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PrintableDarlingDiana said: VOCALS
Michael Jackson - pitch perfect, nice timbre, great falsetto, easy to listen to, known for vocal stylings such as "hee hee", "shamone" etc. 10/10 Prince - big range, great falsetto (one of his trademarks), nice timbre 8/10 DANCING Michael Jackson - undeniably the best contemporary dancer in the pop industry at the moment, has trademark moves (like the moonwalk, the crotch grab, the robot) 10/10 Prince - a good dancer, but doesn't have any moves that are recognisable as his7/10 INSTRUMENTAL Michael Jackson - credited as playing keyboard-type instruments, guitars and percussion (including kit) on various album, but is not known as an instrumentalist and has never performed any instrument (except vocals) on stage or even in a music video. 5/10 Prince - plays nearly every instrument on nearly every record, plays piano, guitar and drums on stage (and plays them well), is known as a great instrumentalist (expecially as a guitarist) 10/10 SONG-WRITING Michael Jackson - Inducted into the songwriter's hall of fame, has written some big hits (Don't Stop, Billie Jean, Beat It), writes a range of different styles (Billie Jean, Dirty Diana, Liberian Girl, Who Is It, Earth Song, Childhood), written great songs for other artists 8/10 Prince - Inducted into the songwriter's hall of fame, has written some big hits (1999, When Doves Cry, Nothing Compares 2 U), writes a range of different styles (Sexy Dancer, 1999, Darling Nikki, Venus Di Milo, Satisfied, Housequake), written alot great songs for other artists 10/10 (because he's had more output and less co-writers) STAGE Michael Jackson - world class stage performer, can sell-out concerts in any country in the world, only let down is he mimes about half the show for that he gives a point off (he would be 10/10 if he sung every song live) but he's amazing dancing and stage presence makes up for the lack of live vocals 9/10 Prince - world class performer, doesn't sell-out like MJ can, but with Prince it's always live so that makes up for not as good stage presence and dancing 9/10 SALES and CHARTS Michael Jackson - is one of the biggest selling albums of all-time, has the biggest selling album of all time, he sells millions and millions of each album he releases, his lowest selling studio album is BOTDF which sold 7 million (still a huge number so it goes to show how high his standard is), has had 13 billboard #1's 10/10 Prince - not a big seller, his biggest selling album is Purple Rain which sold 20 million (Off The Wall, Thriller, Bad and Dangerous all outsold this), these days he is selling less than 1 million with each album 6/10 MUSIC VIDEOS Michael Jackson - is world renowned for making great music videos, nearly every video he makes is dubbed video of the year by some awards organisation, and his TV premiers are always huge 10/10 Prince - hasn't made alot of great music videos (with the exception of a few) 5/10 FILM Michael Jackson - Has starred in The Wiz (in which he did a mildly good job) and also made the films Moonwalker and Ghosts, special-effects wise Moonwalker and Ghosts were brilliant, his acting in Moonwalker wasn't very good but his acting in Ghosts was very good, his storyline's aren't great, his films are mostly to showcase his songs and dancing 6/10 Prince - Purple Rain was brilliant (great music, great acting, good storyline), Under The Cherry Moon had great acting on Prince's part, Graffiti Bridge was shite in all aspects (music, acting, storyline) 8/10 INFLUENCE Michael Jackson - nearly every modern R&B and pop artist has been quoted as saying they were influenced by Michael Jackson, he has left a lasting impression on popular music 10/10 Prince - he has left a lasting impression on hip-hop and you can tell that most of the beats The Neptunes and the like create are derived from Prince and the Minneapolis sound (which he created) 10/10 HOW THEY STAND TODAY Michael Jackson - Has just been through a trial which crushed his public image, but kids still love his music (the Off The Wall, Thriller, Bad and Dangerous hits still get played in clubs and on radio), and it seems alot of current musicians and producers are still interested in working with him (Pharrel Williams, R Kelly, 50 Cent, Whoo Kid, Kanye West). Musically he still stands strong, but publically he is crushed 6/10 Prince - Prince has always been viewed as a weird person, but his music still stands strong, with his old hits being played on radio to this day (expecially in 1999 when 1999 was played constantly on radio), his new music doesn't sell or chart well and I doubt many kids know about 3121, but atleast he is still release music (unlike MJ, but he has a reason - the trial) 7/10 Neither artist stands well in today's music industry TOTAL Michael Jackson - 84/100 Prince - 80/100 Michael wins, but only by a little bit. They are pretty much equal anyway. [Edited 3/28/06 0:59am] Yo Diana...very interesting...Here's my take... Vocals Michael Jackson -Great vocalist; in his prime the man had the voice of angels...Just listen to "Rock With You," "Human Nature," even "Stranger In Moscow"..When the man is on, he's on... 10/10 Prince - Huge range; can go deep to falsetto; MJ still beats him here8/10 DANCING Michael Jackson - In his prime the man was possibly the best natural dancer on the planet; and while he hasn't switched up a move in ten years, he's still the superior one in this category10/10 Prince - Was always an add on for Prince; in his prime tha man could cut the rug; but it's even more impressive when you consider he could also whip your ass on guitar; still this is Mj's bag7/10 INSTRUMENTAL Michael Jackson - As many times as I heard the hardcore MJ contingent go on about MJ's musical prowess, i've yet to find proof of it...There's talk of a bootleg video of MJ playing piano, but that's just talk...MJ's musical gifts lies more in his extradinary sense melody5/10 Prince - Prince crushes MJ in this one...He plays nearly every instrument on nearly every record. Just pick your poison...Piano, drums, bass, guitar ect...on stage...The man is a gifted instrumentalist10/10 SONG-WRITING Michael Jackson - Well, it depends on which MJ you are talking about...If it's the MJ that wrote Billie Jean, Beat It or Don't Stop, then he would be highly regarded; But if it's the MJ who has had to rely on producers and songwriters than it's a tough sell...The truth is MJ can write a great song when he wants to ("Stranger In Moscow")... Unfortunately, for the past 20 years, it's been sporadic studio sessions with top-flight producers and little else...And the only song I remember hearing the man write for someone else was Muscles by Diana Ross (not including the The Jacksons which includes some great work, but not enough...)7/10 Prince - When your range is as startling as "When U Were Mine' to "Joy in Repetition" you are a sick ass songwriter..so sick in fact that you often write , record and release too many damn songs...but that's the mark of a true artist...Oh, and let's not forget that this is the same guys that wrote the Bangles "Manic Monday" and the Time's "Get It Up..." That's range like a motherfucker...Prince is certainly the more prolific in this department....10/10 STAGE Michael Jackson - In his prime, MJ was the greatest stage performer on the planet...In fact he kicked Prince's ass...I'm not going to add in the box office appeal of the man, because such a point is moot (Kiss can sale a tour, but that doesn't make them better than David Bowie...); The problem with MJ is that in the '90s his shows had become too redundant and too chereographed...To me the last 15 years hurt MJ...Plus he gets an L for lipsynching on the '90s tours9/10 Prince - Great performer who got better and better over the years....Plays all instruments onstage and can rock a crowd without MJ's special effects and dancers...A testament to his legacy: The man onstage can still get it done...However, if this was from 77 to 85, Prince would lose...10/10 SALES and CHARTS I won't even bring this to the table...Sales really don't matter in the big scheme of things...However, this is a stat that hardcore MJ fans like to bring up to prove the man's worth...The irony is MJ's talents speak for themseleves...Records are made to be broken...The Eagles (who i like) now have the greatest selling album of all time...Does that make them the greatest rock act of all time....No...Sales and charts are thrown out the conversation... MUSIC VIDEOS Michael Jackson - This is MJ's world...the man revolutionized videos...The midget can't see him in this regard... 10/10 Prince - hasn't made alot of great music videos (with the exception of a few)....ditto....5/10 FILM Not really important...we are talking about music artists, not actors; let's just say Prince has an Oscar and MJ does not...But who cares? INFLUENCE Michael Jackson - MJ's impression is there (Usher, Chris Brown ect...) But it's superficial at best...No one is actually influenced my MJ's sound; singing and dancing were done onstage before MJ (see James Brown)...He gets high marks but slightly lower than Diana's...His influence on "pop" artists cannot be denied; but I would rather see his "soul/R&B" influence...8/10 Prince - Now we are getting somewhere...you can hear it (Neptunes) and hear it (Van Hunt, Lenny Kravitz, D'Angelo, OutKast)...Then there's the fight for his masters; just ask his peers if they now see the handwriting on the wall...It's there for all to see...10/10 HOW THEY STAND TODAY Michael Jackson - The trials have hurt the man; his reliance on producers and songwriters do as well; he's a shell of his former self...a tragic tale of childhood celebrity...And yet he will still go down as one of the greats... 5/10 Prince -Has become a more respectable artist in his golden years; his legacy is intact; his musical skills are still sharp; he's still able to sell-out a tour; and he's about to release a new album which may debut at no. 1...A testamant to his rollercoaster career...The last of a dying breed...10/10 Michael Jackson - 64 Prince - 70 Prince wins because of his superior musical talent beyond vocalization and dancing...MJ is a rare talent...A gifted performer; however his lack of musical output (even Madonna released more albums than the man during his '80s prime...) hurts him...That said, we will never see the likes of these two icons.... [Edited 3/28/06 2:18am] | |
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 This is silly. Maybe we should compare Prince with Little Richard now... LR says P is LR... | |
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murph said: Michael Jackson - 64 Prince - 70 [Edited 3/28/06 2:18am] See, they are both very equal. Oh, and if I cut out film and sales (which you said aren't important, and I kinda agree, except for maybe sales because it shows what appeal they have) these are the totals I would come up with... TOTAL Michael Jackson - 68/80 Prince - 66/80 (still very close, and if I left film and only took out sales they'd be dead equal) | |
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VenusBlingBling said: This is silly. Maybe we should compare Prince with Little Richard now... LR says P is LR...Just having some fun...that's all.....  | |
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murph said: DarlingDiana said: VOCALS
Michael Jackson - pitch perfect, nice timbre, great falsetto, easy to listen to, known for vocal stylings such as "hee hee", "shamone" etc. 10/10 Prince - big range, great falsetto (one of his trademarks), nice timbre 8/10 DANCING Michael Jackson - undeniably the best contemporary dancer in the pop industry at the moment, has trademark moves (like the moonwalk, the crotch grab, the robot) 10/10 Prince - a good dancer, but doesn't have any moves that are recognisable as his7/10 INSTRUMENTAL Michael Jackson - credited as playing keyboard-type instruments, guitars and percussion (including kit) on various album, but is not known as an instrumentalist and has never performed any instrument (except vocals) on stage or even in a music video. 5/10 Prince - plays nearly every instrument on nearly every record, plays piano, guitar and drums on stage (and plays them well), is known as a great instrumentalist (expecially as a guitarist) 10/10 SONG-WRITING Michael Jackson - Inducted into the songwriter's hall of fame, has written some big hits (Don't Stop, Billie Jean, Beat It), writes a range of different styles (Billie Jean, Dirty Diana, Liberian Girl, Who Is It, Earth Song, Childhood), written great songs for other artists 8/10 Prince - Inducted into the songwriter's hall of fame, has written some big hits (1999, When Doves Cry, Nothing Compares 2 U), writes a range of different styles (Sexy Dancer, 1999, Darling Nikki, Venus Di Milo, Satisfied, Housequake), written alot great songs for other artists 10/10 (because he's had more output and less co-writers) STAGE Michael Jackson - world class stage performer, can sell-out concerts in any country in the world, only let down is he mimes about half the show for that he gives a point off (he would be 10/10 if he sung every song live) but he's amazing dancing and stage presence makes up for the lack of live vocals 9/10 Prince - world class performer, doesn't sell-out like MJ can, but with Prince it's always live so that makes up for not as good stage presence and dancing 9/10 SALES and CHARTS Michael Jackson - is one of the biggest selling albums of all-time, has the biggest selling album of all time, he sells millions and millions of each album he releases, his lowest selling studio album is BOTDF which sold 7 million (still a huge number so it goes to show how high his standard is), has had 13 billboard #1's 10/10 Prince - not a big seller, his biggest selling album is Purple Rain which sold 20 million (Off The Wall, Thriller, Bad and Dangerous all outsold this), these days he is selling less than 1 million with each album 6/10 MUSIC VIDEOS Michael Jackson - is world renowned for making great music videos, nearly every video he makes is dubbed video of the year by some awards organisation, and his TV premiers are always huge 10/10 Prince - hasn't made alot of great music videos (with the exception of a few) 5/10 FILM Michael Jackson - Has starred in The Wiz (in which he did a mildly good job) and also made the films Moonwalker and Ghosts, special-effects wise Moonwalker and Ghosts were brilliant, his acting in Moonwalker wasn't very good but his acting in Ghosts was very good, his storyline's aren't great, his films are mostly to showcase his songs and dancing 6/10 Prince - Purple Rain was brilliant (great music, great acting, good storyline), Under The Cherry Moon had great acting on Prince's part, Graffiti Bridge was shite in all aspects (music, acting, storyline) 8/10 INFLUENCE Michael Jackson - nearly every modern R&B and pop artist has been quoted as saying they were influenced by Michael Jackson, he has left a lasting impression on popular music 10/10 Prince - he has left a lasting impression on hip-hop and you can tell that most of the beats The Neptunes and the like create are derived from Prince and the Minneapolis sound (which he created) 10/10 HOW THEY STAND TODAY Michael Jackson - Has just been through a trial which crushed his public image, but kids still love his music (the Off The Wall, Thriller, Bad and Dangerous hits still get played in clubs and on radio), and it seems alot of current musicians and producers are still interested in working with him (Pharrel Williams, R Kelly, 50 Cent, Whoo Kid, Kanye West). Musically he still stands strong, but publically he is crushed 6/10 Prince - Prince has always been viewed as a weird person, but his music still stands strong, with his old hits being played on radio to this day (expecially in 1999 when 1999 was played constantly on radio), his new music doesn't sell or chart well and I doubt many kids know about 3121, but atleast he is still release music (unlike MJ, but he has a reason - the trial) 7/10 Neither artist stands well in today's music industry TOTAL Michael Jackson - 84/100 Prince - 80/100 Michael wins, but only by a little bit. They are pretty much equal anyway. [Edited 3/28/06 0:59am] Yo Diana...very interesting...Here's my take... Vocals Michael Jackson -Great vocalist; in his prime the man had the voice of angels...Just listen to "Rock With You," "Human Nature," even "Stranger In Moscow"..When the man is on, he's on... 10/10 Prince - Huge range; can go deep to falsetto; MJ still beats him here8/10 DANCING Michael Jackson - In his prime the man was possibly the best natural dancer on the planet; and while he hasn't switched up a move in ten years, he's still the superior one in this category10/10 Prince - Was always an add on for Prince; in his prime tha man could cut the rug; but it's even more impressive when you consider he could also whip your ass on guitar; still this is Mj's bag7/10 INSTRUMENTAL Michael Jackson - As many times as I heard the hardcore MJ contingent go on about MJ's musical prowess, i've yet to find proof of it...There's talk of a bootleg video of MJ playing piano, but that's just talk...MJ's musical gifts lies more in his extradinary sense melody5/10 Prince - Prince crushes MJ in this one...He plays nearly every instrument on nearly every record. Just pick your poison...Piano, drums, bass, guitar ect...on stage...The man is a gifted instrumentalist10/10 SONG-WRITING Michael Jackson - Well, it depends on which MJ you are talking about...If it's the MJ that wrote Billie Jean, Beat It or Don't Stop, then he would be highly regarded; But if it's the MJ who has had to rely on producers and songwriters than it's a tough sell...The truth is MJ can write a great song when he wants to ("Stranger In Moscow")... Unfortunately, for the past 20 years, it's been sporadic studio sessions with top-flight producers and little else...And the only song I remember hearing the man write for someone else was Muscles by Diana Ross (not including the The Jacksons which includes some great work, but not enough...)7/10 Prince - When your range is as startling as "When U Were Mine' to "Joy in Repetition" you are a sick ass songwriter..so sick in fact that you often write , record and release too many damn songs...but that's the mark of a true artist...Oh, and let's not forget that this is the same guys that wrote the Bangles "Manic Monday" and the Time's "Get It Up..." That's range like a motherfucker...Prince is certainly the more prolific in this department....10/10 STAGE Michael Jackson - In his prime, MJ was the greatest stage performer on the planet...In fact he kicked Prince's ass...I'm not going to add in the box office appeal of the man, because such a point is moot (Kiss can sale a tour, but that doesn't make them better than David Bowie...); The problem with MJ is that in the '90s his shows had become too redundant and too chereographed...To me the last 15 years hurt MJ...Plus he gets an L for lipsynching on the '90s tours9/10 Prince - Great performer who got better and better over the years....Plays all instruments onstage and can rock a crowd without MJ's special effects and dancers...A testament to his legacy: The man onstage can still get it done...However, if this was from 77 to 85, Prince would lose...10/10 SALES and CHARTS I won't even bring this to the table...Sales really don't matter in the big scheme of things...However, this is a stat that hardcore MJ fans like to bring up to prove the man's worth...The irony is MJ's talents speak for themseleves...Records are made to be broken...The Eagles (who i like) now have the greatest selling album of all time...Does that make them the greatest rock act of all time....No...Sales and charts are thrown out the conversation... MUSIC VIDEOS Michael Jackson - This is MJ's world...the man revolutionized videos...The midget can't see him in this regard... 10/10 Prince - hasn't made alot of great music videos (with the exception of a few)....ditto....5/10 FILM Not really important...we are talking about music artists, not actors; let's just say Prince has an Oscar and MJ does not...But who cares? INFLUENCE Michael Jackson - MJ's impression is there (Usher, Chris Brown ect...) But it's superficial at best...No one is actually influenced my MJ's sound; singing and dancing were done onstage before MJ (see James Brown)...He gets high marks but slightly lower than Diana's...His influence on "pop" artists cannot be denied; but I would rather see his "soul/R&B" influence...8/10 Prince - Now we are getting somewhere...you can hear it (Neptunes) and hear it (Van Hunt, Lenny Kravitz, D'Angelo, OutKast)...Then there's the fight for his masters; just ask his peers if they now see the handwriting on the wall...It's there for all to see...10/10 HOW THEY STAND TODAY Michael Jackson - The trials have hurt the man; his reliance on producers and songwriters do as well; he's a shell of his former self...a tragic tale of childhood celebrity...And yet he will still go down as one of the greats... 5/10 Prince -Has become a more respectable artist in his golden years; his legacy is intact; his musical skills are still sharp; he's still able to sell-out a tour; and he's about to release a new album which may debut at no. 1...A testamant to his rollercoaster career...The last of a dying breed...10/10 Michael Jackson - 64 Prince - 70 Prince wins because of his superior musical talent beyond vocalization and dancing...MJ is a rare talent...A gifted performer; however his lack of musical output (even Madonna released more albums than the man during his '80s prime...) hurts him...That said, we will never see the likes of these two icons.... [Edited 3/28/06 2:18am] The reason for the slow musical output is that MJ is a self-proclaimed perfectionist...he took he time to make everything perfect on his albums, and wutdoyaknow?, they outperformed everyone else. | |
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superfreak said: The reason for the slow musical output is that MJ is a self-proclaimed perfectionist...he took he time to make everything perfect on his albums, and wutdoyaknow?, they outperformed everyone else.
I agree, every album he's done so far has outdone everything else (I'm talking musically not sales wise) even Invincible. I also think the Jacksons albums and trous in the late 70s and early 80s, the solo tours from 1987-1988, 1992-1993 and 1995-1997 had something to do with his lack of output. I also think he just has a slow creative process and there is nothing wrong with that. I'd rather wait 4 years for a masterpiece than 4 months for a bunch of crap. | |
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DarlingDiana said: superfreak said: The reason for the slow musical output is that MJ is a self-proclaimed perfectionist...he took he time to make everything perfect on his albums, and wutdoyaknow?, they outperformed everyone else.
I agree, every album he's done so far has outdone everything else (I'm talking musically not sales wise) even Invincible. I also think the Jacksons albums and trous in the late 70s and early 80s, the solo tours from 1987-1988, 1992-1993 and 1995-1997 had something to do with his lack of output. I also think he just has a slow creative process and there is nothing wrong with that. I'd rather wait 4 years for a masterpiece than 4 months for a bunch of crap. As someone said, perfectionism or not, Prince produces just as many great songs as MJ in the same time period - just spread out over a couple of albums! Personally, I'd rather not wait 4 years or more for a decent album, I'd rather have a new album every year to digest even if not every track is to my taste. Anyway, DarlingDiana, I love the way you've broken this down, here's my honest opinion on your categories. For those of you who moan about yet another MJvP thread, well remember there are always new Orgers joining who have not enjoyed the benefits of a MJvP slanging match! VOCALS MJ - Always had a truly fantastic original voice since he was young. I remember reading a quote from Mick Hucknall back in the early 90s saying as he got older his voice was getting richer and deeper, a bit like James Brown's. 10/10 P - A great range, can sing an entire song in high, medium or low voice. I'm sure I read a quote once where P said, it's not that I think I've got the greatest voice, it's just I happen to like it. Not quite as unique as MJs or reknowned for his vocals, I'd say 8/10 DANCING MJ - A dancing legend. Stole a lot from James Brown, but is probably better known for his dance moves than anyone in history. 10/10 P - A good dancer, stole a lot from James Brown too. Not really known for his dancing abilities though, 6/10 INSTRUMENTAL MJ - may play keyboards and one or two other instruments, but it is not known to what level. Great beatbox though. 4/10 P - A genius not only on guitar, but also keyboards and bass, and good on drums, amongst other instruments. 10/10 SONG-WRITING MJ - Has written some truly classic songs. But also helped along by other song-writers. Not known for providing hits for others. 6/10 P - Also written some truly classic songs, plus provided massive hits for many others. Sheer quantity and range of writing staggering. 10/10 STAGE MJ - saw him on the Bad tour. Probably the biggest, most amazing show I'll ever see. However, he increasingly turned to lip-synching through the 90s. Not only that, but his shows utilise the same tricks and choreography time and again. He got in a rut putting on increasingly lavish shows and trying to replicate his videos onstage. I would love him to do some stripped down, intimate show focusing on his vocal talent and a new interpretation of his songs, but I can't see it ever happening. Bad tour would be 10/10 but - 2 for lip synching and repeating himself 8/10 P - every tour is different, set-lists are different between shows, plus the fantastic aftershows. Great showmanship, can do a big showbizzy production or a stripped down show to a few 100 people, great versatility. And you've got the huge amount of tours and concerts he's done. 10/10 SALES and CHARTS MJ - amazing success. Wins hands down 10/10 P - has had some great success and some commercial flops. Made many errors in promotion of some of his product, still, bigger over-all than many artist out there 6/10 MUSIC VIDEOS MJ - simply the most famous ground-breaking videos of all time. THE video artist. 10/10 P - one of the early pioneers of the mtv generation. Made some great videos but many weaker ones too. 5/10 FILM MJ - Good in The Wiz, but a flop film. Moonwalker dazzling but more a collection of videos. Ghosts good.but just another of MJs video fantasies. Not an actor of any merit. 4/10 P - Great in PR playing basically himself. A huge hit, but his other non-concert films have been a flop. An oscar for PRs soundtrack. For PR alone 6/10 INFLUENCE MJ - a big influence on music videos. Set a blueprint for success that other artists can only aspire to. Everybody that dances in pop has copied his moves and choreography. Musically, his influence is less obvious but still there. 9/10 P - A huge influence on music still being heard today across so many genres 10/10 HOW THEY STAND TODAY MJ - A great legacy that can never be taken away, but his reputation dented not only by all the accusations but by his crazy facial transfiguration and over-the-top lifestyle. Musically, he's nowhere the last original album being 5 years ago. Until he releases something new, I can only give him 4/10 P - His reputation as a performer and artist remain undiminished, even if he's not as popular as he once was. Still making great music 8/10 TOTAL MJ 75/100 P 79/100 Prince just edges it, in my opinion. | |
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metalorange said: TOTAL MJ 75/100 P 79/100 Prince just edges it, in my opinion. Exactly. He just edges it. MJ and P are just so damn equal. Some think that Prince has the edge, others think Michael Jackson has the edge. But whatever way you go, there's no denying that they are peers in the mudic idustry with only themselves as each others equals. No one in the music industry can equal them or rival them. Both MJ and Prince will go down in history and I think in 25+ years time, they will be viewed as bigger musical influences than the Bealtes. Because in 25+ years time it will become so apparent that every R&B, hip hop or pop song or music video from 1985 onwards is derived from something Prince or Michael Jackson did. | |
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oops... double post [Edited 3/28/06 6:07am] | |
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murph said:
SALES and CHARTS
I won't even bring this to the table...Sales really don't matter in the big scheme of things...However, this is a stat that hardcore MJ fans like to bring up to prove the man's worth...The irony is MJ's talents speak for themseleves...Records are made to be broken...The Eagles (who i like) now have the greatest selling album of all time...Does that make them the greatest rock act of all time....No...Sales and charts are thrown out the conversation... For the last time... make sure you check your facts. The Eagles have the biggest selling album in the United States and only by 2 million units shipped. I even would contest that because in 2 months time the album went from 27-29 million units shipped. Michael Jackson's Thriller on he other hand is the World's Biggest Selling Album with an estimated 60 million albums sold. That record will never again be broken... [Edited 3/28/06 6:17am] | |
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DarlingDiana said: metalorange said: TOTAL MJ 75/100 P 79/100 Prince just edges it, in my opinion. Exactly. He just edges it. MJ and P are just so damn equal. Some think that Prince has the edge, others think Michael Jackson has the edge. But whatever way you go, there's no denying that they are peers in the mudic idustry with only themselves as each others equals. No one in the music industry can equal them or rival them. Both MJ and Prince will go down in history and I think in 25+ years time, they will be viewed as bigger musical influences than the Bealtes. Because in 25+ years time it will become so apparent that every R&B, hip hop or pop song or music video from 1985 onwards is derived from something Prince or Michael Jackson did. I TOTALLY AGREE! THOSE ARE UNDENIABLE FACTS THAT NOONE HERE CAN DISPUTE... | |
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jlpugh said: DarlingDiana said: Exactly. He just edges it. MJ and P are just so damn equal. Some think that Prince has the edge, others think Michael Jackson has the edge. But whatever way you go, there's no denying that they are peers in the mudic idustry with only themselves as each others equals. No one in the music industry can equal them or rival them. Both MJ and Prince will go down in history and I think in 25+ years time, they will be viewed as bigger musical influences than the Bealtes. Because in 25+ years time it will become so apparent that every R&B, hip hop or pop song or music video from 1985 onwards is derived from something Prince or Michael Jackson did. I TOTALLY AGREE! THOSE ARE UNDENIABLE FACTS THAT NOONE HERE CAN DISPUTE... Um... those "facts" are anything but "undeniable". To suggest that Michael Jackson has had as much influence as Prince, or – even more farfetched – The Beatles, simply shows a lack of understanding of popular music. | |
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When it comes to who has the greater voice:
Both Whitney and Mariah are incredibly good singers. But even if Mariah's voice is a little better technically, I like Whitney's better 'cause I think the voice itself is nicer. Now, the same with MJ and Prince: Michael is a good singer but to me Prince's voice is much nicer to listen to (but I also think P can do much more with his voice than MJ.). | |
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NorthernLad said: jlpugh said: I TOTALLY AGREE! THOSE ARE UNDENIABLE FACTS THAT NOONE HERE CAN DISPUTE... Um... those "facts" are anything but "undeniable". To suggest that Michael Jackson has had as much influence as Prince, or – even more farfetched – The Beatles, simply shows a lack of understanding of popular music. At this point this thread has become useless with that one comment. I don't even think you are being or could be serious with such an absurd assertion. Most of if not all of pop music was pioneered and influenced in someways by Michael Jackson. Music videos would be literally non-existent if it were not for Michael Jackson's pioneering of that field itself. Pop music as we see we listen to it today is a product of the influence of albums such as Off the Wall, Thriller, and Bad. When Outkast accepted thier Album of The Year Grammy in 2004, they thanked Michael Jackson for giving them Thriller... Most of the biggest producers of today Pharell, Kanye West, and Rodney Jerkins have all attributed Michael Jackson's influence. I've heard few if anyone say that Prince has been such an influence. I'm not saying Prince is not an influence on pop music, but you have got to be kidding me if you are going to sit here and tell me and the rest of these people here that Prince is a much larger influence on pop music than Michael Jackson when 90% of his albums are literally unknown to the public! Dude... as we say in the ghetto... HO SITDOWN! | |
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I think that michael jackson is the easy choice 2 b a fan ov if yr into that kind ov music, some people then look deeper and find the genius that is prince. I LOVE PRINCE!!!!! | |
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jlpugh said: NorthernLad said: Um... those "facts" are anything but "undeniable". To suggest that Michael Jackson has had as much influence as Prince, or – even more farfetched – The Beatles, simply shows a lack of understanding of popular music. At this point this thread has become useless with that one comment. I don't even think you are being or could be serious with such an absurd assertion. Most of if not all of pop music was pioneered and influenced in someways by Michael Jackson. Music videos would be literally non-existent if it were not for Michael Jackson's pioneering of that field itself. Pop music as we see we listen to it today is a product of the influence of albums such as Off the Wall, Thriller, and Bad. When Outkast accepted thier Album of The Year Grammy in 2004, they thanked Michael Jackson for giving them Thriller... Most of the biggest producers of today Pharell, Kanye West, and Rodney Jerkins have all attributed Michael Jackson's influence. I've heard few if anyone say that Prince has been such an influence. I'm not saying Prince is not an influence on pop music, but you have got to be kidding me if you are going to sit here and tell me and the rest of these people here that Prince is a much larger influence on pop music than Michael Jackson when 90% of his albums are literally unknown to the public! Dude... as we say in the ghetto... HO SITDOWN! I don’t know how to break this to you, but your comment that “most if not all of pop music was influenced by Michael Jackson” is simply absurd and incorrect. FYI - - pop music existed LONG before Michael Jackson. Was Wacko-Jacko influential before his own insanity and inability to control himself brought his empire crumbling down around him? Yes. Was he influential in the “art” of music video? Sure. But by and large, MJ has been a follower of trends, not a leader. He has strayed very little from his original formula – usually very straightforward and glossy pop/R&B. There is nothing revolutionary about MJ’s music, except that some of it is very well-done. (“Thriller”, in particular). Prince, on the other hand, is a master of any genre, a trailblazer who has left a wave of imitators and admirers in his wake. The Beatles were like an atomic bomb landing square in the middle of the music industry - - they changed everyone and everything that came after them. Michael was a huge pop star. He had vast international appeal (and some still cling to him as if in denial that he is less than a shell of his former self.) Yeah, he has influenced some third-rate R&B wannabes, and even more substantial artists like Outkast. But – musically – his level of importance in the grand scheme of things is miniscule compared to titans like The Beatles, David Bowie, Prince, Bob Dylan, Rolling Stones and U2. To most, when you think of Michael Jackson, you think: "what could have been." Yeah, he was an electrifying persona at his "Thriller"-peak. But he was unable to build on that success, and let it dribble away both commercially and artistically. Listen to desperate wannabe-anthems like "Heal The World" and "Earth Song." MJ is too worried about maintaining his mythical "stature" than with making good music. He blamed everyone but himself when "Invicible" sold poorly - when, it fact, it's not hard to see WHY the album flopped: it sucked. It was hideous, glossy, soulless pop that conformed to the trends of the day. MJ lost the plot ages ago. 1 classic album ("Thriller"), and a handful of great singles, and huge massive commercial popularity at his peak, do not equate to the kind of extraordinary brilliance that Prince has shown for almost all of his long and legendary career. [Edited 3/28/06 8:20am] | |
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Most of the biggest producers of today Pharell, Kanye West, and Rodney Jerkins have all attributed Michael Jackson's influence. I've heard few if anyone say that Prince has been such an influence. I'm not saying Prince is not an influence on pop music, but you have got to be kidding me if you are going to sit here and tell me and the rest of these people here that Prince is a much larger influence on pop music than Michael Jackson when 90% of his albums are literally unknown to the public!
Dude... as we say in the ghetto... HO SITDOWN![/quote] man.....I'm going to say this in a polite way. You don't know what the hell you are talking about. I've spoken to 100's of PROFESSIONAL musicians over the years. Prince is easily one of the most respected and influencial artist of the last 30 years. According to these professionals, no one else is even in Prince's class. MJ's major impact is /was on the vision and performance side, NOT the music. Let's get real, Pharell, Andre 3000, and some other cats would not have a career if they were not jacking Prince. | |
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I guess like many people, i do respect MJ for his older accomplishments, and i do really like his '80's music. There some undeniable classics there, which i do actually listen to occasionally.
I even bought Invincible back in 2001, hoping that MJ somehow managed to create some interesting music. As i'm typing this, i'm listening to 'whatever happens', which is the one song i like best so far on the CD. As for the rest.. it's so formulaic, so plasticy and desperately trying to sound 'current', it just ain't funny. If it wasn't for michael, i would have avoided that CD like the plague, no kiddin.. I'm no fan of the current 'R&B' scene at all.. it's all waaayy to smoothy slicky, way to formulaic and lacks any kind of invention whatsoever. I wish Michael would develop some ideas of his own about his sound, instead of grasping for the nearest hippest trend and paying some hip producer to copy this sound in order to please the dumbed-down kids who have been brainwashed to actually buy this crap.. ahem... end of rant  | |
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So, have we come to a decision yet?
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MJ? Better song writer than Prince? Keep dreaming.
Michael Jackson is a freakshow, Prince is a musician. How can you compare them? And I prefer Prince over MJ any day. | |
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Why are people ranking things? 10/10, 5/10. 2/10? Who cares? Your rating system is subjective and doesn't mean anything--just give us your opinion without the scoring/ranking. It's not like you have a scoring system that actuall earns Prince or MJ points. "New Power slide...." |
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Graycap23 said: Most of the biggest producers of today Pharell, Kanye West, and Rodney Jerkins have all attributed Michael Jackson's influence. I've heard few if anyone say that Prince has been such an influence. I'm not saying Prince is not an influence on pop music, but you have got to be kidding me if you are going to sit here and tell me and the rest of these people here that Prince is a much larger influence on pop music than Michael Jackson when 90% of his albums are literally unknown to the public!
Dude... as we say in the ghetto... HO SITDOWN! man.....I'm going to say this in a polite way. You don't know what the hell you are talking about. I've spoken to 100's of PROFESSIONAL musicians over the years. Prince is easily one of the most respected and influencial artist of the last 30 years. According to these professionals, no one else is even in Prince's class. MJ's major impact is /was on the vision and performance side, NOT the music. Let's get real, Pharell, Andre 3000, and some other cats would not have a career if they were not jacking Prince.[/quote] It doesnt matter what music professionals say... it matters what the American public says and what the buying public has said... and the buying public has overwhelmingly chosen Michael Jackson by far. I've asked many people just like you and I, who is the best artist... most of them without hestitation will say Michael Jackson, mainly in part because they know more of his music. Prince of course is still an influence but on the entire genre Michael Jackson reigns without a rival. Again, 80-90% of Prince's albums arent even known to the buying public, other than major Prince fans. Michael Jackson has been a listed influence to every major pop artist of the last 15 years. Usher, Justin Timberlake, Britney Spears, Chris Brown, Omarion, R. Kelly, Pharell, Kanye West, Outkast, ect... they have all in music and performance listed Michael Jackson as a major influence to thier career. I will not dismiss Prince as most of you do with Michael Jackson. I am not saying he is not much of an influence however, Michael Jackson's music permeates pop culture and most of all of what we listen to on the radio is a hell of alot more Michael Jacksonish that Princish! PROVE ME WRONG!!!!! | |
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jlpugh said: It doesnt matter what music professionals say... [then ] ...Michael Jackson has been a listed influence to every major pop artist of the last 15 years. Usher, Justin Timberlake, Britney Spears, Chris Brown, Omarion, R. Kelly, Pharell, Kanye West, Outkast, ect... they have all in music and performance listed Michael Jackson as a major influence to thier career. I will not dismiss Prince as most of you do with Michael Jackson. I am not saying he is not much of an influence however, Michael Jackson's music permeates pop culture and most of all of what we listen to on the radio is a hell of alot more Michael Jacksonish that Princish! PROVE ME WRONG!!!!! psst, your argument doesn't make sense, change it before anyone notices....  | |
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jlpugh said: When Outkast accepted thier Album of The Year Grammy in 2004, they thanked Michael Jackson for giving them Thriller... Outkast also introduced Prince to the Rock n' Roll Hall Of Fame. All that goes to prove is that Prince AND MJ have been influential on Outkast, and no doubt a lot of other artists, almost equally. jlpugh said: I'm not saying Prince is not an influence on pop music, but you have got to be kidding me if you are going to sit here and tell me and the rest of these people here that Prince is a much larger influence on pop music than Michael Jackson when 90% of his albums are literally unknown to the public!
A large part of the reason why MJ's albums are better known is because of the huge promotion to sell them and MJ milking the albums for all they are worth by releasing single after single from them. Whereas Prince quickly moves onto the next project, I think that shows how creative he is in comparison with MJ. NorthernLad said: I don’t know how to break this to you, but your comment that “most if not all of pop music was influenced by Michael Jackson” is simply absurd and incorrect. FYI - - pop music existed LONG before Michael Jackson. Was Wacko-Jacko influential before his own insanity and inability to control himself brought his empire crumbling down around him? Yes. Was he influential in the “art” of music video? Sure. But by and large, MJ has been a follower of trends, not a leader. He has strayed very little from his original formula – usually very straightforward and glossy pop/R&B. There is nothing revolutionary about MJ’s music, except that some of it is very well-done. (“Thriller”, in particular).
I agree with those points. NorthernLad said: Yeah, he was an electrifying persona at his "Thriller"-peak. But he was unable to build on that success, and let it dribble away both commercially and artistically.
You could argue the same for Prince after Purple Rain! A huge selling album is always difficult to live upto. NorthernLad said: Listen to desperate wannabe-anthems like "Heal The World" and "Earth Song." MJ is too worried about maintaining his mythical "stature" than with making good music. He blamed everyone but himself when "Invicible" sold poorly - when, it fact, it's not hard to see WHY the album flopped: it sucked. It was hideous, glossy, soulless pop that conformed to the trends of the day.
Earth Song was a fantastic song! It's not by accident it was number one in the UK for like 13 weeks or something. And as has been stated previously, by MJ's record breaking standards, Invincible flopped, but it still sold around 10 million world-wide - figures most artists including Prince can only dream about. NorthernLad said: MJ lost the plot ages ago. 1 classic album ("Thriller"), and a handful of great singles, and huge massive commercial popularity at his peak, do not equate to the kind of extraordinary brilliance that Prince has shown for almost all of his long and legendary career.
Thriller is a classic, but almost every critic rates Off The Wall even higher! I think Bad is a great colourful album, it actually sold more than Thriller in the UK. But besides that, there's MJ's amazing and legendary career with the Jacksons that always seems to get forgotten about, like it was some other person doing all that. One theory I have is that MJ's music appeals far more to a young audience - simple, fun records you can bop to. Whereas Prince's appeals to a more adult audience. You only have to look at all the parental advisory stickers on Prince's albums to figure that out. When I was younger, I loved both Prince and MJs music, it wasn't a case of one or the other, but I definately have moved towards Prince's more intricate challenging music as I've grown older. I have a feeling a lot of the people defending MJ on here are on the younger side, which largely explains why they think MJ invented pop music and why they've barely heard of the Beatles. | |
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metalorange said: You could argue the same for Prince after Purple Rain! A huge selling album is always difficult to live up to.
The difference I think is that "Purple Rain" was just one side of Prince's persona, whereas "Thriller" was the culmination of everything MJ stood for. "Purple Rain" just happened to be very successful, but Prince immediately went off into a different direction and explored different things. MJ has spent the last 20 years trying to recreate the success of "Thriller" with often disasterous results. MJ still pulls down impressive numbers, no doubt. But commercially (by his 80's standards) and certainly artistically, "Invincible" and "History" were both massive failures. I agree with you on "Bad" - it's a fun album with some good moments, and I think about 1/3 of "Dangerous" is decent. But he has done nothing to even approach "Thriller" and "Off the Wall" in the past 23 years. Prince, on the other hand, has consistently redefined himself, taken chances, taken risks, and has kept us excited and looking forward to the next move. Not all of his experiments have been successful, but he isn't trying to re-create "Purple Rain" the way MJ has desperately been clinging onto the hope of another massive album in the vein of "Thriller." To Prince it's all about the music; to MJ, it's all about MJ selling records and being an Uber-Star. I think you have an excellent point about many MJ fans being younger than the typical Prince fan - that is probably true, because there is a definite lack of perspective about rock/pop music history in some of these posts. I would disagree with you on "Earth Song", by the way. To me it's a lame attempt to recreate a much stronger track: "Man in the Mirror." MJ has tried to re-record that song numerous times over the years. | |
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jlpugh said: murph said:
SALES and CHARTS
I won't even bring this to the table...Sales really don't matter in the big scheme of things...However, this is a stat that hardcore MJ fans like to bring up to prove the man's worth...The irony is MJ's talents speak for themseleves...Records are made to be broken...The Eagles (who i like) now have the greatest selling album of all time...Does that make them the greatest rock act of all time....No...Sales and charts are thrown out the conversation... For the last time... make sure you check your facts. The Eagles have the biggest selling album in the United States and only by 2 million units shipped. I even would contest that because in 2 months time the album went from 27-29 million units shipped. Michael Jackson's Thriller on he other hand is the World's Biggest Selling Album with an estimated 60 million albums sold. That record will never again be broken... [Edited 3/28/06 6:17am] You are correct...but my points was that records are meaningless...that's all.... | |
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someone said: Usher, Justin Timberlake, Britney Spears, Chris Brown, Omarion, R. Kelly, Pharell, Kanye West, Outkast, ect... they have all in music and performance listed Michael Jackson as a major influence to thier career.
Jesus Christ!!!.. If he's responsible for that whole bag of junk, he should be executed immediately! | |
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thedoveoflove said: I've always considered Michael Jackson to be a true genius.
I've also since 1996 liked Prince. i would say now hes my second favorite artist. To be honest I consider Prince to be a poor mans Michael Jackson, but he puts out albums on a regular basis and i find most of them enjoyable, but never to the level of MJ's. Prince helps fill the time between Michael's albums. I would say Michael is a far better singer, Dancer and songwriter. I also Think his live shows are the best ever. As far as musicainship goes prince can play more but I think Michael is maybe better on piano. Prince is good but he at his best for me when doing pop type music and whenhe does I always hear Michaels influence in that music. For me Michael is a 10/10 Prince a 8/10 This is the funniest thread i have read in a long time | |
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NorthernLad said: I would disagree with you on "Earth Song", by the way. To me it's a lame attempt to recreate a much stronger track: "Man in the Mirror." MJ has tried to re-record that song numerous times over the years.
Did MJ write Man in the Mirror? I thought someone else wrote it for him. And I agree - Earth Song is lame. | |
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There r many similarities with both actually
The both had massive albums thriller and purple rain and over time thier careers went down!! Thats when prince started fueding with his record company Same happened with MJ and he started callin his record company racist!! one has to realise they cant sell u the teens it wont happen 2 generations will never listen to the same music its just the facts of life!! Prince has moved on after realising this fact and seems to be happy agian and is focusing once agian on the music!! he knows if he tours regualrly to large audience he will build his fan base and be as big as the 80s MJ is still stuck in the past at the moment!! I dont think he will have another album for atleast 3-4yrs MJ fans cant really wait for 10yr for new music so they r moving to prince!! | |
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