because George Clinton defined Funk.... and before ya head explodes... no James Brown did not create Funk.. he defined Soul... what GC did was take soul to a higher level and take it somewhere else.

IAintTheOne said:

I don't know man.....it seems to me that George gets the credit but Bootsy defined it.

Graycap23 said:

Bootsy was nowhere around George when Funkadelic was conceived.

sinisterpentatonic said:

he was to busy playing with James at the time.listen to the original version of "I wanna testify"

IAintTheOne said:

i knew that.

Graycap23 said:

Bootsy was nowhere around George when Funkadelic was conceived.

...

I gotta start out by saying that P-funk now is a small shadow of their former selves...it's just not the same thing anymore...


But besides being one of the founders of Funk, and the one who came up with all these great ideas and sound (as well as visual) concepts, George in his prime, was also a great bandleader, in the same way that Duke Ellington, Count Basie, James Brown and Prince are great bandleaders--- he's not simply in front chanting (at least, that didn't USED to be the case , Lol!!) --he was dictating ideas about the overall sound both live and on record -- mood, tempo, who's playing, who's not playing, the dynamics-- how loud/ soft, how fast/slow...you had a load of great musicians , and George knew how to best use their strengths....

--Kinda like a Quincy Jones production--Q doesn't have to touch an instrument, yet there's a recognizable sound, that he has---and even if you had all those same players together, if Q wasn't producing, it would not sound quite the same...same with Prince, whether he touches an instrument or not...


My Friend LA(Elroy?) happened to be hangin' out when P-Funk was rehearsing for The Rock and Roll Hall Of Fame induction performance years ago--he said that it was a great example of how George worked and what he brought to the sound --

George was running late, but everyone else was there, including Bootsy, Mike Hampton, Garry Shider and Bernie Worrell..Bernie is taking them through the rehearsal, and apparently it sounds like what you would expect when you have a large group of people in one place just playing--kinda massive and not particularly focused.... and eventually George shows up...he sits and listens to them playing for a while, then walks over and starts giving direction-- tells some players to stop, one player to play a different kind of rhythm, and has another one start up, then brings a few others back in...basically he's got an idea for a sound, and he's putting all the puzzle pieces together...

Now, all these guys are Slammin' players on their own (and of course, many of 'em front their own bands), but when George put a frame around what they were doing, a whole new focused (and Funky) feel emerges... True, it just wouldn't be as good without those really talented players, but it would also be different if he wasn't there leading it...

having said all that though, it does seem sometimes as if George takes ALL the credit---there were other extremely important architects over the years --like Eddie Hazel, Billy "Bass Nelson, Bernie Worrell, Bootsy, Walter Junie Morrison-- they were all responsible for the sound, and it was never the same when they weren't there...But with the exception of Bootsy they're not household names. George is the face that everyone sees and recognizes, as if you could put him in the room by himself and get that sound...he needs his talented players...and they needed his direction...

In their prime, George, Bernie and Bootsy seemd to form a kind of sound pyramid and if any of the three were missing, the sound just wasn't the same...(for a good example of this, go to the T.A.P.O.A.F.O.M album...listen to the rest of the album--pretty cool, but then listen to the track, "Sloppy Seconds", put together by the three of them, and see the difference...)



...
[Edited 4/5/06 8:34am]

paligap said:

great post. I agree.

Graycap23 said:

Agree also..

Very well said..

...

I gotta start out by saying that P-funk now is a small shadow of their former selves...it's just not the same thing anymore...


But besides being one of the founders of Funk, and the one who came up with all these great ideas and sound (as well as visual) concepts, George in his prime, was also a great bandleader, in the same way that Duke Ellington, Count Basie, James Brown and Prince are great bandleaders--- he's not simply in front chanting (at least, that didn't USED to be the case , Lol!!) --he was dictating ideas about the overall sound, both live and on record -- mood, tempo, who's playing, who's not playing, the dynamics-- how loud/ soft, how fast/slow...you had a load of great musicians, and George knew how to best use their strengths....

--Kinda like a Quincy Jones production--Q doesn't have to touch an instrument, yet there's a recognizable sound that he has---and even if you had all those same players together, if Q wasn't producing, it would not sound quite the same...same with Prince, whether he touches an instrument or not...


My Friend LA(Elroy?) happened to be hangin' out when P-Funk was rehearsing for The Rock and Roll Hall Of Fame induction performance years ago--he said that it was a great example of how George worked and what he brought to the sound --

George was running late, but everyone else was there, including Bootsy, Mike Hampton, Garry Shider and Bernie Worrell..Bernie is taking them through the rehearsal, and apparently it sounds like what you would expect when you have a large group of people in one place just playing--kinda massive and not particularly focused.... and eventually George shows up...he sits and listens to them playing for a while, then walks over and starts giving direction-- tells some players to stop, one player to play a different kind of rhythm, and has another one start up, then brings a few others back in...basically he's got an idea for a sound, and he's putting all the puzzle pieces together...

Now, all these guys are Slammin' players on their own (and of course, many of 'em front their own bands), but when George put a frame around what they were doing, a whole new focused (and Funky) feel emerges... True, it just wouldn't be as good without those really talented players, but it would also be different if he wasn't there leading it...

having said all that though, it does seem sometimes as if George takes ALL the credit---there were other extremely important architects over the years --like Eddie Hazel, Billy "Bass" Nelson, Bernie Worrell, Bootsy, Walter "Junie" Morrison-- that haven't really gotten their props...they were all responsible for the sound, and it was never the same when they weren't there... with the exception of Bootsy, they're not household names. George is the face that everyone sees and recognizes, but it's not as if you could put him in the room by himself and get that sound...he needs his talented players...and they needed his direction...

In their prime, George, Bernie and Bootsy seemed to form a kind of sound pyramid and if any of the three were missing, the sound just wasn't the same...(for a good example of this, go to the T.A.P.O.A.F.O.M album...listen to the rest of the album--pretty cool, but then listen to the track, "Sloppy Seconds", put together by the three of them, and see the difference...)



...
[Edited 4/5/06 9:22am]

So, the leader of an immensely influential band like Parlianment-Funkadelic that in itself is greatly under-rated, is over-rated? I have issues with George taking all the credit for songwriting when he neither plays nor writes music, but there is an intuitive nature to his leadership and he is more than a producer: he always performs live with his "back up" band.

Make no mistake, Prince knows damn well who peed in his afro.

paligap said:

that's all well and good but I can see what the original posters point is. Many of prince's other idols, as well as being great directors/producers/conceptualists, were also immensely talented performers and musicians. Sly Stone for example was a great bandleader as well as a talented singer, multi-instrumentalist and composer. James Brown likewise was a great singer and frontman in addition to being the main musical director and conceptualist of his music. I will agree that George is overrated in that he's seen as the personification of P-funk when so many other people who were actual talented players and singers had major roles in the creation of the sound. How many people have any idea who Glen Goins is, for example, a man who was an incredible singer as well as playing guitar and co-writing many songs for P-funk.

I have a feeling George could play instruments, he just doesn't need to do it with the band he has. I can't criticize him for having an incredible band, and I give him credit for unifying the amazing music like JB, Quincy Jones, Duke, Miles.

NDRU said:

Pigs could fly in zero gravity too.

There's plenty of factual evidence of all those named, including JB, playing an instrument. Nothing such for GC that I've seen. I have a tremendous appreciation for George Clinton, but I don't entertain this kind of science-fiction. Show me the goods.

Plenty of bands have talented members, but they don't all produce brilliant music.

That said, it took great players/arrangers like Bernie & Bootsy & Fred to complete the picture. George isn't Prince in that sense.

PFunkjazz said:

Oh, come now, he's a virtuoso on the pipe!

PFunkjazz said:

Oh, come now, he's a virtuoso on the pipe!

PFunkjazz said:

Oh, come now, he's a virtuoso on the pipe!

NDRU said:

Pigs could fly in zero gravity too.

There's plenty of factual evidence of all those named, including JB, playing an instrument. Nothing such for GC that I've seen. I have a tremendous appreciation for George Clinton, but I don't entertain this kind of science-fiction. Show me the goods.