okay i know tease mike-mebbes its unfounded..

now i dont own any MJ music but to prove me wrong and to stop this squabbling could anyone scan the credits for THRILLER ANDOFF THE WALL

i keep on getting angry mj fans saying YES big mike does write all his own songs and plays on all the records...now i was always under the impression that mike wrote and played jackshit-but apparently im wrong!

so a simple scan should end this silly arguement

SCAN AWAY AND LETS END IT NOW!!!

He only started playing instruments on his records by HIStory and BOTDF. They're the only albums. He's not a great musician. Competent, but not amazing.

THOUGH MJ has had a hand in tons of work from the late stages of J5 - the Jacksons albums....here is starting from Off The Wall ONLY...


off the wall album -

Plays Percussion on "Dont Stop Till You Get Enough"
Produced by Michael Jackson & Quincy Jones, Rhythm Arrangement and Percussion arrangement by MJ.

No Credtit other than vocals for Rock With You


Vocal & percussion arrangements on Workin Day & Night
Plays percussion, Produced by Michael Jackson & Quincy

Get On The Floor
Produced by Louis Jordan & MJ

Off The Wall
no credit other than vox.

Girlfriend
Vocal arrangements by MJ & Quincy

Shes Outta My Lifeno credit other than vox

I Cant Help It
no credit other than vox

Its The Fallin In Love
no credit other than vox

Burn This Disco Out
no credit other than vox

seems like he had more 2 do with side one

I have to go to work now, but I would post the credits to Thriller and the rest PLUS the credits for the Jacksons albums. But I gotta go, gotta leave, so please dont make it hard 4 me..

whooooh nnonononono

IM GETTING ALOTTA MIKE FANS TELLING ME CONTRARY-just do the scans and we can all sleep better

jonylawson said:

Why are you obsessed with Off The Wall and Thriller?

Ellie said:

I know? They are only 2 albums in his career

Didn't you buy Thriller?

because there appears to be alot of self delusional mj fans who proffess that mike plays and writes shit all the time.....

we all know he doesnt-so this thread is just to flush those delusional fools down the pan and we can all get down to the business of enjoying a bit of 'heal the world'

cmon we can make it a better place

i actually bought thriller 2 months ago-never had it

its aged quite badly-not the hits i think human natureis just beautiful,beat,thriller etc classics but the rest hasnt aged that well.

who wrote human nature-i love it?

Right, so since he started to become the primary composer and producer of his music nearly 20 years ago, because he wasn't 27 years ago that's reason to shit on him.

Here's a suggestion: don't listen to 14 year old twerps from places like MJNO who have only been fans for a few years and like to declare MJ the inventor of everything

jonylawson said:

Steve Porcaro

Songs written by MJ

Off The Wall

DON'T STOP 'TIL YOU GET ENOUGH
WORKING DAY AND NIGHT
GET ON THE FLOOR (co)

Thriller
GIRL IS MINE, THE
WANNA BE STARTIN' SOMETHIN'
BEAT IT
Billie Jean
[Edited 4/11/06 12:15pm]

lilgish said:

You forgot his most famous hit; Billie Jean!!

but arent all of his albums shit after thriller?

and if he does alot more thesedays how did invicible cost the same as the whole 3rd world debt deficit?

Cos he was off his face on narcotics during that sorry period and didn't give a crap about turning up for recording sessions, hiring a million shitty producers and taking about 3 weeks per song

jonylawson said:

Hey, you started this 'argument' all on your lonesome. you're the only one shouting off. Perhaps you ought to end it, cause you're getting tiresome.

jonylawson said:

I think Dangerous is better than Thriller

jonylawson said:

Not at all. In fact if Michael Jackson ever had artistic growth it happened in the 90s. And I believe if you ask the fans, "Thriller" is nowhere nearly their favourite. For a lot of people I guess it's even their least favourite Jackson record sans the remix album and Invincible.

Novabreaker said:

Actaully, Invincible is a fan favourite. But it's true that Thriller is regular mentioned as a favourite amongst fans. Mostly because it allready gets alot of acclaim, but also because it's only got at least 3 really good songs (Beat It, Billie Jean and Human Nature) and because it just doesn't stack up to post-Thriller album (expecially, as mentioned, Dangerous, which is regarded as his best amongst fans). Play Thriller all the way through, and then Dangerous all the way through. You'll notice how much better Dangerous is if you do that.

Ellie said:

and John Bettis

OTW is MJ best album, imo. It's tight, flows well and the songs are forever green.

Thriller comes a close second Imo, it is a little more diverse and some of the songs are campy but with songs like Billie Jean, Human Nature and The Lady in MY life and those memorable videos, as well as the Motown 25 performance that album was always going to go down as a classic.

Bad to me was just Bad...too poppy, MJ practically forgot about his RnB roots on this album

Dangerous, the problem I had with this album is like with Bad he was still trying to chase the record sales that he had with Thriller..so the album became too diverse and it ended up for me sounding messy and chaotic, with very little flow. In the end, for me the album sounded too contrieved and over-produced. There were some classic songs on that album but overall I think he was trying too hard to be all things to all people...

After Dangerous I practically lost interest in MJ albums, although I must admit Stranger in Moscow is one of his best songs since Thriller.

Below are the song credits for every MJ album from Off The Wall - Invincible (except BOTDF, which isn't a studio album anyway, and which I don't own so couldn't type up the credits). I don't have a scanner, so this'll have to do (and it better do because it took me ages!). I didn't include lead and backing vocals as it's obvious that he does the lead and backings vocals on all his songs (except duets ofcourse and the occasional song which requires a choir). If he didn't do anything except vocals on a song, I didn't type up the credits for the song. But you'll find that once it gets to Bad, he does something (except vocals) on just about every track. If others helped him write, compose, produce or arrange a song, I included them so it doesn't seem like MJ did it all by himself.

OFF THE WALL:

Don’t Stop Til You Get Enough
By Michael Jackson
Co-Produced by Michael Jackson
Michael Jackson - Percussion
Rhythm Arrangement by Greg Phillinganes and Michael Jackson
Vocal and Percussion Arrangements by Michael Jackson

Workin’ Day And Night
By Michael Jackson
Co-Produced by Michael Jackson
Michael Jackson - Percussion
Rhythm Arrangement by Greg Phillinganes and Michael Jackson
Vocal and Percussion Arrangements by Michael Jackson

Get On The Floor
By Michael Jackson and Louis Johnson
Co-Produced by Michael Jackson
Vocal Arrangement by Michael Jackson

Girlfriend
Vocal Arrangement by Michael Jackson and Quincy Jones


THRILLER:

Wanna Be Startin’ Somethin’
By Michael Jackson
Michael Jackson - Bathroom stomp board
Vocal Arrangement by Michael Jackson
Rhythm Arrangement by Michael Jackson and Quincy Jones
Horn Arrangement by Jerry Hey and Michael Jackson

Beat It
By Michael Jackson
Michael Jackson - Drum case beater
Vocal Arrangement by Michael Jackson
Rhythm Arrangement by Michael Jackson and Quincy Jones

Billie Jean
By Michael Jackson
Vocal, Rhythm and Synthesizer Arrangements by Michael Jackson

P.Y.T. (Pretty Young Thing)
Michael Jackson - Handclaps
Interesting side note: P.Y.T.’s vocals by Janet Jackson and Latoya Jackson

Original Album Credits
*Co-produced by Michael Jackson for MJJ Productions


BAD:

Bad
Written and Composed by Michael Jackson
Rhythm arrangement by Michael Jackson, Christopher Currell and Quincy Jones
Vocal arrangement by Michael Jackson

The Way You Make Me Feel
Written and Composed by Michael Jackson
Michael Jackson - Finger snaps
Rhythm and Vocal arrangements by Michael Jackson

Speed Demon
Written and Composed by Michael Jackson
Michael Jackson - Vocal synthesizer
Rhythm arrangement by Michael Jackson and Quincy Jones
Vocal arrangement by Michael Jackson

Liberian Girl
Written and Composed by Michael Jackson
Rhythm arrangement by Michael Jackson, John Barnes and Quincy Jones
Vocal arrangement by Michael Jackson and John Barnes

Another Part of Me
Written and Composed by Michael Jackson
Rhythm and Vocal arrangements by Michael Jackson and John Barnes

I Just Can’t Stop Loving You
Written and Composed by Michael Jackson
Vocal arrangement by Michael Jackson and John Barnes

Dirty Diana
Written and Composed by Michael Jackson
Michael Jackson - Claves
Synthesizer arrangement by Michael Jackson, Quincy Jones and John Barnes
Vocal arrangement by Michael Jackson

Smooth Criminal
Written and Composed by Michael Jackson
Michael Jackson - Clap

Leave Me Alone
Written and Composed by Michael Jackson
Michael Jackson - Vocal synthesizer
Rhythm and vocal arrangements by Michael Jackson

Original Album Credits
Co-produced by Michael Jackson for MJJ Productions


DANGEROUS:

Jam
Music by Rene Moore, Bruce Swedien, Michael Jackson and Teddy Riley
Song and Lyrics by Michael Jackson
Produced by Michael Jackson, Teddy Riley and Bruce Swedien
Arrangement by Michael Jackson Bruce Swedien, Teddy Riley and Rene Moore
Vocal arrangement by Michael Jackson

Why You Wanna Trip On Me
Produced by Teddy Riley and Michael Jackson
Vocal arrangement by Michael Jackson

In The Closet
Written and Composed by Michael Jackson and Teddy Riley
Produced by Teddy Riley and Michael Jackson
Vocal arrangement by Michael Jackson

She Drives Me Wild
Written and Composed by Michael Jackson and Teddy Riley
Produced by Teddy Riley and Michael Jackson
Vocal arrangement by Michael Jackson

Remember The Time
Written and Composed by Teddy Riley, Michael Jackson and Bernard Belle
Produced by Teddy Riley and Michael Jackson
Vocal Arrangement by Michael Jackson

Can’t Let Her Get Away
Written and Composed by Michael Jackson and Teddy Riley
Produced by Teddy Riley and Michael Jackson
Vocal Arrangement by Michael Jackson

Heal The World
Written and Composed by Michael Jackson
Produced by Michael Jackson
Vocal Arrangement by Michael Jackson

Black or White
Written and Composed by Michael Jackson
Produced by Michael Jackson and Bill Bottrell
Vocal Arrangement by Michael Jackson
“Intro”: Directed by Michael Jackson

Who Is It
Written and Composed by Michael Jackson
Produced by Michael Jackson and Bill Bottrell
Arrangement by Michael Jackson
Soprano voice: Michael and Linda Hammon

Give In To Me
Written and Composed by Michael Jackson and Bill Bottrell
Produced by Michael Jackson and Bill Bottrell

Will You Be There
Written and Composed by Michael Jackson
Produced by Michael Jackson
Vocal Arrangement by Michael Jackson

Keep The Faith
Written and Composed Glen Ballard, Seidah Garrett by Michael Jackson
Produced by Michael Jackson

Gone Too Soon
Produced by Michael Jackson

Dangerous
Written and Composed by Michael Jackson, Bill Bottrell and Teddy Riley
Produced by Teddy Riley and Michael Jackson
Vocal Arrangement by Michael Jackson


HISTORY:

Scream
Written and Composed by James Harris II and Terry Lewis, Michael Jackson and Janet Jackson
Produced by Jimmy Jam & Terry Lewis , Michael Jackson and Janet Jackson

They Don’t Care About Us
Written and Composed by Michael Jackson
Produced by Michael Jackson

Stranger In Moscow
Written and Composed by Michael Jackson
Produced by Michael Jackson

This Time Around
Song and Lyrics written by Michael Jackson
Produced by Michael Jackson

Earth Song
Written and Composed by Michael Jackson
Produced by Michael Jackson and David Foster

D.S.
Written and Composed by Michael Jackson
Produced by Michael Jackson for MJJ Productions

Money
Written and Composed by Michael Jackson
Produced by Michael Jackson

Come Together
Produced by Michael Jackson and Bill Bottrell

You Are Not Alone
Produced by R Kelly and Michael Jackson

Childhood
Written and Composed by Michael Jackson
Produced by Michael Jackson and David Foster

Tabloid Junkie
Written and Composed by Michael Jackson, James Harris II and Terry Lewis
Produced by Michael Jackson and Jimmy Jam & Terry Lewis

2 Bad
Song and lyrics written by Michael Jackson
Produced by Michael Jackson, Jimmy Jam & Terry Lewis and Bruce Swedien and Rene

HIStory
Written and Composed by Michael Jackson, James Harris II and Terry Lewis
Produced by Michael Jackson and Jimmy Jam & Terry Lewis

Little Susie
Written and Composed by Michael Jackson
Produced by Michael Jackson

Smile
Produced by David Foster and Michael Jackson

Artist Credits:
Arrangements by Michael Jackson (among others)
Vocal Arrangements by Michael Jackson (among others)
String Arrangement by Michael Jackson
Sequencer Arrangements by Michael Jackson and Brad Buxer
Keyboard Arrangements by Michael Jackson
Horn Arrangement by Michael Jackson and Jerry Hey
Keyboards and Synthesizers: Michael Jackson (among others)
Guitars: Michael Jackson (among others)
Drums & Percussion: Michael Jackson (among others)
Executive Producer: Michael Jackson


INVINCIBLE:

Unbreakable
Written and Composed by Michael Jackson, Rodney Jerkins, Fred Jerkins III, LeShawn Daniels, Nora Payne and Robert Smith
Produced by Michael Jackson and Rodney Jerkins
All musical instruments performed by Michael Jackson and Rodney Jerkins

Heartbreaker
Written and Composed by Michael Jackson, Rodney Jerkins, Fred Jerkins III, LeShawn Daniels, Mischke and Norman Gregg
Produced by Michael Jackson and Rodney Jerkins
Music programmed by Michael Jackson and Rodney Jerkins

Invincible
Written and Composed by Michael Jackson, Rodney Jerkins, Fred Jerkins III, LeShawn Daniels and Norman Gregg
Produced by Michael Jackson and Rodney Jerkins
Music programmed by Michael Jackson and Rodney Jerkins

Break of Dawn
Written and Composed by Dr Freeze and Michael Jackson
Produced by Michael Jackson and Dr Freeze
All musical instruments performed by Michael Jackson, Dr Freeze, Rodney Jerkins and Teddy Riley
Drum Programming by Michael Jackson and Brad Buxer

Heaven Can Wait
Written and Composed by Michael Jackson, Teddy Riley, Andreao Heard, Nate Smith, Teron Beat, E. Laues and K. Quiller
Produced by Michael Jackson and Teddy Riley

You Rock My World
Written and Composed by Michael Jackson, Rodney Jerkins, Fred Jerkins III, LeShawn Daniels and Nora Payne
Produced by Michael Jackson and Rodney Jerkins
All musical instruments performed by Michael Jackson and Rodney Jerkins

Butterflies
Produced by Michael Jackson and Andre Harris

Speechless
Written and Composed by Michael Jackson
Produced by Michael Jackson
Arranged by Michael Jackson
Orchestra arranged and conducted by Michael Jackson and Jeremy Lubbock

2000 Watts
Written and Composed by Michael Jackson, Teddy Riley, Tyrese Gibson and J. Henson
Produced by Michael Jackson and Teddy Riley

You Are My Life
Written and Composed by Michael Jackson, Babyface, Carole Bayer Sager and John McClain
Produced by Michael Jackson and Babyface

Privacy
Written and Composed by Michael Jackson, Rodney Jerkins, Fed Jerkins III, LeShawn Daniels and Bernard Bell
Produced by Michael Jackson and Rodney Jerkins

Don’t Walk Away
Written and Composed by Michael Jackson, Teddy Riley, Richard Carlton Stites and Reed Vertelney
Produced by Michael Jackson and Teddy Riley

Cry
Produced by Michael Jackson and R Kelly
Keyboard Programming by Michael Jackson and Brad Buxer
Drum Programming by Michael Jackson and Brad Buxer
Mixed by Michael Jackson and Mick Guzauski

The Lost Children
Written and Composed by Michael Jackson
Produced by Michael Jackson
Arranged by Michael Jackson
Keyboard Programming by Michael Jackson and Brad Buxer
Interesting side note: Narrative by Baby Rubba and Prince Jackson

Whatever Happens
Written and Composed by Michael Jackson, Teddy Riley, Gil Cang, J. Quay and Geoffrey Williams
Produced by Michael Jackson and Teddy Riley

Threatened
Written and Composed by Michael Jackson, Rodney Jerkins, Fred Jerkins III and LeShawn Daniels
Produced by Michael Jackson and Rodney Jerkins
All musical instruments performed by Michael Jackson and Rodney Jerkins

Executive Producer: Michael Jackson
[Edited 4/12/06 3:34am]

jonylawson said:

If you bought it, why don't you have the liner notes? Just askin'...

DarlingDiana said:

Interesting...we've never seen him playing guitars or drums before, and I've seen exactly one photo of him playing piano at home, but according to this he played a lot of the music on this album?



OK, first I gotta say WTF, why so many songwriters? Of my top five MJ tracks he wrote all but one (Rock With You) all by himself, what happened by this point in time?

Guess I need to get my hands on a copy of Invincible, now I'm curious who played the music on the other tracks.

"All musical instruments"...does the liner itself list what they were?

Okay, but still seems odd that, though he's never been known as a musician, on this album he's supposedly playing all over the place. Not to mention conducting an orchestra? But at any rate sounds like they mostly used synthesizers, drum machines, etc. So good question, why DID it cost so much to make this album?!


If, like Prince, Mike really can do it all, seems like he should be able to put out music any time? All he needs is a website to sell it from. People have been claiming he has a whole album ready, why doesn't he put something out, at least a track?

Invincible barely even had any "instruments". It was all annoying computerised sounds.

CandaceS said:

Just because he doesn't boast about his instrumental capabilities, doesn't mean he doesn't have them.

CandaceS said:

I have no idea why he used so many writers for Invincible. But as it looks, it seems like he formulated a songwriting team (as most tracks are by MJ, Teddy Riley, Rodney Jerkins, Fred Jerkins and LeShawn Daniels) and that team wrote most of the songs.

CandaceS said:

Actually, there aren't alot of musicians on Invincible. As Ellie said it's most computer generated. Although, it is interesting that they acknowledge that Mike did the programming on some tracks but on other tracks credit him as playing all musical instruments. I think MJ actually played real authentic instruments on some tracks. I don't think all musical instruments were programmed.

Take You Rock My World for example. MJ is credited as playing all instruments with Rodney Jerkins. This could be rhythm guitar, piano (it's probably a keyboard made sound like an authentic piano) and bass. But the strings and drums sound programmed. I really doubt the strings are organic, and Mike or Rodney most probably set the keyboard to sound like a string section. The drums on this track are probably a drum machine. Anyway, I think Michael played a real guitar, a real keyboard and a real bass (or maybe even this was played on the keyboard). But I'm sure he did play real instruments.

CandaceS said:

No. It just says exactly what I typed up. All musical instruments performed by Michael Jackson.

CandaceS said:

So he's not known as an instrumentalist (I hate saying he's not a musician because a musician constitutes a singer, songwriter, composer etc. as well as an instrumentalist), but what does this prove? For all we know he could be an excellent mathematician or something. Just because he doesn't make things known to the world, doesn't mean he doesn't do them. I don't doubt he can play instruments and I think he could probably produce, arrange and perform an album entirely by himself or that he could play guitar or piano on stage. But my best guess is he'd rather be known as a singer and dancer, like he always has been. I don't think he desires acclaim as a musician.

CandaceS said:

Well, it seems obvious to me. You mentioned all the writers he used on this album. I bet it cost alot to pay their production companies for the songs. People like Brandy, Chris Tucker, Babyface and Santana appeared on the record. There was even a posthumous rap by B.I.G. on Unbreakable. I bet it cost alot to pay their record labels so they can appear on the record. Also, just having another look at the liner notes, they used alot of different studios (no idea why) to record the album. So basically, when you think about it, it makes sense that Invincible cost so much to make.
[Edited 4/12/06 5:38am]

I'm pretty sure that most of the credits for "all instruments: Michael Jackson" or for playing guitar or any other "real" intrument was just for hype reasons.
Probably he had an agreement with those who really played the instruments to get some credit shifted towards him in exchange for some financial reward.

Why am i so shure ?

Because, showman that he is and being surrounded by clever marketing experts, if he really could play any real instruments i'm sure he/they would have used these skills either for inclusion in the live shows (nice unexpected guitar solo or piano solo or whatever) or for some other bigger hype.

Note that most of the playing credits are pretty vague - it's either "all instruments" without being more specific as to which instruments exactly (see, they could have Michael placing some guitar samples into ProTool and call it "guitar:Michael Jackson) or it's "Keyboards: Michael Jackson *and* XYZ" without being specific about what amount of keyboard playing MJ was doing and how much the other guy.

As said, if he really could play, they would have milked that to its fullest possible extent.

Everytime a singer also plays an instrument it's featured at at least some point, be it in vids, live, tv appearnces, see D'Angelo, John Legend, Alicia Keys,heck....even plastic Tittney Spears sat at the grand piano in her show.

So if Michael Jackson really could play, he'd be the first to include it in live shows etc - for sure.
.
[Edited 4/12/06 6:49am]
[Edited 4/12/06 6:49am]
[Edited 4/12/06 6:51am]

Marketing? Fans only realised it late on. It was not once advertised or publicised that he had those credits on the album.

beatz01 said:

Total bollocks. I can't solo a shit on the keyboard and wouldn't go on stage pretending like I can - but that doesn't mean I wouldn't be able to use keyboards when recording music. I just need perhaps a couple of extra takes in case I'll muck it up, but I wouldn't count on myself as a professional band member. Doesn't mean I can't play an instrument, doesn't mean that Michael can't play an instrument.

Basically what that means is that he is a professional singer and a dancer, but a hobbyist-level musician. A hobbyist can still use his skills in recording environment exactly on the same level as a professional can on parts that are not that demanding.

Well,

probably depends on what is meant by "playing".I'm not saying MJ doesn't know "how to use" a keyboard, but that's different from really "playing".

And don't get me wrong, i ain't saying any singer should be able to play an instrument or anything, in fact i think even if MJ would have never written a single song let alone playing instruments but only for his singing he has earned his place in musical history.

But it's a different thing to credit him on albums as "Keyboards/guitar: MJ" because just by listening to the songs you can hear that that shit *must" have been *played* by someone how knows how to *play*, or to even credit him for playing ALL the instrumens on his albums by himself like some of his fans seem to do (which was the initial question).

Agreed, might be the case he knows how to use a keyboard in a way or another but that doesn't really justify the "playing" credits because it gives the impression he really did *play* on that songs.

I mean, MJ playing guitar - c'mon,no way...

And as for the *marketing* bit - my point was, if he really could PLAY, his people would have used that for marketing in a broader sense of marketing, like including it in videos, having him play at least rythm guitar on stage etc.

In other words - crediting someone on records for guitar, keyboards etc normally isn't for saying "hobbyist level only" but meant as "he/she played the instruments on it".

But to be fair - lots of ppl doin that, Lenny Kravitz at the beggining of his career couldn't play shit on guitar, still he took every opportunity there was to credit himself for playing all the instruments; and there are plenty of other examples.
[Edited 4/12/06 8:29am]