Yeah, but I think all of this is secondary to Oprah's apparent problem with black men. Sure, there are the safe, cuddly exceptions (shows with the Peetes, for instance, and the obligatory Denzel/Samuel L. Jackson episode). But, her fare usually gravitates toward the Cruises and Travoltas for a reason.

Samuel? Safe? That nigga says nigga more than most niggas say nigga! I thought she hated nigga-saying niggas.
[Edited 5/30/06 17:50pm]

BlaqueKnight said:

He is acceptable in the eyes of mainstream white America, though, so he is acceptable in her eyes as well.

VoicesCarry said:

Yeah, America loves hearing him curse so much, fans' input added a truckload of cursing dialogue to "Snakes on a Plane."

BlaqueKnight said:

She knows that her core audience (cheesecake-eating housewives) don't have much interest in hip hop or rap, and she refuses to challenge them. Instead we will get 20 more shows featuring some lily-white blonde with an eating disorder discussing how difficult it was for her to eat an apple and everyone at home can go "awwwww" and nod their heads and take another bite of the Ben & Jerrys in their lap.

Or maybe she will just have Tom Cruise on again.

Take your pick.[Edited 5/30/06 17:23pm]

Oprah represents a surrogate, the epitome of the "Mammy" stereotype for white America: the asexual, maternal surrogate.

ThreadBare said:

damn right!!! ain't nobody seen Stedman in a minute.

Dayspring said:

WTF is THAT supposed to mean? "ganging up?" WHAT? Nah, there's no ganging up going on here. Three different black men with three different reasons for saying what they said. They were all ASKED BY THE MEDIA FOR AN OPINION.
50 - an attention whore who likes to beef with celebs because it gets him attention, so he learned from his beef with Sam Jackson.
Ludicris - pissed off because his comments were edited out and he feels he was blindsidedly attacked by Oprah.
Ice Cube - has NEVER liked talk show hosts on the whole - remember
"they asked me if I liked Arsenio
about as much as the bicentennial"
Since he's been on Leno & Letterman and talked about his various projects but has never been invited on Oprah's show obviously has a grudge - and probably with good reason. Hip-hop has been one of the biggest cultural phenoms in the past couple of decades and yet has gone practically ignored by Oprah whereas everyone else has done a show on or acknowledged it in some form.
Oprah has been ignoring the big pink elephant in the middle of the room and before you Oprah-addicts rush to her defense think about it; its not an attack, its the TRUTH.

kisscamille said:

This is how I feel. Some of the rap music is very negative and she's allowed to have her opinion.

I'm confused why Oprah mentioned liking Mary J Blige in defense of the allegations?

Dayspring said:

WTF is THAT supposed to mean? "ganging up?" WHAT? Nah, there's no ganging up going on here. Three different black men with three different reasons for saying what they said. They were all ASKED BY THE MEDIA FOR AN OPINION.
50 - an attention whore who likes to beef with celebs because it gets him attention, so he learned from his beef with Sam Jackson.
Ludicris - pissed off because his comments were edited out and he feels he was blindsidedly attacked by Oprah.
Ice Cube - has NEVER liked talk show hosts on the whole - remember
"they asked me if I liked Arsenio
about as much as the bicentennial"
Since he's been on Leno & Letterman and talked about his various projects but has never been invited on Oprah's show obviously has a grudge - and probably with good reason. Hip-hop has been one of the biggest cultural phenoms in the past couple of decades and yet has gone practically ignored by Oprah whereas everyone else has done a show on or acknowledged it in some form.
Oprah has been ignoring the big pink elephant in the middle of the room and before you Oprah-addicts rush to her defense think about it; its not an attack, its the TRUTH.

CinisterCee said:

Probably for the same reason bigots invoke the "I have X number of (insert race/ethnic group here) friends, so I can't possibly be a racist....etc etc etc...

...I think Oprah is the phoniest person on the planet.....maybe its just me, but she kills me with the on command tears and seriously interested/concerned looks that she gives her guests.....

Look im no Oprah fan at all, just because she has the Worst fact checkers of any show in history. But why is she even getting into this issue, true the singling out of Ludacris about Rap music and lyrics was uncalled for, but so was her "racially" motivated trashing of that writer who made up details for his book, but no one was protesting over that. It also seems that the rappers joining in are all rappers that are struggling with sales or have something new coming out, which once again is all about FREE PROMO, just start an "useless" debate like this and watch your record sales go up. Im sure one of them will come out with a "Fuck Oprah" track and sell a million easily. Its funny how 50 cent puts down the Oprah audience, but in reality had it not been for "White Kids" trying to be Black his sales would be less than.....well Ice Cubes.

I dunno, seems like people are wanting to jump on her just because

She's 50+ years old (not the rap demographic), a news anchor turned talk show host (most of them are serious & nerdy or curious & dumb, she's a bit of the first 3 adjectives), has come from nothing & become extraordinarily successful, gives back in so many ways, is partial to women's causes... but she's not giddy about rap music & I'm supposed to be upset?

I don't get it, the way people are coming @ her about this. You know it's some bullshit when Oprah gotta be involved in a damn rap beef LAWD

I just think people are making it out to be SO serious for the sake of pub. As far as Cube...

If she even had Eve & Ceddy on for the Barbershop flicks: Eve is a woman (yes, a rapper too but I'm thinking she's had some empowering songs about women on her albums hopefully) so that's understandable why she'd want her on. Plus she was on in reference to her clothing line at some point also - Oprah is a clothes/shoes hound. And Cedric is a comedian, she clearly appreciates the genius of comedians. No Ice Cube, no biggie - the main star ain't the only one that can do pub for a flick.

Cube exec produced Black/White. She had the CAST on - this is what usually happens, shows talk to the CAST of a show NOT the producers & most often not the creators either. The Grey's Anatomy show she just did - I didn't see Shonda Rhimes (Black woman who created the show) on there & I would have loved to hear her talk But she only had the "Meredith" & "Dr. Burke" characters on (oh my, she had a Black man on? I thought she hated them! ) How many of you even watch Grey's? How many of you care that it's created by a Black woman?

I think people are blowing this out of proportion. Everybody's got a different agenda, I'm even losing focus on what the real issue even is w/ these guys. That she doesn't like rap personally? That she won't have rappers on her show? That she takes issue with some rap themes???

While I appreciate that Cube has come a mighty long way I really wouldn't trip if I never saw him sit on her couch. I mean this dude actually said in a magazine (and I quote), "I'm not the type of actor who is trying to do a whole bunch of different shit, you know what I mean?" He has little (if any) respect for the craft - maybe that's what she doesn't like about him (let's not forget, she's an actress as well). Or she could have just seen him give other tv interviews that were shit (I've seen a few of his ) & thought, "Ehh, I'll pass..." I think thats within her right...

Maybe she just doesn't respect Ice Cube as an artist - honestly, would that be SUCH a huge crime folks? I mean, really? I gotta stick up for Oprah on this one... typical, me being a woman & all huh?



.
[Edited 5/31/06 7:09am]

Look im no Oprah fan at all, just because she has the Worst fact checkers of any show in history. But why is she even getting into this issue, true the singling out of Ludacris about Rap music and lyrics was uncalled for, but so was her "racially" motivated trashing of that writer who made up details for his book, but no one was protesting over that. It also seems that the rappers joining in are all rappers that are struggling with sales or have something new coming out, which once again is all about FREE PROMO, just start an "useless" debate like this and watch your record sales go up. Im sure one of them will come out with a "Fuck Oprah" track and sell a million easily. Its funny how 50 cent puts down the Oprah audience, but in reality had it not been for "White Kids" trying to be Black his sales would be less than.....well Ice Cubes.

I don't get it, the way people are coming @ her about this. You know it's some bullshit when Oprah gotta be involved in a damn rap beef LAWD

I just think people are making it out to be SO serious for the sake of pub. As far as Cube...

CinisterCee said:

No one is debating that homie...50 should stay quiet...His comments were more humorous than anything else (and truthful in terms of Oprah's mostly middle-age white woman statement)...But Ludacris and Ice Cube however have a valid point...This is more about Oprah brushing the entire rap community with one uptight, holier-than-thou brush...When Ludacris is appearing on Oprah for his role in Crash, he's on there as an actor, not an MC...And he should be treated as such...Instead, Oprah can't get off of her high horse to understand this...And the same goes for Ice Cube...dude had a lot to do with success of that film; yet he was boxed out...It is what it is...

CalhounSq said:

I believe media outlets ARE trying to make this into a big thing, because "black vs. black" debates are seen as entertaining to a lot of editors and news directors. (which is a whole other discussion)

I have no problem with Oprah having risen to her place in history, philanthropy and celebrity. I applaud that. I could learn a lot from her, I'm sure.

I just don't get the sense that someone who says she's so concerned with improving the human spirit and with building community really cares that much for black men in general.

I understand what she's been through. But, between the tone of her early shows (which built up her market by bashing men) and her contemporary dismissal of certain celebrities who happen to be younger, black men, I don't think she cares that much about giving us a fair shake. And, I think that's why those celebs are saying what they're saying. (Especially when you consider Luda's points about his comments being edited out.)

murph said:

Oprah is SOOO holier than thou..I remember the way she treated gospel artist Kirk Franklin when he was on her show admitting he had a problem with porn addiction. She talked down to him. I guess mercy isn't in her vocabulary...

ThreadBare said:

Okay, I hear the "man bashing" thing A LOT & I'm genuinely curious - did her shows really & truly "BASH" men or was she, a female talk show host, simply presenting topics from a female point of view?? In other words, were things being discussed the way a group of women would discuss them in general? Or do you feel like there's a particular venom coming from HER?

I feel like guys are really reacting to the fact that the show may have brought up topics (like cheating, etc.) that men typically don't want discussed & women started watching in droves, maybe even started talking more openly about male/female issues since they were on the table - God forbid!

But refresh my memory please - I just don't remember thinking, "this broad HATES MEN!!" in those early years

Perhaps *I* have a man bashing problem myself?? Is that why I don't see it??



Oh, and she did have Kanye's big headed ass on to talk & perform. I know it's just one example but nobody seems to be remembering that one

CalhounSq said:

The Kanye appearance was news to me. I'm open to being wrong on this.

As for men-bashing, yeah, her early shows were fairly one-sided. I've no trouble representing reality, but try to be be fair in that presentation. Maybe she's felt she has been. I don't see balance with her. But, it's her show. And, she gets to decide which actor, rapper, director, producer, etc. gets to be on it.

It's just that excluding certain elements and dismissing them amounts to dismissing their complexity and complications. Brothers get that enough from society at large. We expect a bit more understanding and acceptance from someone who SAYS she represents our community.

And, mind you, I get into this type of discussion quite a bit with my female friends. I think black men, in particular, get a fairly unfair way of it sometimes, especially in church.

Perhaps *I* have a man bashing problem myself?? Is that why I don't see it??

I don't see balance with her.
Me either.


I think black men, in particular, get a fairly unfair way of it sometimes, especially in church.

CalhounSq said:

Confession is the road to recovery, dahling.

BlaqueKnight said:

STFU!!!