One of the pieces from Pop Bitch this week that's actually true... apparently:


>> Es are good, Es are good <<
Police officers prefer a smiley culture

Must be hard to be a rebellious teenager these
days. Even the police are trendy. The pigs
used to spend their time shutting down raves,
arresting drug dealers and generally trying
to stop us having any fun. It's all changed.
Fed up with the gang culture, weapons carrying
and general moodiness in West End members bars
and clubs, police are now going round actively
encouraging clubs to change from R&B and
hip-hop to house music. Because taking
ecstasy makes you nicer.

FYI: If you missed it - the man who took 40,000 pills:
http://www.guardian.co.uk...33,00.html

Great news. I hope the our police do the same here. We have shootings and stabbings in my city every day and many of these occur in our entertainment district.

kisscamille said:

In which city do you live? And do you believe R&B and hip hop are correlational to these crimes?
[Edited 4/6/06 9:47am]

Lammastide said:

I live in Toronto and yes I do believe hip/hop/rap are a correlational to these crimes. Why? Because most gun play in my city comes from the black population. Also, when I hear of stabbings and shootings that occur in my entertainment district, the suspect is more often than not a person of colour.

I'm not saying that all crime in Toronto is caused by people of colour, but I do know for a fact that most of the gun play is done by blacks. My city used to be fairly safe, but now it's become a city where many people are afraid to go out at night and we know what neighbourhoods to stay away from. Unfortunately, I live in one of those neighbouhoods. It wasn't always a high crime neighbourhood, but over the past 5-10 years, that's what it's become. I also stay away from the clubs because the stabbings and shootings have gotten way out of hand.

Hip/hop/rap is sending the wrong message to youth and many are getting caught up in it and doing nothing with their lives.

It's an interesting chicken/egg dilemma to me.

Does hip hop fuel disenfranchisement or is it simply a creative vent for certain groups who've longer felt it?

I personally think art should as much give vision of what life could be like when we transcend certain societal ills as simply a vehicle for lamenting them and blindly turning to anger and self-destruction. But 1) there's something to be said about even difficult social commentary; and 2) not all hip hop falls into the nihilistic paradigm of the latter. The BEST of it -- and, unfortunately, the stuff that doesn't enjoy the bulk of club and radio play -- is amazingly uplifting. And that's always been the case. It's a shame it continues to get overlooked.

As hip hop, race and crime goes, a few things:
1) You know who buys the bulk of hip hop -- especially in a place like Canada? It's not black kids. It's suburban white kids, and that's been true for years.

2) Of the black people who listen to hip hop, you do know the vast majority do not commit violent crime, right?


3) Just because the assailants in Toronto's recent crimes are often people of color, it doesn't mean that they are hip hop fans. Nor does it mean that IF they are, they were inspired to action by hip hop.
[Edited 4/6/06 10:34am]

Lammastide said:

Yes, it is a shame that some good, positive hip/hop is getting overlooked. It seems to me that many people are only interested in the negative side and thug life that surrounds it.

Your position on this, particularly, interests me, kisscamille, because I am currently considering a relocation to Toronto. Some of the recent news from there -- and some of the fallout in terms of people's perceptions of blacks from American, their perceived culture, etc. -- concern me.

I understand people's thoughts, but I think they might be misplaced, misunderstood or skewed. I'm certainly not attacking you, though. Thanks for your thoughts, in fact. They give me context.
[Edited 4/6/06 10:36am]

Lammastide said:

Yes, I think they are skewed too, but when we turn on the news each night and soneone has been shot by a black person, what should the rest of the population think?? It's obvious to me what we all think even if it's not right. Most of us don't want to be racist, but when this is all we see, what should we do?? Toronto is a good city in many ways, but it scares me to think of how unsafe it's become and how much worse it's getting. The black youth seem to blame "the man" for all their problems. I don't agree with this, but it's what I've heard some of them say. It's a sad situation indeed.

kisscamille said:

I'm not as well versed on race relations in Canada as the U.S. Has there been a long history of tensions?

...And, I'm curious, of the younger generatyion of black people who've recently moved to Toronto, are they U.S. expatriates or do they largely come from other places, like the Caribbean? And are they easily absrobed into the economy, the job market, etc?
[Edited 4/6/06 10:39am]

Lammastide said:

I don't believe we have had a long history of severe tensions. It seems to me that most of the tension has occured over the past 5 years. I believe the majority of new immigrants have come from the Caribbean. Having said that, I have visited the Caribbean many times over the years and anyone I've ever come in contact with has seemed good, hard working and decent.

kisscamille said:

Sort of what I suspected. May I suggest a few things?

My hunch is, given the way "tourism" sort of works, that the Caribbean citizens with whom you came in contact were probably amid the most comfortable (or at least gainfully employed) there. When you go on vacation, for example, what travel agent, resort, etc., wants to show off the poorest or most disenfranchised of a society? Know what I mean?

If we go further, those very comfortable islanders have no reason to leave. Their disenfranchised countrymen do, however and -- as is the case with many immigrant populations -- it is that contingient that presents itself to other accepting nations. Many are trying to find a better life, but some do bring along the problems that have long plagued them.

How to deal with this? Hell if I know. And I hope we can all figure this out. But good jobs, better absorption, etc. would work wonders.

This, of course, offers no excuse for the crime Toronto's been seeing, but I think it may add some breadth to the issue.

So I think the culprit is more economics and social ills than hip hop.
[Edited 4/6/06 11:05am]

Lammastide said:

Thanks for your insight. It's much appreciated and I do agree with a lot of what you have said. I would love to see something happen that would encourage these youths to stay in school and get a good education. We all know that with a good education anything is possible. I also believe that it's very important for these youths to have a father figure around. Many do not and this doesn't help their situation. I also believe that the black communities must get more involved in politics and change, instead of just complaining about all the things that are wrong.

kisscamille said:

I agree. I pray, though, that this is all seen as a partnership.

When the young lady was accidentally shot in front of Foot Locker on Yonge this past fall, I'm aware there was lots of talk about launching anti-violence programs for youth. But when I watched the news there, I don't think I saw a single black authority figure talked to. If, in fact, new Caribbean immigrants are disproportionately implicated in scenes like this, those one-sided initiatives will never work. There has definitely got to be some cross-cultural dialog.

I'm hopeful, though, that Canada can do a better job in many ways than the U.S. At least there seems to be some desire for understanding and improvement -- not just age-old political posturing.
[Edited 4/6/06 11:15am]

Lammastide said:

I try to be hopeful too. I don't want to live in a country where there is hate and racism. It only leads to more hate and violence.

I would love to see the black authority figures in my city speak up and act out. I'm not sure where they are though. I do see some on occasion, but their presence is few and far between. Perhaps they're not getting the chance to speak out while on tv, but regardless of that, I hope they are sending messages through the church and other community gatherings.

Lammastide said:

My fake boyfriend manages a restaurant bar in a suburb of LA and they wanted to have a hip hop night and the cops showed up and told them they didn't want them doing it or they would need to hire security galore because of the problems that come with the clientelle who are into the music. Now whether the club would have had problems had they gone through with it, I don't know. But that was the reaction of the cops when they got wind of it

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

Well, I know a lot of people are down on the cops, but you have to remember that they see this shit everynight. They know what's going on. My cousin is a police officer in Toronto and he said it would blow my mind to know how bad the city really is. He was the one who told me and my family members to stay away from the clubs. He said we have no idea how bad things really are.