I heard the song by Eminem and Aerosmith called "Sing for the Moment" on the radio. I must admit that I like the Aerosmith part better than the Eminem part. I think this means I'm old

Anyway, I like the music, but I'm not too crazy about the lyrics. How many times is Eminem going to write about being a rapper and the trappings of fame and having fans?

Okay, so he's a white rapper waiting for his check to arrive in the mail, getting paid for rapping and little kids buy magazines with his pictures and paste the pictures to their bedroom walls. Why is he telling us this in his lyrics?

Eminem's subjects in his songs just don't appeal to me. He definitely has skills as a writer, but what he chooses to write about seems silly and self absorbed.

It reminds me of a comedy skit I saw on "In Living Color" where they had a singer/guitarist who would eat a ham sandwich and then write a song about eating a ham sandwich. Then the singer glanced out the kitchen window, and wrote a song about glancing out the kitchen window. Then the singer saw someone walk past on the sidewalk, and wrote a song about someone passing by on the sidewalk.

What is Eminem going to do next? Blow his nose and then rap about blowing his nose?

NikkiDarling said:

Aerosmith are an embarrassment these days. I used to be a huge fan. Theyve not made a decent album since Pump, they release lord knows how many GH compilations. They've sold out so many times i've lost count. Oh and they now duet with Eminem, not to mention their live gig with Christina A.
Retire now guys!

I am pleased to have the first post on this thread...

I have found that no talent hacks are the first to drop critisism on Eminem... let me begin by saying Eminem is genius... not talented... genius... a man who can stir up so much human emotion with just words... if he was Burrows or Kerouac he would be a legend... but because his artistic outlet comes from rapping (a medium that until recently has gotten no validity as being craft) people tend to lump him in catagories belonging to pop icons and Thugs (excuse the Indian expression)

He speaks in tribal beats as naturally as John Blackwell plays drums... and equally as accurate. His iamicpentameter (sorry about the spelling) from 'I Am What You Say I Am' could be stright out of any number of Shakespeares 38 plays. I don't belive that Eminem read a lot of Shakespeare in high school, so one could hazard a guess, based on form and command over his contempary laguage, that the two of them are thinking, in part, from the same brain.

I am not saying that Eminem is a modern Shakespeare... ok, I am... sorry, he is just so good!

But whether or not you agree, keep in mind that the same people who are dissing Eminem as being just out for 'shock value' are the same people who won't listen to Prince because he dresses like a fag.

As far a the tiresome ramblings of Eminem writing the same self-indulgent dribble... I would only HOPE that people who post on this page would understand the pressures of being THE HIGHEST SELLING RAPPER OF ALL TIME IN THE WORLD...Like Purple Rain days... varity in topic is not recomended... seeing Prince didn't write about shit other than Sex, God, and Partying until he had his own label... so stay tuned that Wigger has much more to say...

I hope I have convinced some older fans to give him another listen with an open mind... for best results read along...then just try to talk that fast... but don't forget to talk fast AND passionatly.

I agree with a lot of blackwell's post...lol..good post.

Nikki, I thought the same thing too, about some of his lyrics "Slim Shady", "Without Me", "I Am What You Say I Am", etc.. Personally, I think he does it not only stir people up, but I also think that he writes about himself being back, the best, etc..almost as joke of sorts. "Look here, I'm talking about ME again". He is good at what he does and I do like how he writes about what's taking place in his life at the moment.

As far as Aerosmith...one of my favorite bands out there... I stopped listening since the release of "Permanent Vacation". They just kind of lost me on that one. They used to put on one helluva concert!

WildheartXXX said:

I though Aerosmith fans were going to blow a gasket over their duet with Britney Spears at the Superbowl halftime show. Now they're performing a live gig with Christina Aguilara? I wonder how Prince fans would react if Prince suddenly started doing duets with the Britney, Christina, N'Sync crowd?

blackwell said:

Not trying to start anything "racial," but the reason rap is only now gaining recognition and respect in the mainstream is because whites are moving into the genre. Black artists have been rapping for 20 years.

Even Eminem himself will tell you that he is just like Elvis Presley, a white man who came along and got riches and fame by doing black man's music.

Batdance said:

Batdance, I will support your point if you could show me on a consistant basis a brotha who is better than Eminem

Batdance said:

not to mention that while Aerosmith has gotten a chance to Sell-Out&out out more Crap Material since 88 RUN DMC the Guys that Brought Aerosmith out of Betty Ford in so many words speaking can't even get to play at a MTV Video Awards Show in the Parking lot.

blackwell said:

Eminemis just doing a Watered-down take on what 2Pac did 8 years back.Pac would Clown other Artists&hang with Showbiz types&His Producer's etc... the difference between Pac&Em was besides Race was that Pac was Deeper as a Thinker on the Lyrical Front.but overall all Eminem is doing to Me is a Poor Man's 2Pac.Same type of Controversy&Hype but it never sells the same for a Black Artist doing it.Pac was Prolific,in Films,Magazines&a Whole Generation of Ears saw Him as something special almost in a Malcolm X sort of a way dare I say it but there is some truth IMHO to that Presentation He gave off.

blackwell said:

Um, so Eminem is better than Chuck D? Big Daddy Kane? LL Cool J? Tupac? Tupac was the most influential rapper of the 90s.

Batdance... I respect what your saying, but I am going to fight you on the tupac thing... I agree Tupac was a deeper thinker, but with lyrical flow, lyrics, hooks, and the entire concept album the Eminem Show, I am going to say you have to dig deeper than Chuck D and Dre... oh, by the way, like Prince, and like Kid Rock, he produces all his own songs and tracks... I happen to know the bass player for Dre, and Dre DON'T write his own songs... so if you give the props to Prince give Eminem the same props...

he was able to take a genre which was unaccessable to White artists and not only compete, but to make is better and, I am sorry to all the brothas... raise the bar...

However I don't belive in Black and White, I belive in different cultures... and Eminem didn't find acceptance with the 'white' culture, thus a differn't means of expression.. he is just talented.. if he choise the guitar he would be a brilliant guitar player,, but spoken word was his outlet...

this discussion is interesting.. keep it going.

blackwell said:

I didn't mention Dre because I am aware that he does not write his own lyrics.

However, I will never agree with your position that Eminem has taken a black art form and "made it better" and "raised the bar." You are dismissive of the pioneers and innovators who created this art form.

That is like saying Elvis took R&B and made it "better" because he made a black art form accessible and acceptable to whites.

I am not an expert on hip hop or rap, but if you take your position that Eminem has made rap "better" to a hip hop or rap newsgroup, I'm sure the experts of the genre would be more than happy to explain to you in a dozen ways just how wrong you are.

Batdance said:

Eminem hasn't taken Rap anywhere except more Commerical&Cross-Over.when He break down Barriers like Run Dmc,mixes His Music&Lyrics like Public Enemy or Create a Vibe like the Beastie Boys did then He will get some Props.I'd take MC Search from 3rd base over Eminem Easily on flow.has Eminem showed Lyrical Flow like Rakim? No.has He Created Slow Jams&done a Wicked Unplug like LL.Cool J? No.does He have the depth of Words like a Kool Mo Dee?? No.does He write&Capture a Area of Storytelling like Ice Cube did?No.does He have a Distinctive Voice like a Snoop Dogg that was Sold no matter what came out of it just on the Voice Alone?No.He isn't as Gifted as a Lyricist as Nas.doesn't have a Deep Personal Vibe with His Work like a Common.He is too Limited in Overall Content Matter IMHO.if 2Pac were Alive versus Eminem it wouldn't even be close because though Pac to me wasn't that Great a Rapper on a whole Pac knew how to Be Poetic&Knew how to answer a Challenge.Eminem is to Correct in so many ways to Seperate Himself from his Peers IMHO.when a Rapper was truly on His Game you knew it because He came at your Ass.Eminem is kinda a Freddy Cat at rolling the Dice of where He is.

Well, I already acknowledged Eminem's talents as a writer, but it's his subject matter that I don't find appealing. There's no way that I am going to say he's a "genius." I think he's been lucky and came along at the right time. Vanilla Ice was a white rapper who came along too soon, but Eminem's timing was perfect.

It's almost like Mayte, who came along too soon to capitalize on the Latin explosion craze. Mayte could have been as big a star as Jennifer Lopez, but the timing just wasn't right for her.

NikkiDarling said:

Eminem came at the right time.as for the Latin Explosion: Shelia E.&Lisa.Lisa&Gloria Estifan came too soon on it.if they each came out within the past 6 Years they would have Been Even Bigger especially Lisa,Lisa&Shelia E.IMHO.

Batdance said:

LOL chuck D? big daddy kane?(ill leave LL and pac out of this) them ol' crusty ass fools they may have made big contributions to hip hop but it doesnt mean everyone has to like them.

eminem is great(not saying hes like the best ever)...hes in the same boat as jay-z i say.

mistermaxxx said:

Remember Menudo? They were a pretty big all boys group like N' Sync, were they not???. But do you think that Jennifer Lopez's success has to do with the fact that her music doesn't have any Latin flavor in it? Lisa Lisa was known, but she had a lot of songs that were like house music, and that had some latin rhythm to it that probably limited her success at the time. But then again, Gloria Estafan and Sheila E. had a mixture of flavors, but overall, I still think that J.Lo's success has a whole lot to do with how she looks and the help she got in playing the game right, since she was already becoming a movie star.

BTW, My favorite rapper is L.L cool J, and Busta Rhymes. I dislike Eminem's voice too much to even care for the lyrics he writes. They make it seem like he's the best rapper, when so many other rap artists with similar or even better skills came before him. So to me, he's sort of a big joke.
[This message was edited Tue Jul 16 13:37:31 PDT 2002 by Starmist7]

Starmist7 said:

Yes I Remember Menudo&there 16 Year old Rule&you were out from them.they were marginal here in the states.not even as Big as New Edition here.but on other parts of the World they were Big.they had some States Love but nothing here on the lines of N-Sync.J-Lo got over simply by Jacking Salena's Whole Career.It didn't take a Genius to figure out Hey She is playing Her Life on Screen lets turn Her into a Actress&a Singer??not to Mention J-Lo has Over the Years gotten her Look&Vibe to Appeal to a More Main-Stream Audience.Lisa,Lisa,Shelia E,Gloria Estifan all have had Pop Success to a Various Degrees.I think Lisa,Lisa of the Three should have gotten more out of it for Various Reasons.Her Material with Full Force at the time Pre-Dated what Janet Jackson was just starting to do.Her Look was Strong&She was a babe.if given the Right Chances She could have been Big on the Big-Screen&done TV as well.She was Very Honesty as well about the Business.She was Quoted as once saying the People you think got alot of Money don't have much of anything.She was always talking of how hard it was to Becoming Rich in the Business.She said just because Somebody is Famous in the Business doesn't mean they are Rich.

mistermaxxx said:

Excellent observation. I agree with you. In a way, it seems like J.Lo stepped into Selena's career. Jennifer Lopez had made a few films before she played Selena, but it was her portrayal of Selena that made her a star. Selena had tremendous success and was just on the verge of breaking big in the U.S. market when she was killed.

I was just thinking about this, and isn't that the way people get over some times? By stepping on another's toes, and doing some grimy stuff to make it to the top??? Not all people, but I mean some. And who's to say that Selena would've made it as a big as J.Lo? I’m just saying who really knows? In my opinion, I would buy a Selena CD over J.Lo’s simply because I know she’s a better singer and had better songs. But the music industry likes to cover-up all those things to try to influence us to be taken by other things other than the singing voice and the quality of the music. I go with that they pick and choose who they want to 'blow-up', which I think is the case here also.

Starmist7 said:

You got that right. The road to success is littered with broken hearts of people who didn't make it or who got stepped on or pushed aside by somebody on their way up.

Success in show business doesn't come from being the best looking or the most talented, it comes from being at the right place at the right time and having luck on your side.

NikkiDarling said:

thank You Very Much.Selena was working with Full Force(10 Years Earlier they were working with Lisa,Lisa sense a Pattern?)and She was going for a More Pop Cross-Over Vibe.She was doing Donna Summer Covers among other things in Concert&She was about to fully get that Cross-Over Dollar.I think She would have been Huge.J-Lo though Jacked Selena got with Puffy at the Right time&Combined the Pop Latin Explosion which is Sad to say because the Richness&Beauty of the Culture has always been here&Help Create this Country, but folks sleep on things.anyway Combined Her Cross-Over Appeal with Puffy&Rap&you have a Million Dollar Pairing.now J-Lo like My Granny always use to Say runs from Pillow to Post but She rode another Career into the Gates.She may Be the Latina Elvis?? started out as a Fly Girl on "In Living Color" Messed with Puffy&got a Record COntract&Her Film Career blew up.was on the Ropes&then got a Hook up&Hit with Ja rule&Now Nas.Endless stream.Oh I forgot Janet Jackson's "that's the way Love Goes" J-Lo was in that.She has had the right Broom stick to Ride the Magic Carpet ride.

GoldNigga said:

Not to say that J.Lo set out to get the role so that she would get fame, but sometimes it's done intentionally and unintentionally without the 'artist' bewaring aware of what's going on as they go along with it. It's the one who's in control that's behind all the dirty work most of the time. The ones we can't see. Like I stated before, they're the ones who pick and choose, which is why I think the artist has very, very little power in the game, unless they're very persistent, persuasive, and as manipulative as those who are in control. So in that aspect, I think it can both ways , depending on the person, and those who say so.
[This message was edited Tue Jul 16 22:20:53 PDT 2002 by Starmist7]