New topic
PrintableStoneCrib said: jacktheimprovident said: If live performance is the only proof you'll accept, I think that's somewhat of an unfair standard since nobody's posted any videos of prince in this debate either. Even if it weren't, the absence of "proof" for stevie's drum skills doesn't prove that prince is a better drummer, only that prince's skills are known and stevie's aren't. Prince would probably have a bone to pick with you about claiming that he's a better drummer than stevie anyway. Btw, the full comment that prince made was "stevie's a great drummer, but on record his drums sound terrible" which attests to the fact that stevie's skills are actually belied by the studio, not enhanced by it. I'm pretty sure you can find about 3,000 Prince fans here that can attest to Prince's live drumming skills. Just go next door to the Prince Music room and ask and trust me, u'll get MORE than your share of answers and responses. And we all know how people like to be gracious when they speak of their idols so P is no different. P wasnt asked who was better between the 2 of them and that's the WHOLE topic here. I'm pretty sure if P were to truly go up against Stevie in a drum contest P would beat him. This is so retarded. Go over to the Stevie Yahoo Group if you need some fans to sustantiate Stevie. I have seen both men on drums in concert. Both are good. I'm not into the "who's dick is bigger" contest, but if you aren't aware that Stevie has always been an accomplished drummer then you really don't know what you are talking about. test | |
- E-mail - orgNote -  Report post to moderator |
StoneCrib said: PFunkjazz said: I don't know of any instances of Stevie playing guitar; nor do I find him playing electric bass. However, he has recorded and performed songs without a bass player, wherein he's playing a keyboard bass. Also a lot of his synthesizers are programmed to emulate a guitar, so this is probabaly where it's getting confused. Not even close to being the same as playing the actual instruments. Do you even understand that I made your argument FOR YOU? test | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
PFunkjazz said: StoneCrib said: I'm pretty sure you can find about 3,000 Prince fans here that can attest to Prince's live drumming skills. Just go next door to the Prince Music room and ask and trust me, u'll get MORE than your share of answers and responses. And we all know how people like to be gracious when they speak of their idols so P is no different. P wasnt asked who was better between the 2 of them and that's the WHOLE topic here. I'm pretty sure if P were to truly go up against Stevie in a drum contest P would beat him. This is so retarded. Go over to the Stevie Yahoo Group if you need some fans to sustantiate Stevie. I have seen both men on drums in concert. Both are good. I'm not into the "who's dick is bigger" contest, but if you aren't aware that Stevie has always been an accomplished drummer then you really don't know what you are talking about. The onus isn't on ME to prove YOUR side. You're the buster that's trying to say Stevie is better on drums than P. I want YOU to come up with some evidence other than "His credits on his album" any fool can come up with that comment, but since it's not in your make-up to prove your side then this really needs no more discussion with you on it. Living to die and I'll die to live again - 360 degrees - comprehend | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
PFunkjazz said: StoneCrib said: Not even close to being the same as playing the actual instruments. Do you even understand that I made your argument FOR YOU? Um, you didnt make jack shit for me. All I was commenting on was his use of synth doesn't compare to being well versed on the real instruments. Living to die and I'll die to live again - 360 degrees - comprehend | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
That's a hard choice since they are my top two favorites. But I'll have to give the edge to Stevie. | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
my lord...new albums always brings out the fiesty in folks....
some people say im nice... some people say im nasty... but if you want to know: just call me, nicety?  Space for sale... | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
StoneCrib said: PFunkjazz said: This is so retarded. Go over to the Stevie Yahoo Group if you need some fans to sustantiate Stevie. I have seen both men on drums in concert. Both are good. I'm not into the "who's dick is bigger" contest, but if you aren't aware that Stevie has always been an accomplished drummer then you really don't know what you are talking about. The onus isn't on ME to prove YOUR side. You're the buster that's trying to say Stevie is better on drums than P. I want YOU to come up with some evidence other than "His credits on his album" any fool can come up with that comment, but since it's not in your make-up to prove your side then this really needs no more discussion with you on it. I still don't see why there's any burden of proof on our part. Album credits should be sufficient proof unless you're dealing with manufactured popstars who gain royalties for things they aren't responsible for purely contractual reasons, which neither stevie nor prince are. Besides there IS plenty of FOOTAGE of stevie playing the drums, forgive us if we don't have it readily available (I don't have access to it personally though I have seen it). There are plenty of fans, colleagues and just general musical cognoscenti who have praised his skill as a drummer as well, do you just assume they're all lying (including prince)? Just as another reference, go watch "Standing in the shadows of motown". the funk brothers, motown's studio band, all of whom had a jazz pedigree in the chop department have praised stevie's musicianship, citing him as one of the few motown performers that they felt was one of their peers. Ivory Joe Hunter recalled how stevie would bug him to teach him some things on the keyboards, so he showed him a few chords and scales and finger exercises and then found out a year later that "he didn't need me, he'd learned more than I knew. And then I saw Benny [Benjamin,the funk brothers' drummer] showing stevie how to play the drums and..I don't think he needed Benny either" . Should I have to post footage of Elvin Jones or Mitch Mitchell on the drums in order to prove that they're superior drummers to prince? No, there's no need to cast that level of doubt on what I hear on record. I've never seen Elvin Jones live, but I can assume that the credits are honest because I've been given no reason to think there was any dishonesty. Sure, credits can be doctored, but it's an unreasonable level of doubt to automatically assume that they have been in every case, especially perrtaining to such accomplished artists as elvin jones or stevie wonder whose integrity have been repeatedly validated. Sure, it's commendable to question assumptions and not swallow everything you've been spoon food, but I've looked into stevie and prince's backgrounds and found that there isn't any accusation of dishonesty against Stevie, though there is against prince in some cases. Besides, often times a musicians' chops are MORE impressive live than in the studio, ala Jimi Hendrix (and there are a few live albums and concert footage from the 70s of Stevie's in the UK recently that you could check out too: Musik Laden, Rainbow Theater specifically). | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
jacktheimprovident said: StoneCrib said: The onus isn't on ME to prove YOUR side. You're the buster that's trying to say Stevie is better on drums than P. I want YOU to come up with some evidence other than "His credits on his album" any fool can come up with that comment, but since it's not in your make-up to prove your side then this really needs no more discussion with you on it. I still don't see why there's any burden of proof on our part. Album credits should be sufficient proof unless you're dealing with manufactured popstars who gain royalties for things they aren't responsible for purely contractual reasons, which neither stevie nor prince are. Besides there IS plenty of FOOTAGE of stevie playing the drums, forgive us if we don't have it readily available (I don't have access to it personally though I have seen it). There are plenty of fans, colleagues and just general musical cognoscenti who have praised his skill as a drummer as well, do you just assume they're all lying (including prince)? Just as another reference, go watch "Standing in the shadows of motown". the funk brothers, motown's studio band, all of whom had a jazz pedigree in the chop department have praised stevie's musicianship, citing him as one of the few motown performers that they felt was one of their peers. Ivory Joe Hunter recalled how stevie would bug him to teach him some things on the keyboards, so he showed him a few chords and scales and finger exercises and then found out a year later that "he didn't need me, he'd learned more than I knew. And then I saw Benny [Benjamin,the funk brothers' drummer] showing stevie how to play the drums and..I don't think he needed Benny either" . Should I have to post footage of Elvin Jones or Mitch Mitchell on the drums in order to prove that they're superior drummers to prince? No, there's no need to cast that level of doubt on what I hear on record. I've never seen Elvin Jones live, but I can assume that the credits are honest because I've been given no reason to think there was any dishonesty. Sure, credits can be doctored, but it's an unreasonable level of doubt to automatically assume that they have been in every case, especially perrtaining to such accomplished artists as elvin jones or stevie wonder whose integrity have been repeatedly validated. Sure, it's commendable to question assumptions and not swallow everything you've been spoon food, but I've looked into stevie and prince's backgrounds and found that there isn't any accusation of dishonesty against Stevie, though there is against prince in some cases. Besides, often times a musicians' chops are MORE impressive live than in the studio, ala Jimi Hendrix (and there are a few live albums and concert footage from the 70s of Stevie's in the UK recently that you could check out too: Musik Laden, Rainbow Theater specifically). IMO u are spending too much time commenting on things that are 100% obvious to anyone that knows deal....I do...and im with u...but this is silly...  Stevie was the model that Prince was trying to follow when he started out...DUH ????!!! | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
jacktheimprovident said: StoneCrib said: The onus isn't on ME to prove YOUR side. You're the buster that's trying to say Stevie is better on drums than P. I want YOU to come up with some evidence other than "His credits on his album" any fool can come up with that comment, but since it's not in your make-up to prove your side then this really needs no more discussion with you on it. I still don't see why there's any burden of proof on our part. Album credits should be sufficient proof unless you're dealing with manufactured popstars who gain royalties for things they aren't responsible for purely contractual reasons, which neither stevie nor prince are. Besides there IS plenty of FOOTAGE of stevie playing the drums, forgive us if we don't have it readily available (I don't have access to it personally though I have seen it). There are plenty of fans, colleagues and just general musical cognoscenti who have praised his skill as a drummer as well, do you just assume they're all lying (including prince)? Just as another reference, go watch "Standing in the shadows of motown". the funk brothers, motown's studio band, all of whom had a jazz pedigree in the chop department have praised stevie's musicianship, citing him as one of the few motown performers that they felt was one of their peers. Ivory Joe Hunter recalled how stevie would bug him to teach him some things on the keyboards, so he showed him a few chords and scales and finger exercises and then found out a year later that "he didn't need me, he'd learned more than I knew. And then I saw Benny [Benjamin,the funk brothers' drummer] showing stevie how to play the drums and..I don't think he needed Benny either" . Should I have to post footage of Elvin Jones or Mitch Mitchell on the drums in order to prove that they're superior drummers to prince? No, there's no need to cast that level of doubt on what I hear on record. I've never seen Elvin Jones live, but I can assume that the credits are honest because I've been given no reason to think there was any dishonesty. Sure, credits can be doctored, but it's an unreasonable level of doubt to automatically assume that they have been in every case, especially perrtaining to such accomplished artists as elvin jones or stevie wonder whose integrity have been repeatedly validated. Sure, it's commendable to question assumptions and not swallow everything you've been spoon food, but I've looked into stevie and prince's backgrounds and found that there isn't any accusation of dishonesty against Stevie, though there is against prince in some cases. Besides, often times a musicians' chops are MORE impressive live than in the studio, ala Jimi Hendrix (and there are a few live albums and concert footage from the 70s of Stevie's in the UK recently that you could check out too: Musik Laden, Rainbow Theater specifically). The burden is on you because those that believe P is a better drummer have proof to go on. Sorry, but that's just the way it is. If there's no much proof that Stevie's the better drummer then how come it takes the deepest of Stevie fan's to say "It's true!" when not even the casual Stevie fan can concur? That's all I'm saying. It's cool. Like I said, they're both geniuses but P is the better overall musician. Anyone that can't see that is pretty much just hating on P for the sake of hating on P. Living to die and I'll die to live again - 360 degrees - comprehend | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
Oh stop it people! Stevie Wonder and Prince are two of the most talented musical genuises of all time,period.There's no need to argue about who is more talented. | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
DavidEye said: Oh stop it people! Stevie Wonder and Prince are two of the most talented musical genuises of all time,period.There's no need to argue about who is more talented.
 
Besides that's a no win argument in the first place! | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
StoneCrib said: Graycap23 said: the harmonica? Lol..... Yeah, I wanted to laugh out loud on that one when I read it too, as if the harmonica is some amazing instrument that only few have conquered. I'm not slighting Stevie, but to use the harmonica as an example of one of his many instruments is almost a slap in his face and HUGE victory in favor of Prince. Right u are....Ure opinion is right young padawan.....lol Prince beaten in the musical arena he cannot be Luminous beings are we...not this crude matter.
Is this 2morrow or just the END of time? The Funk will always b with u "I've got a face, not just my race, Bang Bang I've got you babe!" | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
StoneCrib said: Some of you guys are funny. Some of you are quoting what Prince has "said" and then say "check the credits" but we CAN speak on P playing the drums because we have seen him do so. Credits don't do it for me, sorry. It's easy to pump up the drums through the mastering and all that jazz but this is about what we know and see for the most part and I have YET to see Stevie take to the set but I HAVE seen P hit the skins and do it well.
couldn't have said it better!Live is what I want proof of, not the damn record, that doesn't tell me shit. Luminous beings are we...not this crude matter.
Is this 2morrow or just the END of time? The Funk will always b with u "I've got a face, not just my race, Bang Bang I've got you babe!" | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
StoneCrib said: jacktheimprovident said: There is footage of stevie on the drums live. I don't know if anyone's posted any of those on youtube or anything yet because I don't have any copies of what I've seen. Even if there weren't, the album credits are good enough for me unless I've been given reason to think they've been defrauded, which I haven't in stevie's case. Most of prince's more impressive drumming that I've heard is in the studio anyway, I've never been too impressed by what I've seen him do live. Obviously you're more of a prince fan but it's still kind of amusing how hostile and incredulous of stevie's abilities you are. Short of calling up stevie and asking him to do a drum solo in your house, there's little I can do to prove to you beyond a shadow of a doubt that stevie's a great drummer except for the album credits and the testimony of numerous musicians who've worked with him, including prince himself (and for the record a friend of mine is a drummer and has seen footage of stevie on the skins and commented that he had "very tastey chops"). Oh and supposedly stevie actually has played real bass and guitar in a few instances, feel free to disprove them if you must it's a shame by the spinners-bass let's get serious by jermaine jackson-guitar fun day (off jungle fever)-bass Other cases where it sounds like he's played guitar or bass could have been clavinets or synth bass disguised as such but I find it funny that people are so skeptical of stevie being able to play those particular instruments. I'm sure it's easier for a blind man whose primary instrument is the keyboard to play guitar and bass parts on synth but most classically trained musicians (which stevie is) have a working knowledge of guitar and it's not like it's such a tough instrument to learn. [Edited 3/27/06 16:08pm] [Edited 3/27/06 16:19pm] Proof, bro. That's all I ask. If you stick out your chest and start speaking on something the least you can do is provide proof. Like I said, we have proof of Prince drumming but we have no proof of Stevie drumming. We have proof of Stevie playing harmonica and keys/synth but not of drumming, so what does that possibly tell you? That he's not as good as P is on the skins. Simple as that. Just show me proof before you come in here acting like the man. [Edited 3/28/06 5:28am] Luminous beings are we...not this crude matter.
Is this 2morrow or just the END of time? The Funk will always b with u "I've got a face, not just my race, Bang Bang I've got you babe!" | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
YODAHENDRIX said: StoneCrib said: Proof, bro. That's all I ask. If you stick out your chest and start speaking on something the least you can do is provide proof. Like I said, we have proof of Prince drumming but we have no proof of Stevie drumming. We have proof of Stevie playing harmonica and keys/synth but not of drumming, so what does that possibly tell you? That he's not as good as P is on the skins. Simple as that. Just show me proof before you come in here acting like the man. [Edited 3/28/06 5:28am] that was some bullshit in sign o the times...to be honest i have every piece of prince footage circulating and i aint never seen him tearin the drums up...of course he can rock it...he's prince...but i bet morris would be able to hang or do better than prince...and surely stevie would be able to hold his own and match whatever prince can do...PLEASE!!!!!??? any musicians here that are mature..not on princes dick and know real music and funk soul history would know all about stevie and what he is capable of doing!!!!!..... | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
prettymansson said: YODAHENDRIX said: Oh its the Jack dude again with his quotes on stevie and never any proof.....actually Stone Crib there is footage that i have seen of Stevie wonder playing the drums it was shown on The Uks the South Bank Show around the Conversation Peace era...they showed Stevie playing and laying down the drums for Living For The City back in 72-73....it was good...but....in no way could it compare with what ive seen Prince do...Sign O the Times Movie anyone????
[Edited 3/28/06 5:28am] that was some bullshit in sign o the times...to be honest i have every piece of prince footage circulating and i aint never seen him tearin the drums up...of course he can rock it...he's prince...but i bet morris would be able to hang or do better than prince...and surely stevie would be able to hold his own and match whatever prince can do...PLEASE!!!!!??? any musicians here that are mature..not on princes dick and know real music and funk soul history would know all about stevie and what he is capable of doing!!!!!..... Luminous beings are we...not this crude matter.
Is this 2morrow or just the END of time? The Funk will always b with u "I've got a face, not just my race, Bang Bang I've got you babe!" | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
YODAHENDRIX said: StoneCrib said: Proof, bro. That's all I ask. If you stick out your chest and start speaking on something the least you can do is provide proof. Like I said, we have proof of Prince drumming but we have no proof of Stevie drumming. We have proof of Stevie playing harmonica and keys/synth but not of drumming, so what does that possibly tell you? That he's not as good as P is on the skins. Simple as that. Just show me proof before you come in here acting like the man. [Edited 3/28/06 5:28am] Now see, that's all I was asking. Someone to quote a specific concert instead of "He does it all the time" but yet no one else has seen it, at least no one thta has chimed in on this debate. Thanks bro. Living to die and I'll die to live again - 360 degrees - comprehend | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
COULDN'T AGREE MORE
I just wish StoneCrib would shaaarrraaaap! DavidEye said: Oh stop it people! Stevie Wonder and Prince are two of the most talented musical genuises of all time,period.There's no need to argue about who is more talented. M.2.K
 | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
StoneCrib said: YODAHENDRIX said: Oh its the Jack dude again with his quotes on stevie and never any proof.....actually Stone Crib there is footage that i have seen of Stevie wonder playing the drums it was shown on The Uks the South Bank Show around the Conversation Peace era...they showed Stevie playing and laying down the drums for Living For The City back in 72-73....it was good...but....in no way could it compare with what ive seen Prince do...Sign O the Times Movie anyone????
[Edited 3/28/06 5:28am] Now see, that's all I was asking. Someone to quote a specific concert instead of "He does it all the time" but yet no one else has seen it, at least no one thta has chimed in on this debate. Thanks bro. oh it's that Yoda dude, who insists on having notarized photos of every reference that might reflect unfavorably on prince. Seriously people, some of us around here have gone way overboard on the purple kool aid. You're gonna call what Prince did on the drums on the Sign O' The Times concert incredible drumming? My drummer friend was not impressed when I showed him that (he was more so with different studio drum tracks of prince's like crystal ball and let's work). He was impressed however by some drum tracks of stevie's I'd played for him. That living for the city footage isn't the only footage out there. I hope they give an official release of his musik laden and rainbow theater concerts because he takes up the drums in a few parts on those if I remember correctly. Anyway, I'm done. I'm through trying to argue that prince may not be the absolute brightest star in the universe against rabid prince fans. The fact that stevie is so as staunchly defended and that he has as many people that prefer him on a prince site says something. Besides, I was never arguing who was the better overall artist/multi-instrumentalist, as that's far too big a can of worms and almost always seem to boil down to the trying to prove/disprove how well each can play what instrument (which is pretty petty if you ask me). If anything I give a slight edge to prince as a multi-instrumentalist, though I wouldn't declare 100% who's got more chops on more instruments because I don't think anyone knows for sure and I wouldn't underestimate either of them. BUT when you say that you're so sure that prince is a better drummer, that just screams ignorance to me. [Edited 3/28/06 10:24am] | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
StoneCrib said: jacktheimprovident said: I still don't see why there's any burden of proof on our part. Album credits should be sufficient proof unless you're dealing with manufactured popstars who gain royalties for things they aren't responsible for purely contractual reasons, which neither stevie nor prince are. Besides there IS plenty of FOOTAGE of stevie playing the drums, forgive us if we don't have it readily available (I don't have access to it personally though I have seen it). There are plenty of fans, colleagues and just general musical cognoscenti who have praised his skill as a drummer as well, do you just assume they're all lying (including prince)? Just as another reference, go watch "Standing in the shadows of motown". the funk brothers, motown's studio band, all of whom had a jazz pedigree in the chop department have praised stevie's musicianship, citing him as one of the few motown performers that they felt was one of their peers. Ivory Joe Hunter recalled how stevie would bug him to teach him some things on the keyboards, so he showed him a few chords and scales and finger exercises and then found out a year later that "he didn't need me, he'd learned more than I knew. And then I saw Benny [Benjamin,the funk brothers' drummer] showing stevie how to play the drums and..I don't think he needed Benny either" . Should I have to post footage of Elvin Jones or Mitch Mitchell on the drums in order to prove that they're superior drummers to prince? No, there's no need to cast that level of doubt on what I hear on record. I've never seen Elvin Jones live, but I can assume that the credits are honest because I've been given no reason to think there was any dishonesty. Sure, credits can be doctored, but it's an unreasonable level of doubt to automatically assume that they have been in every case, especially perrtaining to such accomplished artists as elvin jones or stevie wonder whose integrity have been repeatedly validated. Sure, it's commendable to question assumptions and not swallow everything you've been spoon food, but I've looked into stevie and prince's backgrounds and found that there isn't any accusation of dishonesty against Stevie, though there is against prince in some cases. Besides, often times a musicians' chops are MORE impressive live than in the studio, ala Jimi Hendrix (and there are a few live albums and concert footage from the 70s of Stevie's in the UK recently that you could check out too: Musik Laden, Rainbow Theater specifically). The burden is on you because those that believe P is a better drummer have proof to go on. Sorry, but that's just the way it is. If there's no much proof that Stevie's the better drummer then how come it takes the deepest of Stevie fan's to say "It's true!" when not even the casual Stevie fan can concur? That's all I'm saying. It's cool. Like I said, they're both geniuses but P is the better overall musician. Anyone that can't see that is pretty much just hating on P for the sake of hating on P. Oh, one last thing, depending on what you consider the "casual" level of fanhood, I bet a lot of "casual" prince don't even know he plays drums given how many of his classic period albums and songs are dominated by drum machines. | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
papaa said: COULDN'T AGREE MORE
I just wish StoneCrib would shaaarrraaaap! DavidEye said: Oh stop it people! Stevie Wonder and Prince are two of the most talented musical genuises of all time,period.There's no need to argue about who is more talented. Don't dance around an insult, at the very LEAST be man enough to type it out. Cowardice will only make a person look more foolish. Living to die and I'll die to live again - 360 degrees - comprehend | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
jacktheimprovident said: StoneCrib said: Now see, that's all I was asking. Someone to quote a specific concert instead of "He does it all the time" but yet no one else has seen it, at least no one thta has chimed in on this debate. Thanks bro. oh it's that Yoda dude, who insists on having notarized photos of every reference that might reflect unfavorably on prince. Seriously people, some of us around here have gone way overboard on the purple kool aid. You're gonna call what Prince did on the drums on the Sign O' The Times concert incredible drumming? My drummer friend was not impressed when I showed him that (he was more so with different studio drum tracks of prince's like crystal ball and let's work). He was impressed however by some drum tracks of stevie's I'd played for him. That living for the city footage isn't the only footage out there. I hope they give an official release of his musik laden and rainbow theater concerts because he takes up the drums in a few parts on those if I remember correctly. Anyway, I'm done. I'm through trying to argue that prince may not be the absolute brightest star in the universe against rabid prince fans. The fact that stevie is so as staunchly defended and that he has as many people that prefer him on a prince site says something. Besides, I was never arguing who was the better overall artist/multi-instrumentalist, as that's far too big a can of worms and almost always seem to boil down to the trying to prove/disprove how well each can play what instrument (which is pretty petty if you ask me). If anything I give a slight edge to prince as a multi-instrumentalist, though I wouldn't declare 100% who's got more chops on more instruments because I don't think anyone knows for sure and I wouldn't underestimate either of them. BUT when you say that you're so sure that prince is a better drummer, that just screams ignorance to me. [Edited 3/28/06 10:24am] It's ok, bro. Like I said, this isn't JUST about drumming vs drumming, this is about who's the better overall musician and only the foolish believe that Stevie is a better overall musician than Prince. ONLY the foolish. Living to die and I'll die to live again - 360 degrees - comprehend | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
jacktheimprovident said: StoneCrib said: The burden is on you because those that believe P is a better drummer have proof to go on. Sorry, but that's just the way it is. If there's no much proof that Stevie's the better drummer then how come it takes the deepest of Stevie fan's to say "It's true!" when not even the casual Stevie fan can concur? That's all I'm saying. It's cool. Like I said, they're both geniuses but P is the better overall musician. Anyone that can't see that is pretty much just hating on P for the sake of hating on P. Oh, one last thing, depending on what you consider the "casual" level of fanhood, I bet a lot of "casual" prince don't even know he plays drums given how many of his classic period albums and songs are dominated by drum machines. It's simple. His 1st album reveals that and even WB backs that up that he INSISTED he play ALL the instruments, the backing Vox, and write and produce. It's DOCUMENTED, so therefore it's easy to ascertain that he played the drums back then - before the drum machines took off - even the casual Prince fan would know this. Thanks for playing though.  Living to die and I'll die to live again - 360 degrees - comprehend | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
StoneCrib said: YODAHENDRIX said: Oh its the Jack dude again with his quotes on stevie and never any proof.....actually Stone Crib there is footage that i have seen of Stevie wonder playing the drums it was shown on The Uks the South Bank Show around the Conversation Peace era...they showed Stevie playing and laying down the drums for Living For The City back in 72-73....it was good...but....in no way could it compare with what ive seen Prince do...Sign O the Times Movie anyone????
[Edited 3/28/06 5:28am] Now see, that's all I was asking. Someone to quote a specific concert instead of "He does it all the time" but yet no one else has seen it, at least no one thta has chimed in on this debate. Thanks bro. But he still didn't provide any REAL evidence; he just recounted something like Jack and a couple others did, only with a bit more detail. If he hadn't have slammed Jack at the beginning of his post (running to your side afterwards) and saying at the end "no way could it compare with what I've seen Prince do", would you really be thanking him? | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
StoneCrib said: jacktheimprovident said: Oh, one last thing, depending on what you consider the "casual" level of fanhood, I bet a lot of "casual" prince don't even know he plays drums given how many of his classic period albums and songs are dominated by drum machines. It's simple. His 1st album reveals that and even WB backs that up that he INSISTED he play ALL the instruments, the backing Vox, and write and produce. It's DOCUMENTED, so therefore it's easy to ascertain that he played the drums back then - before the drum machines took off - even the casual Prince fan would know this. Thanks for playing though. Um, it's just as DOCUMENTED, and just as INSISTED by Motown, that Stevie was responsible for ALL the instruments, backing vox, songwriting and production on Music of My Mind, Talking Book, Innervisions and Fulfillingness' First Finale (barring a few bit parts), so it's just as easy to ascertain that he played the drums back then as well. Now you've just proven that you're a hypocrit by using prince's studio work as proof of his skill when you won't accept the same evidence for stevie. In actuality Stevie's album credits have MORE veracity than prince's, because there isn't anybody in stevie's camp who claims to have played something on his albums that he didn't get credit for (e.g. Andre Cymone for Prince). It's obvious to me that you simply aren't aware of stevie's one-man-band credentials. The whole one-man-everything model of record making wasn't invented by prince, it was pioneered by Stevie, Paul McCartney, and Sly Stone. Prince's insistence on claiming responsibility for 100% of every level of creation of his music (even when it wasn't always the case) was an attempt on his part to reach the same level of prestige as his predecessors like Stevie. Prince has certain skills that Stevie doesn't, but the reverse is true as well. If an artists' quality was determined solely by their proficiency on several instruments there are tons of people who can run rings around both prince and stevie (todd rundgren for example), but I wouldn't necessarily rank them higher or even as high as the blind master or his purple majesty because the music they make may not be as good, even if their technical skill is superior. | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
It's really a matter of personal taste when it comes to Prince and Stevie. I love them both.
This is a much better comparison that say Prince Vs Michael Jackson. Mj isn't even a musician so I really don't get that comparison anyway. | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
squiddyren said: StoneCrib said: Now see, that's all I was asking. Someone to quote a specific concert instead of "He does it all the time" but yet no one else has seen it, at least no one thta has chimed in on this debate. Thanks bro. But he still didn't provide any REAL evidence; he just recounted something like Jack and a couple others did, only with a bit more detail. If he hadn't have slammed Jack at the beginning of his post (running to your side afterwards) and saying at the end "no way could it compare with what I've seen Prince do", would you really be thanking him? Yeah, I feel you, but he provided more than what anyone else was providing so it's all good. Living to die and I'll die to live again - 360 degrees - comprehend | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
jacktheimprovident said: StoneCrib said: It's simple. His 1st album reveals that and even WB backs that up that he INSISTED he play ALL the instruments, the backing Vox, and write and produce. It's DOCUMENTED, so therefore it's easy to ascertain that he played the drums back then - before the drum machines took off - even the casual Prince fan would know this. Thanks for playing though. Um, it's just as DOCUMENTED, and just as INSISTED by Motown, that Stevie was responsible for ALL the instruments, backing vox, songwriting and production on Music of My Mind, Talking Book, Innervisions and Fulfillingness' First Finale (barring a few bit parts), so it's just as easy to ascertain that he played the drums back then as well. Now you've just proven that you're a hypocrit by using prince's studio work as proof of his skill when you won't accept the same evidence for stevie. In actuality Stevie's album credits have MORE veracity than prince's, because there isn't anybody in stevie's camp who claims to have played something on his albums that he didn't get credit for (e.g. Andre Cymone for Prince). It's obvious to me that you simply aren't aware of stevie's one-man-band credentials. The whole one-man-everything model of record making wasn't invented by prince, it was pioneered by Stevie, Paul McCartney, and Sly Stone. Prince's insistence on claiming responsibility for 100% of every level of creation of his music (even when it wasn't always the case) was an attempt on his part to reach the same level of prestige as his predecessors like Stevie. Prince has certain skills that Stevie doesn't, but the reverse is true as well. If an artists' quality was determined solely by their proficiency on several instruments there are tons of people who can run rings around both prince and stevie (todd rundgren for example), but I wouldn't necessarily rank them higher or even as high as the blind master or his purple majesty because the music they make may not be as good, even if their technical skill is superior. Like I said, if it's documented then it's all good. Again, this isn't an anti-Stevie thread but some of you have made this basically an anti-Prince thread. Living to die and I'll die to live again - 360 degrees - comprehend | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
StoneCrib said: jacktheimprovident said: Um, it's just as DOCUMENTED, and just as INSISTED by Motown, that Stevie was responsible for ALL the instruments, backing vox, songwriting and production on Music of My Mind, Talking Book, Innervisions and Fulfillingness' First Finale (barring a few bit parts), so it's just as easy to ascertain that he played the drums back then as well. Now you've just proven that you're a hypocrit by using prince's studio work as proof of his skill when you won't accept the same evidence for stevie. In actuality Stevie's album credits have MORE veracity than prince's, because there isn't anybody in stevie's camp who claims to have played something on his albums that he didn't get credit for (e.g. Andre Cymone for Prince). It's obvious to me that you simply aren't aware of stevie's one-man-band credentials. The whole one-man-everything model of record making wasn't invented by prince, it was pioneered by Stevie, Paul McCartney, and Sly Stone. Prince's insistence on claiming responsibility for 100% of every level of creation of his music (even when it wasn't always the case) was an attempt on his part to reach the same level of prestige as his predecessors like Stevie. Prince has certain skills that Stevie doesn't, but the reverse is true as well. If an artists' quality was determined solely by their proficiency on several instruments there are tons of people who can run rings around both prince and stevie (todd rundgren for example), but I wouldn't necessarily rank them higher or even as high as the blind master or his purple majesty because the music they make may not be as good, even if their technical skill is superior. Like I said, if it's documented then it's all good. Again, this isn't an anti-Stevie thread but some of you have made this basically an anti-Prince thread. Well I'm personally not trying to do that. But whenever these kind of comparison threads come up, there are lot of people who aren't completely informed about certain things. I'm not making a pronouncement one way or the other about who's the better artist but so many people will spring up and say things to the effect "keyboards, harmonica-stevie, guitar bass, drums-prince" simply because they're ignorant of the fact that stevie is an accomplished drummer. Saying you prefer prince or arguing that he's more versatile a multi-instrumentalist is one thing, but saying prince is a better drummer is usually a result of ignorance of stevie's skill. Prince could be a better drummer than I estimate him to be, but conversely stevie also could be an accomplished lead guitar player and have just never let anyone know about it. Both of them could have hidden skills, we can't say for sure, but to say stevie's skills as a drummer aren't demonstrated/documented is inaccurate. | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
jacktheimprovident said: StoneCrib said: Like I said, if it's documented then it's all good. Again, this isn't an anti-Stevie thread but some of you have made this basically an anti-Prince thread. Well I'm personally not trying to do that. But whenever these kind of comparison threads come up, there are lot of people who aren't completely informed about certain things. I'm not making a pronouncement one way or the other about who's the better artist but so many people will spring up and say things to the effect "keyboards, harmonica-stevie, guitar bass, drums-prince" simply because they're ignorant of the fact that stevie is an accomplished drummer. Saying you prefer prince or arguing that he's more versatile a multi-instrumentalist is one thing, but saying prince is a better drummer is usually a result of ignorance of stevie's skill. Prince could be a better drummer than I estimate him to be, but conversely stevie also could be an accomplished lead guitar player and have just never let anyone know about it. Both of them could have hidden skills, we can't say for sure, but to say stevie's skills as a drummer aren't demonstrated/documented is inaccurate.  Living to die and I'll die to live again - 360 degrees - comprehend | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |