mindset that those who cover him in the media have.

IrishEcho said:

That's a good copout Irishecho but it's obvious that youre inept as to any counterpoints smarter people have made.

rio said:

Yep. That's the way he'll deflect anything and everything.

Wolf said:

Inept? No, actually it's due more to the fact that I have time I'd like to spend outside of prince.org & these little fools aren't worth the effort, as much as they may think I am. They have sorry vendettas against me for reasons that they can't even honestly support, & I see no reason for continuing with them.

Before I get on with my actual life, I would however like to slightly alter an earlier statement I made about my reason for being here. It's not just to make fun of Prince. You Prince faNs also make such easy targets. Ta-ta.

Another good copout Irishecho. But your arguments didn't hold much water and you finally got stumped.

irishecho said:

...i'm not the one with the delusions concerning my own importance to this site or to the world...i don't claim to make any 'grand and glorious' contributions, nor do i feel the need to start threads wearing pink shirts, which 'lord of the rings' dvd people will purchase, or britney spears...

but hey it's your trip and if you 'get off' on putting people down and wasting time at a prince site after claiming to be through with him, then i hope it continues to be as fullfilling as you apparently find it now...

..anybody with half a brain can see how ridiculous you really are..and since you can't, then that says something about you...

"A media blitz, a well-publicized, promoted & clearly defined tour & a free concert in his hometown mean CDs selling left & right. 3 Manhattan stores - I'm talking big chains - were completely sold out before noon."


I respect Springsteen for his beliefs ("81 Shots) but, he is a "Grand American (caucasian) Icon"(whether he likes it, or not). It's time for a Veteran Rock Icon to be "over-hyped" and "propped-up" to show these Hip-Hop influenced Punk-rockers, Boy Bands and Rappers "how it's supposed to be done (*wink*)".


"Baby boomers" need a hero, even though he doesn't have the same selfish views as most of them.

White artists usually are celebrated more as they remain in the industry. They become rock royalty. They get their masters. They are allowed to live off of the past, even though they're voices are shot and cannot bang the way they used to.

It's The Elvis comeback of 1969. The Rolling Stones have done this sort of thing several times before. Another useless distraction.

If he's that good, let him earn the hype. Prince would destroy him live now...as in today...as in this time next year and so on.
[This message was edited Tue Aug 6 16:13:21 PDT 2002 by NGSPW7200]

Supernova said:

You're arguing media perceptions and chart sales as though it truly assesses musical significance and cultural impact. OK, so why aren't the same things true today? Brittney Spears and NSYNC are the most siginificant artist of late 90s because they had huge albums in that period.
Maybe it's out of your area cuz Bruce wasn't dance music. (LOL not even with "Dancing In the Dark") so he never had much opoprtunity to cut across demographics (BITUSA is the only Bruce I have). I'm not saying I felt his vibe much at all, but I know he was turning out a lot of stuff that a lot of folks paid to see and hear. Critics loved him too (some would say he saved rock & roll from being nothing but punk and disco). He sold a lot of records and concert tickets. Most importantly, he touched the hearts of a segment of the population with the songs he sang .

PFunkjazz said:

No, that's not what I'm doing at all. I'm saying he's sometimes not regarded within music circles or the media the same way that those who had huge albums in the 80s are. He's not usually regarded as an "80s icon", like some others, so to speak. Nothing more, nothing less. And I brought up the fact that his career started out long before the 80s, with different types of fans (as opposed to those in the 80s), adding to another theory as to why Mistermaxxx said he's sometimes "forgotten".


Not quite. Owning Born To Run wouldn't exactly jibe with that statement.

NGSPW7200 said:

Wait a minute now.

I gather you have never been to a Springsteen concert

Prince is a GREAT live artist, but Bruce is AT LEAST his equal if not better live.

Do me a favor go watch the Springsteen / Live in New York City DVD and then watch Rave Un2 the Year 2000 DVD and tell me which is better? They were both recorded around the same time, but Bruce clearly blows Prince away from both an energy standpoint and in musicianship.

Prince and Bruce are the two best live artists I have ever seen and I truthfully don't think one is better then the other, but man...if you diss Bruce that much you are in the dark.

Also are you trying to say that Bruce hasn't earned his hype? Man you need to buy a clue.

lovemachine said:

I've been trying to tell you people. Finally a real fan of Bruce's speaks up.

^5

Supernova said:

No offense, but you're just spouting mediaspeak. "80s icons". "regarded within music circles". This is all bs. I've never been to a concert, but I've read tour reviews and the word-of-mouth is consistent. He was a sign of the times (pun definitely intended)

Yes, Springsteen's career begins in '75 and stretches out into the late80s/early 90s to now. That's called "longevity". Artists with a bonafide artistic vision have it; those that don't can get up on AMERICAN IDOL.



Musically, the 80s was about a lot more than Prince, Madonna, MJ and sampling hip-hop grooves. Just like today's music has more to offer than teen pop. It's understandable MTV is a pretty blinding (albeit mind numbing) force and it was all new then. :wink

two points: rio, what happened? your soo above all this...i have never had to skip through your posts...its a sad day, *for me*...

second point: I sorta agree with a lot of what IrishEcho is saying here about Bruce...I think its fair to compare artists approach to making and distributing their music. afterall, this is a discussion forum...

finally...this album is a masterpiece..I have never really followed Bruce's career and bought the album cause it was der cheap at Borders...to my suprise, I LOVED IT...Bruce's gift for creating characters and telling stories completly blew me away...the strong lyric and melody writing on this album blow away anything i've heard within the last 15 years...I seriously found myself in tears listening to some of the songs...

with that said, this is all just my opinion...some of you all need to realize that and stop nitpicking (hint hint: supernova..please dont become wellbeyond2..still love ya though.. hehehehehe )

well, this is my post for the week...im out..

PFunkjazz said:

It seems like you have the impression that I'm saying Springsteen has no merit, or not as much merit as so and so, which couldn't be further from the truth. But since it's Mistermaxxx who brought it up I'll let him explain it in his own words, because if you can't get what I'm saying already, I doubt you ever will.


Actually it began a few years before that.


You're preaching to the choir.

Skletonkee said:

It's a total reach, and anyone who doesn't realize it just doesn't realize that the marketing of a performer on an indie label in no way equates to that of a major label performer.


Becoming Wellbeyond is much more admirable than becoming someone else giving watermelons/bananas comparisons. He's so one-sided about EVERYTHING, without any rational perspective... Much love to you too, darlin'.
[This message was edited Thu Aug 1 22:59:23 PDT 2002 by Supernova]

What's all the drama in here about Supernova? You shouldn't get so worked up...you know that's what IrishEcho wants.

divo02 said:

Actually I'm not worked up. I guess I should add more smiley faces and winks to show I'm not, but it didn't seem necessary at the time.

The whole beef ORIGINALLY I had with Echo is his hypocrisy toward Rio and CalhounSq. He likes to dish it out but can't take it. That's basically the gist of it. Everything else is ... peripheral stuff, since he doesn't know what he's talking about. {insert smiley here to show Divo I'm not worked up}



But seriously, I don't have any problems with anybody else in this thread that I've responded to.

Supernova said:

thank you SuperNova you got what I was saying.Springsteen at one time was Compared to Elvis.back in the 70's He was on Major Magazine Covers Before He even Blew Up so after He blows up in the 80's it didn't carry much overall Weight it seems.I saw Him in Concert back in 84&He is a Damn Good Live Act&Played Long.anyway for all the Juice it seemed He had He kinda got forgotten somewhere along the way.Sprngsteen got Punished for Being as Big as MJ,Prince&Madonna on Some Levels.the Press that Once Championed His Basic take on Music Making think he Sold His Soul for the Brass Ring.I Respect Him as a Artist but He is So Done after 1987 to me.that was the Last year I Seriously Paid Him much attention.for all the Love He is getting Now&for what He has Accomplished nobody talks about His Albums Being Important or His Awards Accept for Melissa Ethridge???

PFunkjazz said:

Please springsteen is so Pop it ain't even Funny&He knows all the Hits that are out.Springsteen gets so Much Hype why I don't know fully? what has He done that Bobby Womack&Richie Havens haven't?? you outta read that Book about Springsteen,the Eagles&I forgot Who else House on the Hill or something like that.Springsteen ain't the Cat Cutting the Grass for tips Selling a Lemonade Stand outside His House&washing Cars.He had some Moments but not the Kind you'd think with His MR.Patriotic stand,His Blue Collar Image,etc...

Wow,what a thread!