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PrintableCinisterCee said: Actually, I think a lot of people earmark one woman responsible for pushing her image to the forefront. We give this woman a lot of credit on the org, but not for making mainstream music suffer.
Did someone threaten to cut your tongue out or something?... 
... 
tA  Tribal Disorder
http://www.soundclick.com...dID=182431 "Ya see, we're not interested in what you know...but what you are willing to learn. C'mon y'all." | |
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 I sold my soul to her. | |
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Britney was the sign of the end, I agree. It's just that she become the symbol for the very final landslide, and also the most successful "artist" of her generation. | |
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When rappers went from rapping to selling soda, sneakers and hamburgers. All you others say Hell Yea!!  | |
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The 90's!!! Keenmeister |
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nah, britney's shit was fine at first. It was good to have pop from the USA again after too much rnb from USA in the mid 90's.
That limp bizcuit or whatever that nu metal was, was awful. "rollin'". Man what a song. My mate made a whole rap, using the verse structure. "i know ur loving this shit right here, e double dd, edd long is right here". Classic 
and papa roach. I once told someone that there was a jacko remix of that "cut my life into pieces" song, whcih was a mashup of jacko's "ghosts" vs papa roach. I said it went.... "cut my life into peices" and jacko would say "boo iam a ghost!". He went back to listen to "ghosts" from jacko's album. He beleived me. | |
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Graycap23 said: scorp84 said: Maybe it started "suffering" when you stopped liking it.
I think a big part of it started when all of the big corporations started buying up the smaller labels and a lot of the creativity dried up. There used to be tons of smaller lables but where are they today? Not to mention the impact of hiphop. Most of the hiphop generation of musicians could not PLAY an instrument if it killed them. I know there are exceptions to that but in general it's true. Just my 2 cents. You are exactly right. I had forgotten about the big corporations buying up the smaller labels. They are controlling who gets signed and Clear Channel is controlling who gets played. You are right on target about the hip hop also. No musicians to be paid, no instruments to buy, no backup singers to pay. Just slap on a midtempo beat, loop a section of an old record, get some thug (who is very stupid and can easily be cheated) to "talk" over the song, and make loads of profit with hardly any spending. Things aren't going to change any time soon. Now I hear Clear Channel is buying musical venues and nightclubs. They are going to make sure that there is no avenue where real music can ever threaten their cheap music. Andy is a four letter word. | |
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paligap said: ...
This has been posted before, since this keeps coming up, but this has been my two cents: * True, the Industry has never inspired creativity, but you used to need talent. Image has always sold records, but since the mid'80's, Image has gradually become The most important thing. Talent is, at best, an afterthought now. I agree with Davideye --in the 80's with the advent of video, image slowly began to to take over the need for talent. as Quincy Jones once pointed out , when there was just records and radio, a singer could come to the studio with rollers in her hair--it didn't matter what you looked like--as long as you could sing * Members of groups like Earth Wind and Fire have pointed out that years ago, a label would sign an artist or group, have them tour and hone their craft and gradually build an audience of loyal fans, and create a base that would support an act over the years. The companies then weren't expecting you to necessarily be an immediate Smash hit out of the gate--they wanted it to build over time. Now you get a one or two album deal, and if you don't make it big, you're out the door... The Corporations know now that the best way for them to make money is to just put an act out there, hype them with plenty of media exposure and Clear Channel airplay, pimp'em for a couple of years, and when that hype dies down, bring in someone new and start it all over again. It's more cost-effective for them. The music suffers in the long run, but they get their money. as Prince has pointed out, the heads of these companies now don't have to know anything about music. They come from accounting, law and business backgrounds... * Despite loud, showy protest about industry "payola", companies like Clear Channel make sure that some kind of payola is the norm --and only labels that "play ball" will get any airplay for their"artists".... *Producer/ writers/arrangers of decades past-- Quincy, Arif Mardin, Burt Bacharach, Charles Stepney Thom Bell, Norman Whitfield, et al, -- came up learning Classical, Jazz, Blues, Gospel, Rock, Pop, Country, etc.. they had to learn all of it, along with Composition, Music theory, arranging, writing charts, etc. A producer today is anyone who can put some beats and samples together.... That's certainly not saying that there isn't creativity now. Hip Hop has plenty of creativity, but the most creative ones aren't the ones selling big numbers. Artists like The Roots and Mos Def have the respect, but they aren't the ones selling the Multi-Platinum records right now...unfortunately, it's people like the Black Eyed Peas and Lil' John that will sell more....Companies know that you can never go wrong by appealing to the lowest common denominator--the lowest expectations. The records that celebrate thug life, Ho's, partying, gettin paid, are the ones that sell --the companies bottom lined it--- decided if that's what kids buy, why do they need to push anything else? ...and it's because the industry also knows that your average person really just doesn't give a shit about music. The people that are really passionate about music--people that are on Music sites like the Org--- are quite a minority compared to the average person, who just wants something to dance to, something to drive to, or something to put in the background and ignore.... They may vaguely be aware that music doesn't resonate quite like it used to, but they're not sure why...  you hit the nail on the head,as always | |
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1999...it started REALLY sucking. | |
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Krystal666 said: 1999...it started REALLY sucking.
Can you believe that the biggest-selling single of that year was Cher's "Believe"?  | |
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CinisterCee said: Actually, I think a lot of people earmark one woman responsible for pushing her image to the forefront. We give this woman a lot of credit on the org, but not for making mainstream music suffer.
 "I saw a woman with major Hammer pants on the subway a few weeks ago and totally thought of you." - sextonseven | |
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DavidEye said: Krystal666 said: 1999...it started REALLY sucking.
Can you believe that the biggest-selling single of that year was Cher's "Believe"? I just remember Kid Rock, Limp Bizket, Brittney Spears, Christian Auglara, crap, crap and more crap. | |
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i think pop culture is a reflection of where society is at any given time. we've been living in very repressive times over the past decade or so, and i think the state of modern mainstream music reflects that. | |
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Krystal666 said: 1999...it started REALLY sucking.
I totally agreed. Even back in the late 90s when I was listening to 70s and 80s music, there were a lot of great music made in the late 90s wayy better than it is today. I know fifteen year olds who despite today's music. Ten years ago those same people around that age didn't feel the same of the current music that played around the late 90s. | |
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Ive seen so many threads like this before time and time again. Why do y'all old folks always complain about today's mainstream music? Y'all keep one bringing up old acts from 50s, 60s, 70s, 80, etc and cryin about how its not the same now as it was back then.
Whats wrong with today mainstream music you ask? Besides the fact it continues to evolve as always, nothing is wrong with it. Mainstream music has evolved since ***insert your favorite decade here*** - and when you were listening to THAT music of that time, people who were much older than you at the time, didnt really like it and couldnt get into it - just like how y'all can get into todays mainstream music. Thats history repeating itself. And as you get older and older, mainstream/pop music stays aimed at the young audience. Mainstream doesnt and will NEVER evolve with its listeners age. Dont blame the artists, blame corporate America (or as we young'ins like to say, dont hate player, hate the game). Your favorite artists of your favorite decade (that is if their not already dead or retired) either didnt want to or couldnt adapt to the popular (or "in") trendy sound of that time, so they just fell the hell t Some oldies do try to appeal to the trendy ("in") sound are either successfully manage to stay "relevant" or "active" (some oldie fans consider this 'selling out') or fail miserably at it, flop and fade from pop scene. And if the latter are still around to today, chances are their dwelling in the indie scene as well as new upcoming artists with a similar sound you'll definately like. So stop listening to whats the radio or what videos are on TV and start looking into the independent/underground scene - thats where the real music is at. Now me personally, I was really into the (rap/soul) music of the 90s and early 2000s (many of these artists are now on the indie scene) but Im not feeling 50% of the similistic shit nowadays and muthafuckas younger than me are loving that shit. But I dont complain, I just except it. I go to different websites (allhiphop.com, dubcnn.com, honeysoul.com, soul-brother.com, jazz-not-jazz.net, etc.) and see what else is what there. [Edited 3/16/06 9:36am] | |
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Anx said: i think pop culture is a reflection of where society is at any given time. we've been living in very repressive times over the past decade or so, and i think the state of modern mainstream music reflects that.
not to be obnoxious or anything, but i REALLY believe this. | |
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Anx said: Anx said: i think pop culture is a reflection of where society is at any given time. we've been living in very repressive times over the past decade or so, and i think the state of modern mainstream music reflects that.
not to be obnoxious or anything, but i REALLY believe this. OK, but what does that explain about music trends? Elaborate. Expound. | |
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CinisterCee said: Anx said: not to be obnoxious or anything, but i REALLY believe this. OK, but what does that explain about music trends? Elaborate. Expound. when a society is kept within bounds, then that is reflected in the art that comes out of that society. if we're made to feel repressed and afraid, then our art is going to be safe and banal because that's the tone of the environment. the past decade has not been characterized by a zeal for taking chances. | |
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CinisterCee said: Anx said: not to be obnoxious or anything, but i REALLY believe this. OK, but what does that explain about music trends? Elaborate. Expound. And what about the 60s counter-culture in both the U.S. and Britain, and the wonderful music that came out of the repressive times leading up to that period? You'd think there would be a wealth of creative genius flowing nowdays, with artists wanting to push new limits, and do something pretty extraordinary, and at the same time be able to reach a broad audience, in other words be lifted into the mainstream without being just some sort of pre-fab clones. I still blame MTV.  "I saw a woman with major Hammer pants on the subway a few weeks ago and totally thought of you." - sextonseven | |
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I blame baby boomers. | |
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I believe companys are just out to make as much $$$$ as they can, music today is JUST aimed at the younger audience, when do U ever see Neil diamond or Van morrison on TOPT's, also ts all about "How can we make more $$$$, i know lets make a music video taking the piss outta other stars" Controversy sells, but there are acts that do it WAY TOOO much and is happneing way to much, the music is shite but its all over the papers because of something said or done in the video to make it Controversy.....
Face it, 90's 00's suck!!! Keenmeister |
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I've felt things went wrong in the 90's.
The record companys got behind the Seattle grunge scene as the next big thing with the 2 biggest stars being Pearl Jam & Nirvana. Then Nirvana expired, Pearl Jam nixed the idea of becoming a rock monster moneymaking machine & then the grunge scene fizzled out. The record companies were left with nothing & turned their support to the Britneys & Backstreet Boys - acts that were controlled by a management team. This worked and it brought in the $$$ and everyone was happy. Problem is this is producing short term product. Its not that there is more crap produced these days - there is just less quality work. You have to search to find it & it seldom reachs the radio. | |
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andykeen said: I believe companys are just out to make as much $$$$ as they can, music today is JUST aimed at the younger audience, when do U ever see Neil diamond or Van morrison on TOPT's, also ts all about "How can we make more $$$$, i know lets make a music video taking the piss outta other stars" Controversy sells, but there are acts that do it WAY TOOO much and is happneing way to much, the music is shite but its all over the papers because of something said or done in the video to make it Controversy.....
Face it, 90's 00's suck!!! Like I said, I blame MTV. "I saw a woman with major Hammer pants on the subway a few weeks ago and totally thought of you." - sextonseven | |
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I feel music actually started to suffer in the 90's. However IMO, there was a MAJOR shift in music in 87' and there was a major shift in 92, and not for the better.
On a slightly left field note, I believe the simultaneous explosion of NWA and 2 Live Crew changed "black" music and the black community, and not in a good way. A study should be done on the effects of that event. I am convinced Beyonce's career would not be where it is, if she had dark skin. | |
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When rap and hiphop became acceptable to the general public, like to kids who are 12 and under, and started being commercialized in everything from TV commercials to whatever else it is you can think of. And when that started to branch out and all these other "styles of music" caught on the bandwagon, like triphop and reggaeton. | |
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DavidEye said: Krystal666 said: 1999...it started REALLY sucking.
Can you believe that the biggest-selling single of that year was Cher's "Believe"? It should have been. That's about the only song I can think of that I actually like from that year. Andy is a four letter word. | |
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The beginning of the end was when Michael Jackson blew up the importance of video's. It seems that once the video imagery kicked in, the quality and talent started to regress. These days, videos are more important than how the song actually sounds.
A good example of that is "Hey Ya" by Outkast. The song sucks ass without the video. I love the video myself but the song is extremely weak on its own merits. | |
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Prospect said: Ive seen so many threads like this before time and time again. Why do y'all old folks always complain about today's mainstream music? Y'all keep one bringing up old acts from 50s, 60s, 70s, 80, etc and cryin about how its not the same now as it was back then.
Whats wrong with today mainstream music you ask? Besides the fact it continues to evolve as always, nothing is wrong with it. Mainstream music has evolved since ***insert your favorite decade here*** - and when you were listening to THAT music of that time, people who were much older than you at the time, didnt really like it and couldnt get into it - just like how y'all can get into todays mainstream music. Thats history repeating itself. And as you get older and older, mainstream/pop music stays aimed at the young audience. Mainstream doesnt and will NEVER evolve with its listeners age. Dont blame the artists, blame corporate America (or as we young'ins like to say, dont hate player, hate the game). Your favorite artists of your favorite decade (that is if their not already dead or retired) either didnt want to or couldnt adapt to the popular (or "in") trendy sound of that time, so they just fell the hell t Some oldies do try to appeal to the trendy ("in") sound are either successfully manage to stay "relevant" or "active" (some oldie fans consider this 'selling out') or fail miserably at it, flop and fade from pop scene. And if the latter are still around to today, chances are their dwelling in the indie scene as well as new upcoming artists with a similar sound you'll definately like. So stop listening to whats the radio or what videos are on TV and start looking into the independent/underground scene - thats where the real music is at. Now me personally, I was really into the (rap/soul) music of the 90s and early 2000s (many of these artists are now on the indie scene) but Im not feeling 50% of the similistic shit nowadays and muthafuckas younger than me are loving that shit. But I dont complain, I just except it. I go to different websites (allhiphop.com, dubcnn.com, honeysoul.com, soul-brother.com, jazz-not-jazz.net, etc.) and see what else is what there. [Edited 3/16/06 9:36am] Look at all the artists that started in either the 1960s or the 1970s and spilled over into the 1980s and continued to make music and some of them did very well: Diana Ross: Upside Down I'm Coming Out Muscles Swept Away Smokey Robinson: Being With You You Are Forever Who's Sad I've Made Love To You A Thousand Times The Temptations: Power Standing On The Top Treat Her Like A Lady The Chi-Lites: Bottoms Up Con-Funk-Shun: Too Tight Got To Be Enough Love's Train Ms. Got The Body Electric Lady Brick: Push Push Sweat (Till You Get Wet) Lakeside: Fantastic Voyage Your Love Is On The One Say Yes Something About That Woman Raid Turn The Music Up Relationship Chaka Khan: Whatcha' Gonna Do For Me I Feel For You Through The Fire Earth To Mickey The Barkays: Boogie Bodyland Body Fever Hit And Run Traffic Jammer Freaky Behavior Do It (Let Me See You Shake) She Talks To Me With Her Body Anticipation Freakshow On The Dance Floor Dirty Dancer Sex-O-Matic Your Place Or Mine The Manhattens: Forever By Your Side Bloodstone: We Go A Long Way Back Cameo: Keep It Hot Feel Me Your Love Takes Me Out Freaky Dancing Be Yourself Soul Army Alligator Woman Flirt Style Word Up You Make Me Work War: Outlaw You Got The Power Marvin Gaye: Sanctified Lady Sexual Healing Earth, Wind, & Fire: Let's Groove Changing Times Magnetic System Of Survival Stevie Wonder: Master Blaster (Jammin') Happy Birthday Ribbon In The Sky Do I Do I Just Called To Say I Love You Those are just a few and some of them like The Barkays, Diana Ross, The Temptations, Smokey Robinson, and Marvin Gaye had been around since the 1960s and still had very successful songs in the 1980s. Lots of people in their 30s and 40s were also enjoying current music during the 1980s. Very few people in their 30s and 40s enjoyed music during the 1990s or present. From the 1990s until the present, very few older groups have spilled over. The Barkays, Cameo, and War made attempts in the 1990s and received little or no airplay. In the 1980s, even if a song didn't do well, it still got airplay. Also, the older groups in the 1980s did fast and slow songs. The only ones that spilled over into the 1990s and had any success at all were the ones like Shitney Houston that do slow or midtempo stuff only. Hell, the only thing the new artists did and still do is slow or midtempo. They are going backwards instead of forwards. The older people before the rock and roll era hated new music because of the tempo and called it the "devil's music". If it weren't for the cussing in the new music, the grandmothers should love it because it's certainly slow enough for them. It's not because people are getting older. Music has actually gone straight to hell. . . [Edited 3/16/06 14:20pm] Andy is a four letter word. | |
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vainandy said: It's totally different. It's not just people getting older. Music has actually gone straight to hell. . . [Edited 3/16/06 14:17pm] Thanks to crap.....leave the "c" off. | |
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Graycap23 said: vainandy said: It's totally different. It's not just people getting older. Music has actually gone straight to hell. . . [Edited 3/16/06 14:17pm] Thanks to crap.....leave the "c" off. Exactly. That's what killed it all. Andy is a four letter word. | |
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