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PrintableEmancipationLover said: coolcat said:
728huey said:
Some of your people still didn't get my original post. When I was growing up as a child in the late 1970's and early 1980's, I didn't spend a whole lot of time listening to the intracacies of Buddy Holly, Jerry Lee Lewis and Chuck Berry. I was just too busy listening to pop and disco records. Why would any of you expect someone like Katharine McPhee to know the history of Led Zeppelin, David Bowie and The Clash when her obvious musical stylings trend towards Barbara Streisand, Celine Dion and Mariah Carey? People are acting way too snobbish on this thread. This is just a pop show. Not everyone listens to music as intently as we do at the Org.
 I understood your post, and I agree with you. And I disagree. That's like saying young football/soccer players don't have to know who Franz Beckenbauer or Pele are. Or a tennis professional doesn't have to know who Ivan Lendl is. For a private person, that doesn't have to mean jackshit, but if you want to make (a lot of) money in a certain business, I expect some professionalism. I don't expect her to get a complete Meat Loaf CD collection, but 3 minutes of her extremely important time spent on google isn't too much to ask imo. No, this isn't the right analogy. The sports analogy assumes that all music genres are exactly the same, which they are not. A more proper analogy would be about actors, one set which are Broadway/theatre performers, another which are Hollywood movie stars, another which are prime time television stars, and last, a group of daytime television stars. All of these people are actors, yet few people would directly compare individuals within these genres to each other. If someone went into Hollywood to become the next action star like Tom Cruise or Bruce Willis, would you tell them that they need to do a stage production of "Cats" or "Rent" in order to get into action movies? If some young actress wanted to get onto daytime televison, does she really need to know how to do Hollywood horror films? Not really, but it would certainly help. And why would a wannabe TV sitcom performer need to know how to do porn? (Yes, pornstars are "actors" too, but you don't see them heading to Broadway.) If anything, the fact that these contestants on American Idol have to perform different genres during theme weeks means that they are probably exposed to more different genres of music than the average alt-rock or hip hop group who signs a conventional record deal. I'd be willing to bet that if you asked younger atrists like Bow Wow, Ciara, Rhianna, or Chris Brown whether they spent any time listening to David Bowie, Deep Purple, Alice In Chains, or Conway Twitty growing up, and you'll probably get blank stares from them. | |
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728huey said: I'd be willing to bet that if you asked younger atrists like Bow Wow, Ciara, Rhianna, or Chris Brown whether they spent any time listening to David Bowie, Deep Purple, Alice In Chains, or Conway Twitty growing up, and you'll probably get blank stares from them.
That would probably help explain why their music is such shit. | |
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EmancipationLover said: coolcat said: I understood your post, and I agree with you. And I disagree. That's like saying young football/soccer players don't have to know who Franz Beckenbauer or Pele are. Or a tennis professional doesn't have to know who Ivan Lendl is. For a private person, that doesn't have to mean jackshit, but if you want to make (a lot of) money in a certain business, I expect some professionalism. I don't expect her to get a complete Meat Loaf CD collection, but 3 minutes of her extremely important time spent on google isn't too much to ask imo. sorry, but if someone wants to play soccer they don't need to know who Franz Beckenbauer or Pele are. they only need to know how to play soccer. there is a big difference between being a consumer of entertainment/sports/media and being a producer of it. to count yourself as a knowledgeable consumer of music, you should probably know who Meat Loaf is. to be a pop singer, you only need to be able to sing (and you don't always even know that). to count yourself as a knowledgeable soccer fan, you should know who Pele is. if you want to be a soccer player, all you need to do is be good at playing soccer. everything else is irrelevant. | |
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728huey said: EmancipationLover said:
coolcat said:
And I disagree. That's like saying young football/soccer players don't have to know who Franz Beckenbauer or Pele are. Or a tennis professional doesn't have to know who Ivan Lendl is. For a private person, that doesn't have to mean jackshit, but if you want to make (a lot of) money in a certain business, I expect some professionalism. I don't expect her to get a complete Meat Loaf CD collection, but 3 minutes of her extremely important time spent on google isn't too much to ask imo. No, this isn't the right analogy. The sports analogy assumes that all music genres are exactly the same, which they are not. A more proper analogy would be about actors, one set which are Broadway/theatre performers, another which are Hollywood movie stars, another which are prime time television stars, and last, a group of daytime television stars. All of these people are actors, yet few people would directly compare individuals within these genres to each other. If someone went into Hollywood to become the next action star like Tom Cruise or Bruce Willis, would you tell them that they need to do a stage production of "Cats" or "Rent" in order to get into action movies? If some young actress wanted to get onto daytime televison, does she really need to know how to do Hollywood horror films? Not really, but it would certainly help. And why would a wannabe TV sitcom performer need to know how to do porn? (Yes, pornstars are "actors" too, but you don't see them heading to Broadway.) If anything, the fact that these contestants on American Idol have to perform different genres during theme weeks means that they are probably exposed to more different genres of music than the average alt-rock or hip hop group who signs a conventional record deal. I'd be willing to bet that if you asked younger atrists like Bow Wow, Ciara, Rhianna, or Chris Brown whether they spent any time listening to David Bowie, Deep Purple, Alice In Chains, or Conway Twitty growing up, and you'll probably get blank stares from them. But that girl performed with Meat Loaf, didn't she? So she shouldn't know who the fat guy right next to her is though she shares a stage with him on a TV program with 30 million viewers? And I don't say she should listen to all his music. But she could at least find out who in the world he is. Maybe the guys you listed don't know a single song by Bowie, but they will for sure know who he is (if not, shame on them), like what genre of music he does etc. Allegedly, Prince didn't know "While My Guitar Gently Weeps" before the RRHOF performance, but he for sure knew who the Beatles and George Harrison were. My point is not that the girl didn't know Meat Loaf (hell, my Mom probably doesn't know Meat Loaf either), but that she doesn't even have the professionalism to find a little info about him when she duets with him! We're living in the age of the internet, and I can't imagine that she never heard of google or wikipedia. The easier it is to obtain infos, the sloppier people get with it (obviously). If you're a private person, that doesn't matter too much, but we're talking about the professional level here.  | |
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Dayspring said: EmancipationLover said: And I disagree. That's like saying young football/soccer players don't have to know who Franz Beckenbauer or Pele are. Or a tennis professional doesn't have to know who Ivan Lendl is. For a private person, that doesn't have to mean jackshit, but if you want to make (a lot of) money in a certain business, I expect some professionalism. I don't expect her to get a complete Meat Loaf CD collection, but 3 minutes of her extremely important time spent on google isn't too much to ask imo. sorry, but if someone wants to play soccer they don't need to know who Franz Beckenbauer or Pele are. they only need to know how to play soccer. there is a big difference between being a consumer of entertainment/sports/media and being a producer of it. to count yourself as a knowledgeable consumer of music, you should probably know who Meat Loaf is. to be a pop singer, you only need to be able to sing (and you don't always even know that). to count yourself as a knowledgeable soccer fan, you should know who Pele is. if you want to be a soccer player, all you need to do is be good at playing soccer. everything else is irrelevant. And that's where we will have agree to disagree. I strongly believe in the importance of theory AND practice. So, as a soccer player, you shouldn't only know how to play, but also about tactics, different systems and all that. If you really do that, the name Beckenbauer will appear sooner or later in front of your eyes. If you want to be a singer, I think that you should know a little bit about music theory and history and not reduce yourself to a little stage puppet. But, different people will have different opinions on that. I'd say that one reason for the sad state of pop music today also is the result of people not knowing their stuff - and that accounts for fans/customers AND performers imo. | |
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EmancipationLover said: Dayspring said: sorry, but if someone wants to play soccer they don't need to know who Franz Beckenbauer or Pele are. they only need to know how to play soccer. there is a big difference between being a consumer of entertainment/sports/media and being a producer of it. to count yourself as a knowledgeable consumer of music, you should probably know who Meat Loaf is. to be a pop singer, you only need to be able to sing (and you don't always even know that). to count yourself as a knowledgeable soccer fan, you should know who Pele is. if you want to be a soccer player, all you need to do is be good at playing soccer. everything else is irrelevant. And that's where we will have agree to disagree. I strongly believe in the importance of theory AND practice. So, as a soccer player, you shouldn't only know how to play, but also about tactics, different systems and all that. If you really do that, the name Beckenbauer will appear sooner or later in front of your eyes. If you want to be a singer, I think that you should know a little bit about music theory and history and not reduce yourself to a little stage puppet. But, different people will have different opinions on that. I'd say that one reason for the sad state of pop music today also is the result of people not knowing their stuff - and that accounts for fans/customers AND performers imo. and here i thought the point of pop music was to listen to something pleasant and have some fun in life.  | |
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Dayspring said: EmancipationLover said: And that's where we will have agree to disagree. I strongly believe in the importance of theory AND practice. So, as a soccer player, you shouldn't only know how to play, but also about tactics, different systems and all that. If you really do that, the name Beckenbauer will appear sooner or later in front of your eyes. If you want to be a singer, I think that you should know a little bit about music theory and history and not reduce yourself to a little stage puppet. But, different people will have different opinions on that. I'd say that one reason for the sad state of pop music today also is the result of people not knowing their stuff - and that accounts for fans/customers AND performers imo. and here i thought the point of pop music was to listen to something pleasant and have some fun in life. Yes, but I'm the kind of person who needs a certain minimum level of quality even in pop music to enjoy it. It's like a Hamburger imo: it may be simple food, but that doesn't mean it can be done in a shitty way. Even for a Hamburger, the chef needs certain basic skills to make a decent one. | |
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EmancipationLover said: Dayspring said: and here i thought the point of pop music was to listen to something pleasant and have some fun in life. Yes, but I'm the kind of person who needs a certain minimum level of quality even in pop music to enjoy it. It's like a Hamburger imo: it may be simple food, but that doesn't mean it can be done in a shitty way. Even for a Hamburger, the chef needs certain basic skills to make a decent one. actually, the entire point of popular music is that you don't a need a knowledge of music theory and history to make it or listen to it. in the last couple of decades, we've erroniously decided to elevate it as high art, but the entire point of it as a medium is entertainment for the masses. | |
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Dayspring said: EmancipationLover said: Yes, but I'm the kind of person who needs a certain minimum level of quality even in pop music to enjoy it. It's like a Hamburger imo: it may be simple food, but that doesn't mean it can be done in a shitty way. Even for a Hamburger, the chef needs certain basic skills to make a decent one. actually, the entire point of popular music is that you don't a need a knowledge of music theory and history to make it or listen to it. in the last couple of decades, we've erroniously decided to elevate it as high art, but the entire point of it as a medium is entertainment for the masses. That's correct (I'm for sure not one of those who see pop music as "high art" btw), but even if you stick to the good old three chord formula, you at least have to know those three chords. To stick with the Hamburger analogy: I'm aware that Hamburgers are junk food, but from time to time I like them. I know it's not some fancy dish in a three-star restaurant highlighted in the Michelin guide, but that doesn't mean that I have to accept any kind of crap quality when I go and buy a burger. And, yes, I've had Hamburgers with huge differences in quality. I've heard by several people that they are not satisfied with today's pop music and rarely listen to the radio anymore and only randomly buy CD's. Not all those people are pop music snobs, so there must be a reason for that. Is it only that we all are getting older and can't relate to modern pop music anymore? Or could there really be a drop in quality? | |
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EmancipationLover said: Dayspring said: actually, the entire point of popular music is that you don't a need a knowledge of music theory and history to make it or listen to it. in the last couple of decades, we've erroniously decided to elevate it as high art, but the entire point of it as a medium is entertainment for the masses. That's correct (I'm for sure not one of those who see pop music as "high art" btw), but even if you stick to the good old three chord formula, you at least have to know those three chords. To stick with the Hamburger analogy: I'm aware that Hamburgers are junk food, but from time to time I like them. I know it's not some fancy dish in a three-star restaurant highlighted in the Michelin guide, but that doesn't mean that I have to accept any kind of crap quality when I go and buy a burger. And, yes, I've had Hamburgers with huge differences in quality. at the same time, to enjoy a hamburger, you don't need to know who invented it, how to butcher a cow, or even how to cook it. | |
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Dayspring said: EmancipationLover said: That's correct (I'm for sure not one of those who see pop music as "high art" btw), but even if you stick to the good old three chord formula, you at least have to know those three chords. To stick with the Hamburger analogy: I'm aware that Hamburgers are junk food, but from time to time I like them. I know it's not some fancy dish in a three-star restaurant highlighted in the Michelin guide, but that doesn't mean that I have to accept any kind of crap quality when I go and buy a burger. And, yes, I've had Hamburgers with huge differences in quality. at the same time, to enjoy a hamburger, you don't need to know who invented it, how to butcher a cow, or even how to cook it. Yes and no. If you have basic cooking skills yourself, your sense of small differences becomes much more pronounced. And the popstar is not the one to consume the Hamburger, it's the one to make it. As a chef, you should know how to cook it (and a proper knowledge about beef quality won't do the final product any harm either). | |
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EmancipationLover said: Dayspring said: at the same time, to enjoy a hamburger, you don't need to know who invented it, how to butcher a cow, or even how to cook it. Yes and no. If you have basic cooking skills yourself, your sense of small differences becomes much more pronounced. And the popstar is not the one to consume the Hamburger, it's the one to make it. As a chef, you should know how to cook it (and a proper knowledge about beef quality won't do the final product any harm either). so, anyway, back to the original point. Katharine McPhee clearly doesn't need to know who Meat Loaf is to sing a song. correct? | |
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Dayspring said: EmancipationLover said: Yes and no. If you have basic cooking skills yourself, your sense of small differences becomes much more pronounced. And the popstar is not the one to consume the Hamburger, it's the one to make it. As a chef, you should know how to cook it (and a proper knowledge about beef quality won't do the final product any harm either). so, anyway, back to the original point. Katharine McPhee clearly doesn't need to know who Meat Loaf is to sing a song. correct? That's to a certain degree correct. But if she wants to leave a proper, professional impression on a music show, she'd better not put herself in the place to say "I think he was really big in the 70's" like some little girl. And, to perform the song, it won't do her any harm to know Meat Loaf's music (just a bit of it - the variety isn't that impressive anyway  ), so she can decide if she wants to perform the song in a way more close to the original or if she wants to give it a different direction and make it (to a certain degree) her own. All that is much easier if you know the background of the person who originally recorded the song and his musical direction. That's what I personally would appreciate as a professional approach. | |
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EmancipationLover said: Dayspring said: so, anyway, back to the original point. Katharine McPhee clearly doesn't need to know who Meat Loaf is to sing a song. correct? That's to a certain degree correct. But if she wants to leave a proper, professional impression on a music show, she'd better not put herself in the place to say "I think he was really big in the 70's" like some little girl. And, to perform the song, it won't do her any harm to know Meat Loaf's music (just a bit of it - the variety isn't that impressive anyway ), so she can decide if she wants to perform the song in a way more close to the original or if she wants to give it a different direction and make it (to a certain degree) her own. All that is much easier if you know the background of the person who originally recorded the song and his musical direction. That's what I personally would appreciate as a professional approach.no. you don't get it. all she has to do is sing the song. her life and career and talent are not enriched by knowing anything about Meat Loaf. end of story. you think Prince has/had some great knowledge of Wild Cherry beyond "they had that big song in the 70's" before he played "Play That Funky Music" last night in Vegas? | |
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Dayspring said: EmancipationLover said: That's to a certain degree correct. But if she wants to leave a proper, professional impression on a music show, she'd better not put herself in the place to say "I think he was really big in the 70's" like some little girl. And, to perform the song, it won't do her any harm to know Meat Loaf's music (just a bit of it - the variety isn't that impressive anyway ), so she can decide if she wants to perform the song in a way more close to the original or if she wants to give it a different direction and make it (to a certain degree) her own. All that is much easier if you know the background of the person who originally recorded the song and his musical direction. That's what I personally would appreciate as a professional approach.no. you don't get it. all she has to do is sing the song. her life and career and talent are not enriched by knowing anything about Meat Loaf. end of story. you think Prince has/had some great knowledge of Wild Cherry beyond "they had that big song in the 70's" before he played "Play That Funky Music" last night in Vegas? You're the one not to get it. To technically sing it, she only needs the sheet music (and, knowing those shows, probably a vocal coach), and that's it. That's not what I mean. Knowledge about music helps you to grow as a performer, so it shouldn't be dismissed that easily. Unfortunately, knowledge and education are often seen as unnecessary these days to do something, but you never, never know enough. Life is constant learning. And, to answer your question, I'm sure Mr. Nelson knows a lot about 70's funk music.
Let's just agree to disagree. I'm about to log off and go to bed anyway. Oh, and btw, I'd argue that Meat Loaf indeed doesn't enrich your life (he's just not my cup of tea). But that was never the point...  | |
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EmancipationLover said: Dayspring said: no. you don't get it. all she has to do is sing the song. her life and career and talent are not enriched by knowing anything about Meat Loaf. end of story. you think Prince has/had some great knowledge of Wild Cherry beyond "they had that big song in the 70's" before he played "Play That Funky Music" last night in Vegas? You're the one not to get it. To technically sing it, she only needs the sheet music (and, knowing those shows, probably a vocal coach), and that's it.yes. exactly. that's it. that's what she's there to do. there is nothing beyond that relevant to her, AI, or popular music in general. That's not what I mean. Knowledge about music helps you to grow as a performer, so it shouldn't be dismissed that easily. Unfortunately, knowledge and education are often seen as unnecessary these days to do something, but you never, never know enough. Life is constant learning. And, to answer your question, I'm sure Mr. Nelson knows a lot about 70's funk music.
honestly, who gives a fuck if Katharine McPhee knows jackshit about anything? 
she didn't win. but at the same time, why's it any of our business what she does or doesn't know. she's up there to sing a song and win the contest. beyond this (if she has a further career), her job will only be to sing a song. if you like her or her music or if you don't, what does that have to do with whether or not she knows anything at all about the history of popular music? if the end result is something you like, what difference does it make what the backstory of what went into it is? if you don't, then you don't and this entire exercise is even more meaningless. people worry way too much about "cred" when they should just enjoy things. that's the entire point of popular music. if you want cred, go listen to jazz or classical. | |
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in fact, i would perhaps go so far as to say that it's BETTER for a popular artist to know nothing about music's past. popular music is very much about the NOW. when you have such slavish devotion to what went before, you end up with all of these bands out there right now that basically exist to send valentines to Duran Duran, the Cure, Joy Division, etc. and r&b acts in the 90's that only knew how to sing Prince seduction ballads.
popular music is about the new. the now. the short-term future. oh, not to mention entertaining and selling CD's. because it's disposable and not necessarily meant to stick around. that's why it's pop. | |
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Dayspring said:[quote] EmancipationLover said: yes. exactly. that's it. that's what she's there to do. there is nothing beyond that relevant to her, AI, or popular music in general. That's not what I mean. Knowledge about music helps you to grow as a performer, so it shouldn't be dismissed that easily. Unfortunately, knowledge and education are often seen as unnecessary these days to do something, but you never, never know enough. Life is constant learning. And, to answer your question, I'm sure Mr. Nelson knows a lot about 70's funk music.
honestly, who gives a fuck if Katharine McPhee knows jackshit about anything?
she didn't win. but at the same time, why's it any of our business what she does or doesn't know. she's up there to sing a song and win the contest. beyond this (if she has a further career), her job will only be to sing a song. if you like her or her music or if you don't, what does that have to do with whether or not she knows anything at all about the history of popular music? if the end result is something you like, what difference does it make what the backstory of what went into it is? if you don't, then you don't and this entire exercise is even more meaningless. people worry way too much about "cred" when they should just enjoy things. that's the entire point of popular music. if you want cred, go listen to jazz or classical. She said that in public (obviously), so if we want it to be our business on here, it's our good right. I still say that her knowledge about music will probably affect her further work, if she ever will have a career. More educated about music - more critical with music (including her own) - better quality of her work. Simple as that. As I might have to hear her stuff on the radio, it somehow matters to me, though her career might tank. Other than that, I don't give a shit about her. I just see her naive attitude as some kind of symptom of a more general problem, and that's going on my nerves. That's all. I won't have a sleepless night because some AI contestant doesn't know Meat Loaf. I can tell you that.
Btw, I never looked for "cred". That's something for Hip Hop people. And I listen to classical music most of my time. But that doesn't mean that my eyes have to explode when I have to listen to modern day radio, just because no one can make a proper song anymore. | |
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Dayspring said: in fact, i would perhaps go so far as to say that it's BETTER for a popular artist to know nothing about music's past. popular music is very much about the NOW. when you have such slavish devotion to what went before, you end up with all of these bands out there right now that basically exist to send valentines to Duran Duran, the Cure, Joy Division, etc. and r&b acts in the 90's that only knew how to sing Prince seduction ballads.
popular music is about the new. the now. the short-term future. oh, not to mention entertaining and selling CD's. because it's disposable and not necessarily meant to stick around. that's why it's pop. The famous Schoenberg word comes to my mind here: "If you want to compose like me, you have to know Bach, Mozart, Beethoven and Wagner first." But that's for music on a different level, of course. The problem I see with your suggestion is that the here and now never can be completely seen and understood without the past. Or how do you make sure that your fancy new CD you just recorded and you want to be new and refreshing and modern doesn't sound like a Duran Duran tribute album if you never listened to Duran Duran?  | |
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wow, ok yall obviously take this a tad more serious than me.
i feel the points on here, but as far as i'm concerened knowledge (not just musical knowledge but all kinds) dont mean jackshit if u dont know how to apply it. so katherine could be an expert on meatloaf, bach, jimi hendrix and billie holiday, but it aint gonna do a damn thing for her or her career if she cant apply it to what shes doing. as far as her researching or not researching meatloaf, ahh whatever. atleast she was honest about it and spoke truthfully and n e way it was an interesting experience for her and she probably took something away w/ her from the experience, which i think, helps u more than reading someones bio or listening to a song or two just because Yesterday is dead...tomorrow hasnt arrived yet....i have just ONE day...
...And i'm gonna be groovy in it! | |
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RipHer2Shreds said: Dayspring said: oh yeah, because Meat Loaf is an essential part of every 21 year old's cd collection in 2006. I know. These kids aren't aware of anyone in the music industry. Even Stevie Wonder. They were all like, "I know who he is, but I'm not familiar with all his music." That idiot Chris said, "I knew the Red Hot Chili Pepper's version of Higher Ground, but his (Stevie's) is good, too!"  yeah i took offense that he didn't know shit about stevie's ORIGINAL version...!!! them dumbass kids... I will forever love and miss you...my sweet Prince. | |
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missfee said: RipHer2Shreds said:
Dayspring said:
oh yeah, because Meat Loaf is an essential part of every 21 year old's cd collection in 2006. I know. These kids aren't aware of anyone in the music industry. Even Stevie Wonder. They were all like, "I know who he is, but I'm not familiar with all his music." That idiot Chris said, "I knew the Red Hot Chili Pepper's version of Higher Ground, but his (Stevie's) is good, too!"
yeah i took offense that he didn't know shit about stevie's ORIGINAL version...!!! them dumbass kids... What makes you think that he should have known the original version of the song? He wasn't even born when Stevie Wonder did the original version, he grew up in the South, where they probably didn't play a lot of Stevie on rock stations, and his style was more inclined towards rock anyway. Should we look down at all of the music fans who are not die-hard Prince fans for assuming that Chaka Kahn originally sang "I Feel For You" or Sinead O'Connor originally sang "Nothing Compares 2 U"? Should we chastize all those people who like "Everytime You Go Away" because they didn't know that Paul Young was doing a cover of a Hall & Oates song? Are all of the UB40 fans a bunch of morons if they don't know that "Red Red Wine" was a Neil Diamond song? I think not. In all of the cases I mentioned, the original songs were not released as singles, but the cover songs were, and they became huge hits for those artists. Plus these are just kids singing these songs on TV. You need to cut the kids some slack. Instead of just bashing these kids for not being music afficiandos, why don't you direct yoyur wrath at the city, county and state governments who cut music classes and programs from the school curricula, Clear Channel for progamming the same current music hits over and over and not allowing any mixed programming of classic hits on top 40 stations, MTV for throwing crap like Jackass, My Super Sweet Sixteen, Tiara Girls, Room Raiders, and the countless Real World marathons on TV instead of music videos, and VH1 for all of their CelebReality shows without showing why they became celebrities in the first place. | |
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missfee said: RipHer2Shreds said: I know. These kids aren't aware of anyone in the music industry. Even Stevie Wonder. They were all like, "I know who he is, but I'm not familiar with all his music." That idiot Chris said, "I knew the Red Hot Chili Pepper's version of Higher Ground, but his (Stevie's) is good, too!" yeah i took offense that he didn't know shit about stevie's ORIGINAL version...!!! them dumbass kids... you took offense? really? wow. you're way to deep into trivial shit. | |
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728huey said: missfee said:
RipHer2Shreds said:
yeah i took offense that he didn't know shit about stevie's ORIGINAL version...!!! them dumbass kids... What makes you think that he should have known the original version of the song? He wasn't even born when Stevie Wonder did the original version, he grew up in the South, where they probably didn't play a lot of Stevie on rock stations, and his style was more inclined towards rock anyway. Should we look down at all of the music fans who are not die-hard Prince fans for assuming that Chaka Kahn originally sang "I Feel For You" or Sinead O'Connor originally sang "Nothing Compares 2 U"? Should we chastize all those people who like "Everytime You Go Away" because they didn't know that Paul Young was doing a cover of a Hall & Oates song? Are all of the UB40 fans a bunch of morons if they don't know that "Red Red Wine" was a Neil Diamond song? I think not. In all of the cases I mentioned, the original songs were not released as singles, but the cover songs were, and they became huge hits for those artists. Plus these are just kids singing these songs on TV. You need to cut the kids some slack. Instead of just bashing these kids for not being music afficiandos, why don't you direct yoyur wrath at the city, county and state governments who cut music classes and programs from the school curricula, Clear Channel for progamming the same current music hits over and over and not allowing any mixed programming of classic hits on top 40 stations, MTV for throwing crap like Jackass, My Super Sweet Sixteen, Tiara Girls, Room Raiders, and the countless Real World marathons on TV instead of music videos, and VH1 for all of their CelebReality shows without showing why they became celebrities in the first place.  Yesterday is dead...tomorrow hasnt arrived yet....i have just ONE day...
...And i'm gonna be groovy in it! | |
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728huey said: missfee said:
RipHer2Shreds said:
yeah i took offense that he didn't know shit about stevie's ORIGINAL version...!!! them dumbass kids... What makes you think that he should have known the original version of the song? He wasn't even born when Stevie Wonder did the original version, he grew up in the South, where they probably didn't play a lot of Stevie on rock stations, and his style was more inclined towards rock anyway. Should we look down at all of the music fans who are not die-hard Prince fans for assuming that Chaka Kahn originally sang "I Feel For You" or Sinead O'Connor originally sang "Nothing Compares 2 U"? Should we chastize all those people who like "Everytime You Go Away" because they didn't know that Paul Young was doing a cover of a Hall & Oates song? Are all of the UB40 fans a bunch of morons if they don't know that "Red Red Wine" was a Neil Diamond song? I think not. In all of the cases I mentioned, the original songs were not released as singles, but the cover songs were, and they became huge hits for those artists. Plus these are just kids singing these songs on TV. You need to cut the kids some slack. Instead of just bashing these kids for not being music afficiandos, why don't you direct yoyur wrath at the city, county and state governments who cut music classes and programs from the school curricula, Clear Channel for progamming the same current music hits over and over and not allowing any mixed programming of classic hits on top 40 stations, MTV for throwing crap like Jackass, My Super Sweet Sixteen, Tiara Girls, Room Raiders, and the countless Real World marathons on TV instead of music videos, and VH1 for all of their CelebReality shows without showing why they became celebrities in the first place. excuse you, but i was born in 1982 and i know music from way back from Stevie Wonder, to Billie Holiday, to Miles Davis, to Kanye West, to Metallica, to Aerosmith, to The Doors, to Jimi Hendrix, to James Brown, to Al Green, to Parliament, to Earth, Wind & Fire, to Count Basie, to Duke Ellington, etc. So why the fuck should i give him a little credit just because he wasn't born when the Stevie Wonder track was originally released? That's the dumbest thing i have ever heard of as an excuse to not know or heard of a song. When you are in a singing/music competition such as American Idol, why not know your shit? Why not study music you listen to, as well as music that you may not listen to? What the hell is stopping them from learning? If i can find a damn Ella Fitzgerald song that she sung with Duke Ellington "Drop me off in Harlem" then why didn't Chris know the original Stevie Wonder song? I'm not even in American Idol and know some of the years when some of these songs were released!!! They are the ones who look dumb, and yes they look dumb to me when they don't know there shit!!! why apply for a computer desk job when you don't even know nothing about it first? Why when you go on an interview do you have to know at least something about the company/location or position in which you are applying for? Some of you are really rediculous and thats all i have to say about this. [Edited 5/29/06 20:23pm] I will forever love and miss you...my sweet Prince. | |
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Dayspring said: missfee said: yeah i took offense that he didn't know shit about stevie's ORIGINAL version...!!! them dumbass kids... you took offense? really? wow. you're way to deep into trivial shit. actually i'm not. Thanks. I will forever love and miss you...my sweet Prince. | |
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Moonwalkbjrain said: wow, ok yall obviously take this a tad more serious than me.
i feel the points on here, but as far as i'm concerened knowledge (not just musical knowledge but all kinds) dont mean jackshit if u dont know how to apply it. so katherine could be an expert on meatloaf, bach, jimi hendrix and billie holiday, but it aint gonna do a damn thing for her or her career if she cant apply it to what shes doing. as far as her researching or not researching meatloaf, ahh whatever. atleast she was honest about it and spoke truthfully and n e way it was an interesting experience for her and she probably took something away w/ her from the experience, which i think, helps u more than reading someones bio or listening to a song or two just because yeah i agree with "applying" part, but why can't they take the little time it takes to even listen to different kinds of music and learn about it. I'm not a die hard Metallica or Guns N Roses fan, but I know of their music and they did actually "write" songs.... this shit is really blowing me how some of you think that they should just sing and be ignorant of what they are singing about or who wrote it or produced it. They should take it more seriously is all i'm saying. I will forever love and miss you...my sweet Prince. | |
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missfee said: Dayspring said: you took offense? really? wow. you're way to deep into trivial shit. actually i'm not. Thanks. if you're offended by someone not knowing a Stevie Wonder song, then you are. | |
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Dayspring said: missfee said: actually i'm not. Thanks. if you're offended by someone not knowing a Stevie Wonder song, then you are. you have missed the point. it's not about just because it was a "Stevie Wonder song" its about knowing your craft. If they want to be the "American Idol" then you are obviously signing on to a "musical" career that you are trying to achieve. I mean is it too much to ask to at least know some famous talented singers who were where they had been?? Especially if the Idol is putting the legends on the show and you are singing one of their songs, that they put their blood, sweat, and tears into? I will forever love and miss you...my sweet Prince. | |
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missfee said: Dayspring said: if you're offended by someone not knowing a Stevie Wonder song, then you are. you have missed the point. it's not about just because it was a "Stevie Wonder song" its about knowing your craft. If they want to be the "American Idol" then you are obviously signing on to a "musical" career that you are trying to achieve. I mean is it too much to ask to at least know some famous talented singers who were where they had been?? Especially if the Idol is putting the legends on the show and you are singing one of their songs, that they put their blood, sweat, and tears into? How is knowing who Stevie Wonder is, going to help them sing better??? These are singers, not music historians. It seems like reading music or singing in key would be more important skills than knowing about music history. | |
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