I'll go first....

Since I have a passion for playing or listening to synths & drum machines sounds (not to mention that I like to hear electronic dance more often than Hip-Hop, due to fact that I'm getting older & wiser), I personally think that the answer is very true....

Hell to the yeah, the brits & the europeans are kicking our american butts musically at the moment.

...and BTW, we're taking about outside of the USA borders. Just ask Madonna!

The music scene in the States is pretty humdrum these days. Theres nothing exciting.

dreamfactory313 said:

And THAT'S exactly why this thread is so necessary. There's nothing new or cutting-edge coming from USA at the moment.

All of this music technology available to us (Pro-Tools, Reason, FL Studio, Roland synths, Korg synths, Yamaha synths, etc.), and we (americans) can't seem to make anything interesting!

....and BTW, American Hip-Hop/R&B has been using the tempo of 95 BPM too much now!!

True

Of course that is true. Only an American would think it's not.

TonyVanDam said:

Gawd you can keep that Euro/Brit crap!!


I'll willingly acknowledge there's a more receptiveaudience for AMERICAN music over in Europe, but if the innovation in your mind is synthi-drums and keys YUCK! . That crap is more annoying than rap.

BTW there is a trend in jazz that is based on a European avant-garde sensibility; sometimes with electronica and sometimes not. Some of it is cool.

I certainly think that overall the Americans have dropped the ball with jazz. There seem to be very few truly interesting or innovative jazz or jazz-influenced artists with record deals in America in recent years.

A lot of the most interesting jazz-influenced music of today is coming out of Scandinavia (of all places), with the '90s fusion of modern dance and ambient sounds with jazz instruments and improvisation. Acts such as the Esbjorn Svenson Trio, Nils Petter Molvaer and the great Jan Garbarek all have important and interesting things to say in their uniquely Scandinavian music. Molvaer takes his cue from mid-70s Miles Davis and is a particular favourate of mine. I might even put Bjork in the same wider field of Scandinavian innovators.

It must have all come out of Abba and Aha.

As for the British (which I am), the pop chart scene imo has been pretty pathetic since the early '90s, but there is some decent stuff on the fringes. I just cringe at a lot of the stuff produced in Britain in recent years being so popular when the country produced the Beatles, David Bowie, Brian Eno, Kate Bush, Zeppelin, even Queen were often great.

To slide slightly off-topic, there's also some great stuff coming out of West Africa in recent years, eg Tinawiren, Yousef N'Dour's 'Egypt' album, Fela Kuti drummer Tony Allen's albums and Touman Diabate and the late great Ali Farka Toure.

There is far far more to music than that made in America (however good that may once have been and hopefully will be again).

You're right on this one! Hell, the aborigines in Australia are making better music than America right now

Miles said:

Totally. I wholeheartedly agree, though I have to chuckle at our jingoistic flag-waving stances. It's good for jazz to get some other kind of influences into it. If you've been into the Northeastern loft scene you'd know it's already come back to America.





I've noted that you didn't list any Brit r&b. Thank gawd! I happen to think it's too derivative and I'm not too fond of Beatles' r&b covers nor Stones blues covers (tough the Beatles originals are timeless).




Once again, I wholeheartedly agree. The former colonies are creating much more interesting music.

Miles said:

Pffft. Mats Gustafsson or Dror Feiler from Sweden could outplay those folks anyday.

PFunkjazz said:

Fair enough. But what about using THIS SAME music technology to make funk (Think: Roger/Zapp) or re-invent house (Think: Daft Punk)?

TonyVanDam said:

I don't know Daft Punk, so you have me at-odds. Mmight a better example be Kaftwerk? Yeah they were definitely inovative


For all intents & purposes, Roger/Zapp is really a PFunk off-shoot. I've always consider them derivative and desperately in need of an editor, but till accepted them in the due to a dearth of PFunk jams.

TonyVanDam said:

I hope so. That being said, the good music is there, but you won't hear it on the radio and you have to really search for it.

If it wasn't for us, Europeans, there would have never been an America! DEAL WITH IT!

MikeMatronik said:

OH shut the fuck up you stupid bitch!

Right now, Iwould have to say...

FALSE!!!

Neither the Americans nor the Europeans are making better music. While there are some Americans who are stepping up their game (The Strokes, Kanye West, Death Cab For Cutie, The Shins, Yeah Yeah Yeahs) and some European bands who are likewise showing mad skillz (Franz Ferdinand, the Arctic Monkeys), I would have to say that the Canadians are passing them both up. You can debate the merits of Avril Lavigne, Shania Twain and Sum 41, but they have also given us the Arcade Fire and have some of the most groundbreaking rock music out today.

yea, thank god for Girls Aloud.

I think Europe are bringing out some decent old school music once again.
Not all this prepackaged pop shite.Although all the reality tv music is a joke.
Bands like The Zutons,Franz Ferdinand,Artic Monkeys,Keane, bands that can play instruments and write their own original material.
The charts are still a load of crap though.
Im not too sure what i think of this RNB explosion thats happening just now.Some of its alright.
But it seems to be the majority of music thats coming out of the states just now.

Here's my 10 euros worth -

I don't like to post negatively, but I just don't get all this fuss over the recent British bands like Franz Ferdinand, Arctic Monkeys, Zutons etc. I mean, what new things are they saying, musically or lyrically? I know there's only so many 'commercial' pop/rock ideas but for me, the British mainstream band scene has been pretty much artistically bankrupt since the early '90s.

Why do these bands all sound like rip offs of bands from the '60s, '70 and '80s, but with added modern production and fake angst? They all like the music their dads and grandads liked and played. That ain't rebellious and sure ain't rock n'roll. You could just play the original artists they copy and enjoy real music. They seem to add little or nothing of their own to the sounds. And most of them seem to take themselves far too seriously (I call this the 'Pink Floyd effect' . Tho I do like and respect most of Floyd's music).

There's a few slightly more interesting bands out there - Super Furry Animals, Radiohead (tho R'head are too depressing imo), but it's all fairly sad really that people go mad over such weak stuff.

It just seems that the world the Beatles, Dylan and Hendrix created in the '60s is incapable of being equaled or intelligently built on by later generations. But with money being so central, I guess that's business for you. A few current bands are mildly exhilerating, but very very few seem to have long-term musical development. Maybe that's the problem. The old acts may be indeed over-rated but the weight of their perceived 'importance' crushes any new bold creativity cos they know it won't make money.

I do believe that in Britain right now, there are music artists known and completely obscure who are as good as the Beatles, Bowie, Kate Bush, etc,who will probably never get recognised due to the pathetically limited scope of record companies and, to be honest, the pathetic level of knowledge of less 'commercial' music forms in the general public. For instance, most people I know don't know what funk music is. And yet it's so funny that Prince destroyed them all at this year's Brit Awards.

I like the odd bit of Kaiser Chiefs tho

...


The problem is you still have to for the good music, no matter which side of the pond you're on...But there has been a great deal of good Jazz, Pop and Funk coming from across the waters (Lewis Taylor from the UK, is one of my HEROES right now--but on the other hand, so are US artists like Meshell N'degeocello and Soulive, and ironically, both are arguably more popular in Japan and Europe than here in the US...)...but I'd say there's a hell lot of creativity out there, no matter where it originates--the problem, like Graycap said, is that you have to SEARCH for it...you're not going to hear it on mainstream radio, on either side...



...

I'll speak personally. :::cracks knuckles::: I may go tangential, so get ready...


Most of the music I've been purchasing nowadays is imported from Europe and elsewhere. I love American music (just look at my avatar and screenname), but since 2000 - present, more and more of my consumer monies are going towards imported albums and singles. And the funny thing is, even the American artists I like are imports!

Why? Well, for one, I love dance and electronic music. F*ck what Eminem or anybody says, "PEOPLE STILL LISTEN TO TECHNO!" It just simply isn't voluminous in the U.S. -- so I have no choice other than to side with the Europeans here -- plus, most Americans strangely treat it like a bastard step-cousin (other than in cities like DET, CHI, LA, NYC, etc.), so I'm pretty much forced to hit up the import section of the record store or the internet for my FIX. Plus, I love the European sensibility in pop music. Today's American pop is too sonically dark-sounding for my liking, it's not danceable enough and barely melodic! I don't like feeling moody or angry when dancing, but apparently suburban kids can nevermind this aspect!

I like hip hop, but not into the current "Crunk" sound -- you're right TonyVanDam, U.S. rap & R&B is getting slower and slower by the second with all these humdrum a** BPMs -- and with the surgence of the "SNAP" trend, it's getting worser every quarter. The Black American music establishment has currently abandoned upbeat melodies! WTF?! There is little sonic balance. Why is everybody so damn TOUGH nowadays?! These Boost Mobile/chirp phone havin', white tee wearin' mofos love it, *I* can't take it, and certainly won't dance to it. I will say that I do LOVE the alternative/gay hip hop scene bubbling under the surface in America and worldwide though, that has been hip hop's saving grace for me -- thank G*D.

And to be brutally honest, R&B has become boring as hell to me, to the point where I don't even check for the s**t anymore, no matter which side of the Atlantic it's on. Ever since Usher, Destiny's Child, Alicia Keys, and all these saccharin folks usurped the scene, I find it really grating to listen to. Other than a few acts, I don't give a f**k about R&B anymore and have pretty much tuned out.

At my young age, being pop culturally aware, social and what not, I *can't* escape what's hot in the mainstream @ the moment... I recognize it for what it is and know HOW to listen to it! If you happen to spot me at a function "enjoying" this type of music with friends or out and about, it's mainly because I've rationalized pop culture, the scene, my levels of tolerance to industry music and can have fun regardless ...and am sometimes intoxicated!

Don't get me wrong and paint me a pessimist or hater of my generation. FAR FROM, BABY! All in all, I'm loving the music coming out of this time period Having so much fun with all the acts I am discovering over the years. And I'm loving the whole retro-futurist thing going on in dance music right now!!!


HATS OFF TO THE EUROPEANS, SWEDES[!], NORWEGIANS, AUSTRALIANS, SRI LANKANS, JAPANESE, ETC. FOR KEEPING DANCE & ELECTRONIC MUSIC ALIVE*!



Edit: And if you didn't guess it already, I say TRUE[!!!]
[Edited 3/25/06 12:21pm]

JANFAN4L said:

1. BTW, don't forget about Miami & Orlando, FL. They always have a lot of dance music available.

2. Hell yeah, I all into buying imported CDs myself. It's part of the reason why (and how) I became a fan of Kylie! And lets not forget how the french producers has done a wonderful job in keeping House alive.

3. Hell yeah, there are people that still listen to Techno. But for the time being (at least here in USA) they still have to go underground to find it! Well at least Electro & Breakbeats are very easily to seek for. It still being use in video games & movies.

4. As for Hip-Hop (mainstream or underground), the MC's are getting too much credit. This genre need to be DJ oriented again. This genre needs to be more positive & happy again (BTW, The Black Eyed Peas, OutKast, & Kanye West simply can't do it all by themselves. It needs a Hip-Hop Army!!! ). Also, bring back the major key scales!!! .

Screw all you guys!! Caribbean Music is the best

TonyVanDam said:

Oh, I haven't. But we're talking about the "21st Century." I was REALLY into the Southeastern/Miami Bass and Orlando Quad scene in the '90s before it morphed into "Crunk" and got darker and downtempo. But I'm always up for recommendations, if you know any dance artists I can check out.



The French House scene is lovely. I like how they keep '70s soulful disco and '80s black roots house alive in their sound. Daft Punk, Cassius, Phoenix, Braxe, Chezere -- all great. Plus, I'm not a blinkered person. I don't rely solely on American radio or music channels to keep abreast on "what's hot." Usually if it's on MTV or whatever, the s**t is corporate and old-hat anyway. A person who's really into music knows that. Plus, it's fun DISCOVERING new stuff. Man, I'll tell ya. There are so many groups out right now that Americans complaining about the state of music are not even paying attention to and they are making INCREDIBLE music right now. I would say some names, but it'll just fall on deaf ears here. I could seriously O.D. on all the music I'm discovering every week ...and I've barely scratched the surface!



Yeah, I know. Club/dance music is not in vogue right now in the States. Last time it had it's proper shine was in the early 90s. That's when everybody was making some kind of house-inspired record (you even had hip house back then). I understand that Techno/Electronic/Dance has been reduced to cult status while everybody gets the Crunk out of their system. Pop music is an interesting beast, you never know when something will come back in vogue. For instance, I'm really loving how the electronic community has really embraced a retro-futuristic panache. You have electro-pop (which I LOVE), electro-house, etc. But you know what I find funny about Americans, some folks love to hate on techno or electro or whatever, but will turn around and sample the s**t out of it in a record (think Missy's "Lose Control.") That's a TECHNO SONG you're listening to! How can you mistake that Cybotron rip?! haha.



ALL elements of hip hop need to be utilized. Right now the MC is at the forefront and the "new jack producer" has taken the reigns away from the DJ. Rap music is bastardized at best if you don't have that DJ element. Plus, mainstream rap needs more sonic balance. I have no idea when it's gonna happen, but one day hip hop needs to embrace FUN again. The s**t is not fun anymore. It's a drag to dance to. I will always keep a spot in my heart for hip hop though because I know where it's been and I have hope for where it can go.

definetly TRUE!

the good thing about Australia is both american and european music is popular here, a mixture of both, and i have to say the music from the brits is kicking the americans asses, the best songs and my most favourite ones are coming from them. im talking in terms of pop music anyway.

PFunkjazz said:

Truth hurts...

Miles said:

Radiohead is weak stuff?
Have I misunderstood?
Have you heard The Bends?
Or OK Computer?

dreamfactory313 said:

Exactly! These days,I find myself listening to more and more music that is made outside of America....artists like Remy Shand,Jamiroquai,JuniorSenior,etc.Madonna's recent albums are European-sounding too and at this point,I don't want her to ever make an American-sounding album again,lol.

Europeans are definately making better music than Americans these days. Americans seem to be stuck in the midtempo mode and will not get off it.

However, the techno, acid, or whatever the hell is called now, does not appeal to me enough to buy. It all started from house but it has become almost undanceable these days. The beat is actually too fast in a lot of the songs and people are hopping around on the dance floors like stoned rabbits rather than actually dancing.

Then there are some songs that sound really good but they are repetitive all the way through. You can put the needle anywhere in the song at it sounds the same, it never changes up during the song. Even though it may sound good, it gets boring. Songs like that are great to mix in the background of other songs but they get boring to listen to straight through.

I agree with Janfan4l that the best "dance" music was in the early 1990s when it was still considered "house". Groups like Black Box, The 49ers, Clubland, M People, Lonnie Gordon, Crystal Waters, Ce Ce Penniston, etc. made house music but the tracks were full fledged songs rather than just a repetitive beat all the way through. They were also at a tempo that was very funky and "danceable" not "hoppable".
.
.
[Edited 3/27/06 7:17am]

vainandy said:

1.) Trance (THAT genre you mistakenly call techno) really sucks. I tell everyone that Chicago House & Detroit Techno were never the problem: It's trance!!! And I can never understand why or how THIS electronic genre gets the most media coverage!

Believe me, there's something about a genre that's trying too hard to be classical with rapid-fire drum beats that is only enjoyable when you're high on MDMA or acid that I just find so not funk at all!!!

2.) I'm still with you VA, the american music industry needs to increase the tempo. The 95 BPM tempo (use a lot in hip-hop/r&b) is so boring. We can't be listening to that gangsta C.R.A.P. forever!

EDIT: C.R.A.P. = Contemporary Rap And Pop