New topic
Printablewhoknows said: wonder505 said: I certainly wasn't aware that my comment had been responded to in the first place, as how many pages did you have to go back to find this thread  ? If you ever want me to respond to something, orgnote me so that I actually notice a thread that is on page 5.
Anyway, a few notes: 1. Rhythm Nation was a concept that Janet worked out with Jimmy & Terry, not with Rene, and they have explained its genesis in many interviews. I don't know which interviews you are talking about, but I have never seen them, sorry to say. I agree with everything except for this point. [b]I remember, don't know what interview exactly where Jimmy Jam specifically said that Janet came back to him (Jimmy Jam) with the Rhythmn Nation concept. He never said the idea was a colloborative effort. I'm more inclined to believe the music on the album thereafter was but not the idea. There is no way of knowing what really is the truth but there is no reason for me to believe that Rene had NOTHING to do with Rhythmn Nation either. Just because of how their divorce went down does not mean I have to blindly believe whatever Janet says because I'm a fan. [Edited 5/20/06 11:16am] That's exactly my memory as well. Do you seriously think Janet ploughs through her history books and thinks about how 1814 was the year of independence? Rene also came up with the whole idea for the 30 minute film. His contributions were major. The hell? A LOT of people know that history. It's not like it's obscure. Somehow I don't think Jimmy, Terry or Janet would need to look it up anywhere, no more than they would need to look up the date of MLK's death. | |
- E-mail - orgNote -  Report post to moderator |
VoicesCarry said: whoknows said: The thread was on page 3 I think.
I'm sorry, I wasn't rooting through the dustbin for it. During the week I work 12 hour days so I happen miss a lot of threads once they slip off page 1. It wasn't intentional, honest! Fired him up creatively to do what? He didn't produce anything, he didn't write the majority of the songs - he was a session photographer for her, and he directed some videos. whoknows said: Starting from scratch with an unknown would be too disheartening. I don't think there's any doubt he was an opportunist but he was far from a leech.
Rene was a sleazebag. He liked the idea of cash and fame and used Janet to hitch a free ride. Janet has always had bad taste in men. It is what it is. At least now she is with someone who stands up for her and makes his own money. First of all, you seem to have the idea that all the work on an album is done in the studio. Song ideas can come while sitting on the bus. Very few lyrics and melodies of any value are written in the studio. If Rene was coming up with ideas J&L would be as in the dark about it as anyone else. Secondly, Janet did say that she felt guilty talking about ideas that weren't her own. Why would she say that if it wasn't true? Unless you think I'm making it up, in which case, please just say so. Thirdly, I don't doubt Rene was an opportunist, but you're wearing some serious blinkers if you think all he did was take. He could have easily sold his story for a fortune if he'd wanted to, but he didn't so all you have is Janet's side of the story. Not that I give a fuck about that anyway. | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
whoknows said: First of all, you seem to have the idea that all the work on an album is done in the studio. Song ideas can come while sitting on the bus. Very few lyrics and melodies of any value are written in the studio. If Rene was coming up with ideas J&L would be as in the dark about it as anyone else.
IF this, and IF that. This is all conjecture. whoknows said: Secondly, Janet did say that she felt guilty talking about ideas that weren't her own. Why would she say that if it wasn't true? Unless you think I'm making it up, in which case, please just say so.
I simply said I have never seen this interview, so I can't comment on it. whoknows said: Thirdly, I don't doubt Rene was an opportunist, but you're wearing some serious blinkers if you think all he did was take.
As I have already said on this thread, multiple times (do you bother reading my replies?), I am sure Rene made uncredited lyrical contributions and he also worked on her choreography, but nothing more. whoknows said: He could have easily sold his story for a fortune if he'd wanted to, but he didn't so all you have is Janet's side of the story. Not that I give a fuck about that anyway.
Yeah, you don't give a fuck about it, but you've posted a lot about it on this thread
Part of the divorce agreement was that neither would talk about the split or the terms of the settlement. Janet has not made any definitive statements about why they divorced. She barely talks about her personal life, anyway. If he sells his story, she impoverishes him. It's very simple. [Edited 5/20/06 14:49pm] | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
VoicesCarry said: wonder505 said: I certainly wasn't aware that my comment had been responded to in the first place, as how many pages did you have to go back to find this thread ? If you ever want me to respond to something, orgnote me so that I actually notice a thread that is on page 5.
Anyway, a few notes: 1. Rhythm Nation was a concept that Janet worked out with Jimmy & Terry, not with Rene, and they have explained its genesis in many interviews. I don't know which interviews you are talking about, but I have never seen them, sorry to say. I agree with everything except for this point. I remember, don't know what interview exactly where Jimmy Jam specifically said that Janet came back to him (Jimmy Jam) with the Rhythmn Nation concept. He never said the idea was a colloborative effort. I'm more inclined to believe the music on the album thereafter was but not the idea. There is no way of knowing what really is the truth but there is no reason for me to believe that Rene had NOTHING to do with Rhythmn Nation either. Just because of how their divorce went down does not mean I have to blindly believe whatever Janet says because I'm a fan. If he did come up with the idea, so what? [b][Edited 5/20/06 11:16am] "The thing we set out to do was not make Control Part II. We purposely didn't do any songs that were like 'Nasty' or 'What Have You Done For Me Lately' updated. The actual Rhythm Nation idea wasn't formed until about six or seven songs into the project. We realized there was a theme taking shape. During breaks, we spent a lot of time in the studio lounge watching television. We were watching a lot of CNN and there were a lot of world events that were happening that were screwed up. That was on our minds while we were making the album." - Jimmy Jam Of course Rene had something to do with Rhythm Nation. He worked on some choreography with Terry Bixler, and I am also sure he is not lying about working with Janet on the lyrics, as they were together at the time. But I don't think he was the creative force of the project, or in any of her work. [Edited 5/20/06 13:07pm] This proves zilch. If I could be bothered I could dig up quotes from Madonna's producers who have said what a great singer she is and how her vocals were done in one take with no overdubs. The last thing a producer's gonna do is undermine an artist they're making millions from and hope to work with again. | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
whoknows said: VoicesCarry said: "The thing we set out to do was not make Control Part II. We purposely didn't do any songs that were like 'Nasty' or 'What Have You Done For Me Lately' updated. The actual Rhythm Nation idea wasn't formed until about six or seven songs into the project. We realized there was a theme taking shape. During breaks, we spent a lot of time in the studio lounge watching television. We were watching a lot of CNN and there were a lot of world events that were happening that were screwed up. That was on our minds while we were making the album." - Jimmy Jam Of course Rene had something to do with Rhythm Nation. He worked on some choreography with Terry Bixler, and I am also sure he is not lying about working with Janet on the lyrics, as they were together at the time. But I don't think he was the creative force of the project, or in any of her work. [Edited 5/20/06 13:07pm] This proves zilch. If I could be bothered I could dig up quotes from Madonna's producers who have said what a great singer she is and how her vocals were done in one take with no overdubs. The last thing a producer's gonna do is undermine an artist they're making millions from and hope to work with again. It's ok. You'll believe what you wanted to believe all along, anyway. Even if it is not necessarily the truth. As if anything you've said on this thread is actual proof of Rene's involvement in anything [Edited 5/20/06 14:52pm] | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
VoicesCarry said: whoknows said: First of all, you seem to have the idea that all the work on an album is done in the studio. Song ideas can come while sitting on the bus. Very few lyrics and melodies of any value are written in the studio. If Rene was coming up with ideas J&L would be as in the dark about it as anyone else.
IF this, and IF that. This is all conjecture. As I have already said on this thread, multiple times (do you bother reading my replies?), I am sure Rene made uncredited lyrical contributions and he also worked on her choreography, but nothing more. whoknows said: He could have easily sold his story for a fortune if he'd wanted to, but he didn't so all you have is Janet's side of the story. Not that I give a fuck about that anyway.
Yeah, you don't give a fuck about it, but you've posted a lot about it on this thread
I'm talking about Rene's character which I only mention because you brought it up. To me, it's irrelevant whether he's an asshole or a nice guy. Part of the divorce agreement was that neither would talk about the split or the terms of the settlement. Janet has not made any definitive statements about why they divorced. She barely talks about her personal life, anyway. If he sells his story, she impoverishes him. It's very simple. Oh, please. I've heard her slagging him off in more than one interview. Where did you get the idea that he was a leech for instance? From comments she's made in interviews [Edited 5/20/06 14:49pm] | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
whoknows said: VoicesCarry said: Yeah, you don't give a fuck about it, but you've posted a lot about it on this thread
I'm talking about Rene's character which I only mention because you brought it up. To me, it's irrelevant whether he's an asshole or a nice guy. Part of the divorce agreement was that neither would talk about the split or the terms of the settlement. Janet has not made any definitive statements about why they divorced. She barely talks about her personal life, anyway. If he sells his story, she impoverishes him. It's very simple. Oh, please. I've heard her slagging him off in more than one interview. Where did you get the idea that he was a leech for instance? From comments she's made in interviews [Edited 5/20/06 14:49pm] Please don't presume to know what Janet fans thought about Rene LONG BEFORE the split He has always been considered skeezy, especially by fans who interacted with him during the tours.
And as for Janet's comments about him, I'm sorry, but I've never heard her say "Rene was a slimeball asshole" or anything of the sort. She has talked about the divorce, and she has made some songs that could be about him, but that's about it. [Edited 5/20/06 14:59pm] | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
whoknows said: VoicesCarry said: Yeah, you don't give a fuck about it, but you've posted a lot about it on this thread
I'm talking about Rene's character which I only mention because you brought it up. To me, it's irrelevant whether he's an asshole or a nice guy. Part of the divorce agreement was that neither would talk about the split or the terms of the settlement. Janet has not made any definitive statements about why they divorced. She barely talks about her personal life, anyway. If he sells his story, she impoverishes him. It's very simple. Oh, please. I've heard her slagging him off in more than one interview. Where did you get the idea that he was a leech for instance? From comments she's made in interviews [Edited 5/20/06 14:49pm] I messed up that post. My replies are in the blue box mixed up with your comments if you look. And for the last time. You keep saying this is all conjecture and I keep repeating Janet said this herself. On a separate but linked point, do u agree that her work after TVR has been shit.I'm guessing not. | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
whoknows said: I messed up that post. My replies are in the blue box mixed up with your comments if you look. And for the last time. You keep saying this is all conjecture and I keep repeating Janet said this herself.
Even if Janet said that she was afraid of talking about ideas blah blah blah, I still don't see how that amounts to "Rene wrote my songs and came up with Rhythm Nation and thought of the idea for the short film and directed it and made all my tour outfits and arranged the catering, too!"
But, as I said, I haven't seen that interview so I can't comment on it. On a separate but linked point, do u agree that her work after TVR has been shit.I'm guessing not.
Start reading my posts on this thread and maybe you'll find out  | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
VoicesCarry said: whoknows said: Please don't presume to know what Janet fans thought about Rene LONG BEFORE the split He has always been considered skeezy, especially by fans who interacted with him during the tours.
And as for Janet's comments about him, I'm sorry, but I've never heard her say "Rene was a slimeball asshole" or anything of the sort. She has talked about the divorce, and she has made some songs that could be about him, but that's about it. [Edited 5/20/06 14:59pm] When did I say that she said that???? Also, you know damn well those songs WERE about him. If those weren't negative comments I'd like to know what you think they were. | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
whoknows said: When did I say that she said that????
I was speaking in general terms  Would you feel better if I said she hadn't expressed overtly caustic negative sentiments in public?
whoknows said: Also, you know damn well those songs WERE about him. If those weren't negative comments I'd like to know what you think they were.
"Son Of A Gun" doesn't contain the name "Rene", so it isn't exactly the same thing as "slaggin him off in interviews", now is it? And all the Janet fans know who he was fucking on the side, but then we knew that before the divorce, too. [Edited 5/20/06 15:10pm] | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
VoicesCarry said: whoknows said: I messed up that post. My replies are in the blue box mixed up with your comments if you look. And for the last time. You keep saying this is all conjecture and I keep repeating Janet said this herself.
Even if Janet said that she was afraid of talking about ideas blah blah blah, I still don't see how that amounts to "Rene wrote my songs and came up with Rhythm Nation and thought of the idea for the short film and directed it and made all my tour outfits and arranged the catering, too!"
But, as I said, I haven't seen that interview so I can't comment on it. On a separate but linked point, do u agree that her work after TVR has been shit.I'm guessing not.
Start reading my posts on this thread and maybe you'll find out Yor comments about AFY and DJ were evasive. You say there were some good songs which implies there were many more weak ones. I've heard both the albums and I can categorically state they were shit. | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
VoicesCarry said: And all the Janet fans know who he was fucking on the side, but then we knew that before the divorce, too.
 We did? | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
whoknows said: VoicesCarry said: Start reading my posts on this thread and maybe you'll find out Yor comments about AFY and DJ were evasive. You say there were some good songs which implies there were many more weak ones. I've heard both the albums and I can categorically state they were shit. Good for you. Glad you have your opinion. BTW, you're very good at taking a comment and then extrapolating it to fucking outer space I said there were SOME GOOD SONGS on the records - take it at face value, and stop thinking of all the implications. I own both records, and I also enjoy them both. If you don't, well, them's the breaks. We'll have to agree to disagree. | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
CinisterCee said: VoicesCarry said: And all the Janet fans know who he was fucking on the side, but then we knew that before the divorce, too.
We did?If you visited the Janet boards daily, you would!
HINT: "You Ain't Right" | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
VoicesCarry said: whoknows said: When did I say that she said that????
I was speaking in general terms Would you feel better if I said she hadn't expressed overtly caustic negative sentiments in public?
whoknows said: Also, you know damn well those songs WERE about him. If those weren't negative comments I'd like to know what you think they were.
"Son Of A Gun" doesn't contain the name "Rene", so it isn't exactly the same thing as "slaggin him off in interviews", now is it? And all the Janet fans know who he was fucking on the side, but then we knew that before the divorce, too. [Edited 5/20/06 15:10pm] This is weak. Even you must know you're being disingenuous there. Do you believe the songs were about him or not? If you say no then I'm sorry but you're lying through your teeth. | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
whoknows said: VoicesCarry said: "Son Of A Gun" doesn't contain the name "Rene", so it isn't exactly the same thing as "slaggin him off in interviews", now is it? And all the Janet fans know who he was fucking on the side, but then we knew that before the divorce, too. [Edited 5/20/06 15:10pm] This is weak. Even you must know you're being disingenuous there. Do you believe the songs were about him or not? If you say no then I'm sorry but you're lying through your teeth. Sweetie, let me make it ULTRA CLEAR for you, because I'm getting real tired of clarifying things: 1. You said: "Oh, please. I've heard her slagging him off in more than one interview." 2. Then I said no, I hadn't ever seen her do that. 3. Then you said but what about all the negative comemnts in the songs! 4. Then I said how the fuck does that equate to "slagging him off in more than one interview"? All clear? OK. | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
VoicesCarry said: CinisterCee said: We did?If you visited the Janet boards daily, you would!
HINT: "You Ain't Right" *scanned lyrics* ohhhhh riiiiight.  | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
CinisterCee said: VoicesCarry said: If you visited the Janet boards daily, you would!
HINT: "You Ain't Right" *scanned lyrics* ohhhhh riiiiight. So both Son of Gun and You Ain't Right was about Rene? Interesting. [Edited 5/20/06 15:28pm] | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
wonder505 said: CinisterCee said: *scanned lyrics* ohhhhh riiiiight. So both Son of Gun and You Ain't Right was about Rene? Rene's a chick? Took myself on to the doctor wasn't feeling fine I had a fever 104 Oh that blew my mind Must be I had enough 'Bout to explode from the gossip i said Thought my friend had my back Just to stab oh yeah Hurts so bad when I talk Wanna take something Numb the pain I know it ain't right Come face to face with her Gotta tell her how I feel inside Ooh hoo you ain't right Ooh hoo sick and tired Yeah yeah yeah yeah The doctor said he'd give me something And I'd be alright I still feel queezy, feel uneasy No more drugs for me Friendships I cherish oh Let very few in the circle I said These walls I don't let down Not very easily Some friends you grow old with And they'll be there 'til the very end I do believe that But not with her like I thought Let her in and I'll get stabbed again Ooh hoo you ain't right Ooh hoo sick and tired Yeah yeah yeah yeah | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
http://talk.livedaily.com...p?t=107179 said: Norris: Your fans have a lot of strong feelings about everything, from what the set list should be to the next single. They did an informal poll on your Web site and they thought the next singles should be "Come On Get Up" and "Trust a Try." Do you have any idea what the next single will be?
Janet: There will be two. "Come On Get Up" and "Son of a Gun." But I'll get around to "Trust a Try," because I love that song. Norris: Do you think the "Son Of A Gun" video will feature [duet partner] Carly Simon? Janet: I'd love for it to. We're talking about it right now. | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
VoicesCarry said: wonder505 said: So both Son of Gun and You Ain't Right was about Rene? Rene's a chick? Took myself on to the doctor wasn't feeling fine I had a fever 104 Oh that blew my mind Must be I had enough 'Bout to explode from the gossip i said Thought my friend had my back Just to stab oh yeah Hurts so bad when I talk Wanna take something Numb the pain I know it ain't right Come face to face with her Gotta tell her how I feel inside Ooh hoo you ain't right Ooh hoo sick and tired Yeah yeah yeah yeah The doctor said he'd give me something And I'd be alright I still feel queezy, feel uneasy No more drugs for me Friendships I cherish oh Let very few in the circle I said These walls I don't let down Not very easily Some friends you grow old with And they'll be there 'til the very end I do believe that But not with her like I thought Let her in and I'll get stabbed again Ooh hoo you ain't right Ooh hoo sick and tired Yeah yeah yeah yeah Well in your previous thread you made the impression that Janets fans knew who Rene was cheating with and you referred to the song You Aint Right, so I was asking (because I didn't know) if that song referred to the situation with Rene. I definately believe Son of a Gun was about Rene. | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
CinisterCee said: http://talk.livedaily.com...p?t=107179
said: Norris: Your fans have a lot of strong feelings about everything, from what the set list should be to the next single. They did an informal poll on your Web site and they thought the next singles should be "Come On Get Up" and "Trust a Try." Do you have any idea what the next single will be?
Janet: There will be two. "Come On Get Up" and "Son of a Gun." But I'll get around to "Trust a Try," because I love that song. Norris: Do you think the "Son Of A Gun" video will feature [duet partner] Carly Simon? Janet: I'd love for it to. We're talking about it right now. Sad they never got around to all the singles planned. 
Janet chipped her tooth during the tour, 9/11 happened, Mariah took all of Virgin's promotional money, and she just said, "Fuck it." | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
wonder505 said: VoicesCarry said: Rene's a chick? Took myself on to the doctor wasn't feeling fine I had a fever 104 Oh that blew my mind Must be I had enough 'Bout to explode from the gossip i said Thought my friend had my back Just to stab oh yeah Hurts so bad when I talk Wanna take something Numb the pain I know it ain't right Come face to face with her Gotta tell her how I feel inside Ooh hoo you ain't right Ooh hoo sick and tired Yeah yeah yeah yeah The doctor said he'd give me something And I'd be alright I still feel queezy, feel uneasy No more drugs for me Friendships I cherish oh Let very few in the circle I said These walls I don't let down Not very easily Some friends you grow old with And they'll be there 'til the very end I do believe that But not with her like I thought Let her in and I'll get stabbed again Ooh hoo you ain't right Ooh hoo sick and tired Yeah yeah yeah yeah Well in your previous thread you made the impression that Janets fans knew who Rene was cheating with and you referred to the song You Aint Right, so I was asking (because I didn't know) if that song referred to the situation with Rene. I definately believe Son of a Gun was about Rene. Yes, it was. Just as What About was about James. | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
VoicesCarry said: Sad they never got around to all the singles planned.
Janet chipped her tooth during the tour, 9/11 happened, Mariah took all of Virgin's promotional money, and she just said, "Fuck it." That sampler is crazy. I wouldn't have thought of "Truth" as a single, but damn it's a good track. "China Love" was my fucken favorite. Yo, VC, lemme see that "Come On Get Up" cover art. | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
CinisterCee said: VoicesCarry said: Sad they never got around to all the singles planned.
Janet chipped her tooth during the tour, 9/11 happened, Mariah took all of Virgin's promotional money, and she just said, "Fuck it." That sampler is crazy. I wouldn't have thought of "Truth" as a single, but damn it's a good track. "China Love" was my fucken favorite. Yo, VC, lemme see that "Come On Get Up" cover art. 
Just a promo from Japan, but I like the shot. It never would have been the official single cover, though. [Edited 5/20/06 15:40pm] | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
VoicesCarry said: CinisterCee said: That sampler is crazy. I wouldn't have thought of "Truth" as a single, but damn it's a good track. "China Love" was my fucken favorite. Yo, VC, lemme see that "Come On Get Up" cover art.
Just a promo from Japan, but I like the shot. It never would have been the official single cover, though. Awesome.  Yeah, it's just cool to know that they go so far as mixing versions for radio... like they're in the cannon. I suppose that's one of the first steps. | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
CinisterCee said: VoicesCarry said:
Just a promo from Japan, but I like the shot. It never would have been the official single cover, though. Awesome. Yeah, it's just cool to know that they go so far as mixing versions for radio... like they're in the cannon. I suppose that's one of the first steps.I think Jam & Lewis make radio edits of most of their tracks prior to the album's release. | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
I think if those other 3 songs on that sampler had been played on radio, people would remember AFY a bit fonder. [Edited 5/20/06 15:54pm] | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
CinisterCee said: I think if those other 3 songs on that sampler had been played on radio, people would remember AFY a bit fonder.
FSR and CL are two of my favs. SOAG never should have been a single | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |