I find it humorously ironic, remembering when I was a student at a Catholic school in New Orleans when Controversy came out and I happened to be playing a copy of the song on my junior beatbox (shoulder carried, 10 D cell batts of course) after school....I thought that the Irish Dominican Nuns who were our teachers were experiencing demonic possession when he got to the Lord's Prayer...needless to say, I was labeled a heathen, consigned without debate to the lowest levels of hell (hell express, 1st class accomodations and all....)

I bring that up to illustrate how misplaced your anger with hip hop/rap is....for all time, when society let itself lower standards, it became easy to pick a scapegoat....arts....music....certain books....certain individuals and ethnic groups...to be responsible for slipping morals and standards....as with my example above, the nuns were convinced that I was being sacreligious simply for listening to an artist recite the "Our Father" in a song...ever since the advent of hip hop, society was supposed to corrode into the abyss....but in the end, our free will still exists, for I have yet to listen to, view, or read anything that has managed to diminish my free will to rise above the material....because in reality thats all it is....MATERIAL!! When you allow yourself to be distracted from the reality of our issues...poverty...hate....ambivalence...apathy...and you allow the boogeyman (in this case, hip hop) to become the root of all that is wrong, then you cease being a part of the solution....you become another part of the problem....!!

If boys are emulating thugs...and girls identify with strippers...then shouldn't we be talking about irresponsible parenting?...unresponsive government that acts as though the problems we face are imaginary until it affects the profit margin? Shouldn't we be talking about a school system that DOESN'T teach our kids a goddamned thing...that doesn't hold kids accountable for their actions and behaviors....or parents of kids that blame everyone but their kids for their actions?? All I'm saying is that the root of the problem is WAY DEEPER than a genre of music....because if that were the case, how long ago would Prince have been banned, since in the early '80s all he did was warp young impressionable minds with all his sex/party up/revolution talk.....?

Food for thought folks....we do indeed need to wake the fuck up....but we need to reach for the truth instead of settling for the easy out of blaming yet another form of ENTERTAINMENT....

reneGade20 said:

reneGade20 said:

Co-Si.. WOW!!!

reneGade20 said:

Another for this post alone!!

ahh the voice of reason.

reneGade20 said:

This was a great post that made sense, but unfortunately I don't think it's the complete true reality of what is going on today. We cannot ignore the influence Hip Hop has had on the black community, good or bad. You say it's easy to blame Hip Hop, I say it's easy to not blame it. I personally think using the "bad parenting" card is tired simply because life is more complicated than that. Those that think parents are the only influence on children are living in a dream world. It would be so nice if people were molded simply by parenting skills. The reality is in this country today, for a number of reasons, kids are influenced by many things, including entertainment. It's too easy to think that the only reason so many American teenage girls want to be so thin is simply due to bad parenting. It's not that simple.

Repetition, repetition, repetition....that is the whole point of the commerical industry. If you are constantly bombarded with something it is going to influence you in some form or fashion. Certain people may have strong minds but the reality is people as a whole do not.So you keep feeding them an image and sooner or later it is going to have an effect.

While growing up there were a number of tv shows with black characters that had catch phrases. Before we knew it, all of the kids in the neighborhood, including myself, were saying "Dynomiiiiitttte" and "What chu' talkin' bout Willis". It's silly to think that it would have been ineveitable for all of us to begin to say that without the influence of those shows. Even those of us that were not allowed to watch television picked it up from those that were allowed to watch it. Was all of this due to bad parenting?

Hip Hop changed everything. Is it the cause of all of Black America's problems...of course not. But that does not mean we can or should ignore the heavy influence it has had on our community.

It is NOT JUST ENTERTAINMENT.
[Edited 4/28/06 14:25pm]

^ ahh the voice of reason

VelvetJ said:

really

VoicesCarry said:

ahh the voice of mockery

VelvetJ said:

Excellent points on both sides.

VelvetJ said:

Nobody is saying that it's simple, or that it's an easy thing for parents to monitor what their children watch. These things take effort.
No doubt, EVERYTHING that we take in has an influence on us, but it's up to us as responsible human beings to decide what we take in.
We will always have free will, so people are going to make the type of entertainment/art they want. Yes, it's a shame there are so many negative images in rap right now, I agree. But these images are supported by A LOT of folks. Those supporters play a huge part in this whole thing.
Like I said in my first post: Let these minstrel show rappers come out with an album that doesn't sell. If enough people decide that they're tired of seeing and hearing these things, it will have a reflection commercially. THAT'S when the suits take notice and start pushing something else. But as long as people are supporting the wackness, expect it to get major play. I for one have made up my mind to support what I feel is worthy and ignore what is not. That's all I can do, as a consumer and as a musician.

I don't even have the energy for this topic. The golden era of Hip Hop as well as underground Hip Hop usually gets completely ignored all the time, and people just sit back and blame "Hip Hop" for damn near every issue that plagues the black community. Many of these issues existed before Hip Hop. I wish the problem was as simple as just rap music.

VelvetJ said:

Bingo!!!

VelvetJ said:

I agree wholeheartedly....that hip hop does have a great influence...but to lump all of the problems of Black America's....ne, America's probs on hip hop is as misguided as you allude to my oversimplified read on the situation...I have to disagree with your analogy of catch phrases from shows, though...only because its unavoidable to quote a show...but to say that we will define our selves by what a character on a show says or an artists' lyrics is simply insane...point blank! I am on the cusp of 40, with 2 teenagers....trust me when I tell u that it is DEFINITELY a matter of parenting in shaping how ur kids come up...TV be damned!! I am openminded enough to let my kids listen to what they want, and to watch pretty much what they want...but I monitor their usage and I monitor their attitudes and whatnot and I correct when I see something that I identify as being anti-social behavior.....I am also a platoon sergeant in the Army and I have to do the same with my ADULT soldiers....nothing kills my optimism for society when GROWN ASSED PEOPLE screw the pooch and I end up having to escort them to jail....do I believe, seeing these soldiers off to jail, that they were somehow influenced by TV and music to fuck up like they have? NO I DON'T because in the end it all comes down to FREEDOM OF CHOICE! What have we accomplished at the end of the day when we know the consequences of choices and choose to go the wrong way anyway? How can you chalk that up to music and television? Yes the influence is there, but aren't we all evolved enough to see musicians and artists for what they are...commercialists? They will say what they have to get paid and if people allow themselves to be pimped into developing a lifestyle based on the artists words, how is that the fault of the artist or genre? To me its an exercise of grey matter....the argument that a genre of music can be totally blamed for the probs of a community fails the common sense test MISERABLY!!!

OdysseyMiles said:

AMEN TO THAT!!! If we stop buying, they stop talking!! Keep up with GangStarr, some old Quest....Lords of the Underground and hip hop artists that have something to say...all these bling bling, grillz havin' booty droppers will go the fuck away if we as consumers deny them our buying power...

StoneCrib said:

i did, and i completely agree w/ most of it.
[Edited 4/29/06 17:58pm]

I held back as long as I could on this topic but WTF. Rap/Hip-Hop influenced me back in the day and that influence will always be with me. To be specific, Public Enemy, Run-DMC, Beasties, LL, and then Tribe, GangStarr, Digable Planets (2nd album is a prog-rap album), De La Soul, Digital Underground, Del the Funky..., Pharcyde (1st maybe one of the best albums of all time), and many more I'm forgetting, but you get the point.
This was popular at the time. I know times change and all but WTF?
None of the artists I mentioned were negative on a large scale, and some not at all. That's what I see today, negative this that and the other. I know there's good stuff ou there (Common, Roots, Outkast, Mos Def, Talib, etc) but by and large , it's not the most popular stuff out there. It's very upsetting what's "popular" but I still got my collection.
Each one, Teach one.

Moonwalkbjrain said:

I blame fried chicken.

workingupahiyellasweat said:

I blame BAD fried chicken.

Universaluv said:

yea but they are mostly rappers.name a few black bands?u cant so our youth will not get instrumentally skilled because ceo's tell them they need to rap.turn to mtv white boy playing piano and guitar.as if we arent capable, u dont get it do u.look like idiot[chains gold teeth,slut video girls,bagged out clothing]and u my friend along with the rest of us will b percieved as idiots without any inclination of playing an instrument.ME AND MC DOPE GO RAP 4 THE MASTA CAUSE WE CANT PLAY.

joelmarable said:

I already named the Roots. The Roots is a hip hop band known for live instrumentation. ?uestlove is freaking everywhere.

Granted bands aren't necesarilly the popular thing right now, but that doesn't mean there aren't musicians out there who are doing quite well. Alicia Keys is a singer, songwriter, pianist who's managed to sell a few records.

So has John Legend.

So has Wyclef.

So has Lenny Kravitz.

Andre 3000 played guitar, keyboard and sax on the last Outkast album which seemed to sell ok. Now, if some kids choose to be musically influenced by artists who can't play an instruemnt, well that's their choice. But there are plenty of alternatives.

.
[Edited 5/2/06 13:03pm]

joelmarable said:

as far as the whole instruments thing goes i blame the school system for that. public schools cuttin down on the arts and as far as i know few catholic schools teach instruments, the one i'm @ we only got bell choir and singing and thats just to prepare 4 the spring and christmas concerts

AquafineDream said:

Ok, WTF is a death knoll? That's JFK's problem not ours.

There's the problem with black american mobiility. Not knowing the difference between knoll and knell and thinking that hip-hop lyrics are the real issue.

Honestly, the REAL enemy is us. We have excepted the low expectations of ourselves. We really need to get educated to the "game" that is being played upon us. Until we "unite", there we be NO progress. NONE.

There have been several well made points here and I agree with quite a few, but you CANNOT wake up if you don't KNOW that you are asleep. I could respond to this for days but I won't. There are very FEW poeple that understand what is really going on in the "world" right now. Those people want to "keep" what they have so they allow the types of things mentioned here to continue.

You want to ID the enemy? Look in the mirror. It ALL begins with you.

Graycap23 said:

VelvetJ said:

WOW! I'm really impressed with what y'all are saying!