I really don't no if he will. And to tell the truth, i don't care anymore.

CandaceS said:

there was a reason 2 lawyers voluntarily resigned...

they didn't wan't to file a civil suit because they knew and were counciled that it would be a bad P.R. move.
but does that mean they could not file after they one the trial
of course not
The civil suit statute is 2 years
which could've meant
if they won the case, they could've sued for damages right after the ending of the trial!


THESE accusers were def out for money...
even people who believe jackson is a child molester knew these accusers were out for money!
the case was flimsy, the mother was perhaps more of a wack job than Jackson is proclaimed to be.
and she had a history of this behaivior
Does this case clear jackson on Molestation
no...

There is still Jordy...
(please no more links to that damn GQ article)
Jordy and his dad Hushed up for 16 million estimate,
there case might bee the only one that can cast any doubt on Jackson's innocence
Jordy's mother (a beautiful filipino woman) has never showed any malice toward jackson for molesting her son...
Perhaps cause she knows something we all don't know?
who knows...

FunkJam said:

I just think it's so sad.

I dunno. Like I said, I'm not really that much of a fan of his music, but I hate to see people kicking him when he is down.

I don't really know what to think about Michael Jackson. I KNOW that he has been ridiculed. It just reminds me of bullies... ya know saying it's just a joke. The whole situation is sad- just as much as Whitney's situation is sad...very sad.

I'd like to add
on the odd chance that Jackson gets caught with another child...
The arvizos could open a civil suit, and quite possibly win it...

EmbattledWarrior said:

But would that really be odd? Think about it. Look who we're talking about? The man whose whole career is now based off just that - ODD.

Axchi696 said:

EmbattledWarrior said:

If they were, why didn't they go straight to a civil suit requesting huge damages rather than messing with the criminal charges and trial? It's easier to win a civil suit (lower standard of proof) than a criminal case...just ask OJ.

CandaceS said:

Because, Sneddon (The DA) made them promise they wouldn't file a civil case during the time the trial and investigation were going on. And keep in mind Gavin and family have plenty of time to file a civil case and I bet they will. And it won't be reported that big, because the media likes Michael to look guilty.

StoneCrib said:

It's Michael's own fault for being a odd person or losing his childhood made him odd?

JasonStar said:

Or maybe what's making him look guilty is him sleeping in the bed with children that aren't his? What you think?

Krytonite said:

Mike's a grown ass man now. Stop using his "childhood" for his GROWN MANHOOD fuck-ups. MJ fans are truly sad and in deep denial. It's a damn shame. I sure hope R Kelly fans won't get this bad.

StoneCrib said:

you gotta think logically
Sure it wouldn't be odd if he was a pedophile,
but keep in mind theirs a ten year time lapse between the two cases...

no other victims...
very odd cause pedophiles have hundreds of victims...
he can't pay them all off...
afterall
he's damn near broke...

The 03 case probably would have never came up if it wasn't for the Bashir documentary anyway,
(the primary reason why the Arvizo's brought out the case, they were never compensated for their appearance)
Gavin was seen hugging and holding hands with michael jackson
everyone already assumed he was Jackson's lover,
Im almost positive if the Documentary never existed, the case could have been completely averted.
which leaves an open time frame for jackson and his molestation's...

Lets say Jackson is a pedophile
we'd have to use regular pedophile statistics with his victims
normal pedophile molests an average of 117 victims each year
the majority of these children don't report the offense
so lets multiply 117 by 10 years
thats 1,770 children within a ten year span,
so two of those children 1,770 reported the abuse
that gives Michael 2/1,770
very bad odds

you think these stats are a bit out there...
but think about it...
Jackson is a major celebrity
he could probably have a whole Harem of children, possibly doubling the normal stats
yet not one single victim can corroborate these children's story
thats unlikely...

im not saying Cause im a Jackson fan,
i most certainly not
i gave up on jacko years ago
Just telling ya what i know from the research i've done

But fuck the numbers
i could be wrong and Jacko could be the biggest molester on the planet...
But were are the children?

If your gonna condemn this man on charges he's already been cleared for
you better damn well have more evidence then
the accusers didn't file a civil suit, they were not looking for money
cause as i said before
Every good lawyer files the civil suit after the trial
Key example
Kobe Bryant,
Even though she lost the case... the Plaintiff still filed the civil suit after the trial. Showing to everyone, she was looking for one thing...
Money

But believe what you want
the majority of the people on this board have a vendetta against jacko, and use the child molestation to hurt the fans.
in reality they're hurt themselves because they see the man that they once loved
now a Ghoulish shadow of a man...
and want to hurt him any way they possibly can

Not me,
why bother...
That man built his own prison
and thats punishment enough...
[Edited 5/7/06 22:06pm]

Michael Jackson in court threads exists and were a big part of this forum. If anyone wants info on the trial I suggest you revisit those great threads by going back a couple of hundred pages. The Arvizo civil suit drama was played out in court and prior on this forum and in the news (mainly Friedman). They sought a few civil lawyers and they were referred to Larry Feldman who sent Gavin to the same 93 psychiatrist...sneddon "reopens" after intial claims by child welfare were unfounded...sound familiar.. I rather no recount the timeline of these events surrounding the civil suit, but they were one of the many deathnails for the prosecutions case, even without Larry King's testimony of what Feldman thought of the accusers story. I'm compelled in fairly large threads to point out facts like "Jordy Chandler isn't White" or recently "On the Bad Tour Michael snubbed Tatiana Thumbtzen for 18yr old Alfonso Riberio and Rick Schroder, not Macaulay Culkin." These facts don't take away from the overt actions that have got him in trouble or have made it impossible for a genuine comeback. A genuine comeback would be to get his life in order and his mind right. Might be too much to ask for.

Musically, a few good songs along the line of butterflies would make me happy, and singing live has to be a must again, even if it's on the average level of the Jacksons performance at MSG in 01. The History Tour was lame.

StoneCrib said:

I ask one simple question. No need to get pissed off. Ok.

EmbattledWarrior said:

I wouldn't say the majority, infact, this board is pro Michael. but some of the haters want you to believe the sole reason they "hate" on Michael is because he's a "pedophile", all the while they make fun of his appearance or even worse the molestation acts themselves. Gary Glitter and R.Kelly seem to be immune from the taunts that don't center around their molestation, though they get it good with regards to that.

I'm an R.Kelly/M.J fan who likes to focus on the music, whatever pathetic, tragic, prince loving, negative feelings that come up with regards to MJ certainly are not soley about these allegations. There's a whole minstrelsy aspect to this with regards to how some like to laugh and some feel ashamed about this "Black" person on stage. There's realities in this country some would rather dismiss then deal with.

I'm always reminded of the Michael Jackson discussion held at Yale a few years ago which was sponsered by the Black and GLBT student groups. One gay writer was so livid at the fact a GLBT student group was involved. He wanted to completely disassociate anything Gay from MJ, he was completly fine with the Black group sponsoring or discussing MJ. The attitude was "let the Blacks deal with their fuckup", "we didn't fuck him up", "certainly MJ might have grown up in the white dominant U.S and might have issues of repressed homosexuality...and yes, he does exhibit signs of being transgender (A Black man looking like Liz Taylor generallly would), but why would I want to deal with that, even though I'm an academic the whole pedophillia issue would just complicate things, it's just easier to label him a freak, laugh, and call it a day"
[Edited 5/7/06 23:16pm]

Well to answer the originaly question, based on the responses of this thread - it's going to be complicated. Though I'm not even sure how viable a force "2 Seas Records" as an international marketing force can be. Whether or not a 50-year-old Michael Jackson -type of artist would have a niche even if he was Michael Jackson is yet another question.

These threads will always turn ugly, and I do have to say that even if I constantly make fun of Michael a lot on these boards, there are certain people who cannot be called as anything else than "haters" and these same individuals are always all over every and each Jackson thread repeating the same off-topic comments. I guess, if you truly believe based on closely following the lawsuit that Jackson was indeed guilty you are very much entitled to your opinions. But if you just hate him for being a non-comformist freak, or "betraying the black race" (or "betraying the white race" as the case often seems on some other internet groups), I hope you will come aware of your own ignorance.

JasonStar said:

SACRELIGIOUS!

I don't think MJ can make a genuine comeback.Too much damage has been done,and he carries around ALOT of baggage these days.He still has a loyal,sizable fanbase though.They will buy anything he releases.Unfortunately,the general public is fed up with him.

DavidEye said:

Funny how he continues to outsell Madonna and Prince after that much damages!

I do believe that some peeps are more upset by what he has done to his physical appearance than the actual child abuse allegations. Because the same people who have so much disdain for him probably don't go on about someone like R.Kelly, where there is clear concrete proof of his crimes i.e video tapes..

I also believe the silly title "KOP" that so many fans hang onto doesn't mean anything. From the beginning MJ never needed a title to validate his achievements. MJ was truely at his best when he was Just Michael Jackson, when there was no hype, no gimmicks and no titles. I wonder if MJ finally realises that.?

speeddemon said:

Record sales tell only part of the story.Most people think he's a freak.A platinum album can't change the fact that he has severely damaged his career and his legacy.A Top 10 song won't change the fact that he was twice accused of molesting young boys.Yes,he may sell more records than Madonna,but I'd argue that her career is in a healthier state than his is right now.

There is a 50/50 chance if him making a comeback.

I lost interest in MJ back in 2001 (his albums became extremely formulaic), but through it all, I always enjoyed the sideshow of his persoanl life (as strange as it may be). In a sense, the Wacko Jacko image helped his sales to an extent.

If he wanted to engage in bizarre personal antics, that was his deal. What bothered me was the Martin Bashir interview when he basically inserted his foot into his mouth/holding hands with his future accuser. I was never so disgusted in my life and rationalize that all you want, I could no longer seperate the image/sound of his words(in the interview) from the nusic.


To make a comeback, he needs to:

1) Minimize the reliance on super-producers for every album. He has been in the biz for over 30 years, I'm sure he learned something.

2) Realize that his vids are not groundbreaking any longer. They are more of a detriment if anything else. Have people focus on the music, no the image.

3)TOUR the U.S. (a tall order). WIthout touring, he has forgotten the bread and butter of the music business (live performing). In this way, let people see whatever skills he may possess as a performer.

ANyways, time will tell.

StoneCrib said:

AMENNNNN!!!!! At some point, you have to be an adult, get some therapy and move on. Using his childhood is getting old especially cuz his ass is gettin' old.

It's OK to have your opinions about Michael Jackson, but when you start insulting his fans, that's when you've gone too damn far. Lay off, or fuck off. Stop stereotyping people because of the music they like or because of their opinions. Those posters trashing Michael Jackson fans need to grow up for fuck's sake. Get a life!

VoicesCarry said:

If Janet made those records you'd be calling them brilliant. I mean, you think Damita Jo is OK and that's the biggest stinking turd I have ever listened to. Disagree all you like.

And LMAO at all these armchair physiatrists up in here. You actually think you know something about Michael Jackson

speeddemon said:

BWAHAHAHAHA... see, people can't deal with these FACTS. Play it off all you want people, these are FACTS.

@ all of u.

Honestly I think a large amount of his ongoing popularity is not so much about his music and talent as much as it is about a need to defend him. His fans love to stick up for him and show their undying loyalty and one way they do that is by buying multiple copies of the same album. If they don't support him it's as if they've lost the 'battle' so through thick and thin, allegations and mediocre albums they'll continue to buy his records to show their solidarity and that no matter what, he's still their KOP.

WildStyle said:

I love the way MJ fans throw his sales figures around,as if this somehow makes up for all the craziness surrounding him these days even if he had got convicted of child molestation,they'd still be on here,gleefully pointing out that his records are still selling,lol.

JackieBlue said:

Very good point! I'm still a fan of MJ,but I'm not one of those fans who sit back and make excuses for him when he fucks up.And he has been fucking up lately....big time.

DavidEye said:

LOL what are you talking about? The topic of the thread is can he make a comeback. His sales figures suggest that he can. Simple as that. Nice try though.