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PrintableDarlingDiana said: jayaredee said: The difference is all those artists mentioned are still making music and having big success in their own rights. MJ's success is always based on past efforts, and really no one cares.
And it's Amazon, a friggen internet store. You can sell 80 copies of a cd and make it on that chart. Who cares? Invincible was a great album and a big success (#1 in 13 countries). Since then, what time has he had to release music? There was a lot of talk about a new MJ album in 2003, but guess what, some dumb-ass KKK old fat shit said Michael molested a boy. This shit went on for nearly 2 years until June 13 2005. Since then, Michael has been resting and possibly working on new music. He will have a new album out shortly. Just because he hasn't released anything since 2001 doesn't mean he isn't making music. He's probably recorded hundreds of songs since Invincible. Come on...now you are reaching...I admit that a lot of critics unfairly downplay MJ's success to shit on the man (The Eagles Vs. MJ debate is just one example...) But you lose credibility by saying Invincible was a great album...while it had it's moments ("Butterfly" and "Heaven Can Wait" come to mind...both brilliant showcases of his underrated vocal prowess); But as a whole it just wasn't a good album...Even some hardcore MJ fans would admit it...(Yo Katty, back me up....) [Edited 3/13/06 2:08am] | |
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I admit it isn't his best, and as an album it doesn't work, but there are some really, really top class songs on that album. | |
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im sorry but not only has michael sold more albums than madonna he has also sold more singles. This is not open for debate, its not a talking point, its not even an opinion. THIS IS FACT! also, ur right he isnt the 3rd best selling, he is the biggest selling. | |
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DarlingDiana said: Michael Jackson is not 3rd best selling. He's lower than that. He's definately in the top 10 worldwide, but not #3. Elvis, The Beatles, Madonna, Nana Mouskouri have all outsold him. He's only sold 200 million worldwide, including Motown.
[Edited 3/13/06 3:27am] OK, guys. I don´t know the exact numbers, but whatever the number for Mj is, it should be also considered that he has managed to reach this number ONLY with 6 albums, or 7 with Blood on the Dancefloor, since 1979, while for example, Madonna has released 16 albums. Now if I wonder what would be to total number of his sales if he also released 16 albums. I don´t know how about Beatles or Elvis, but they sure had even more released albums than that. As for Invincible, it´s not my favourite. my favourite is Dangerous, but I listen to it more that I listen to Thriller for example. "When Michael Jackson is just singing and dancing, you just think this is an astonishing talent. And he has had this astounding talent all his life, but we want him to be floored as well. We really don´t like the idea that he could have it all." | |
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cborgman said: P2daP said: he only realses an album every 5 years. shoot, you gota talk about something! lol.  Damn shame | |
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I think this album is the most underrated MJ album ever. IMHO, it's better than alot of his previous albums. I would never knock Thriller because it's a classic....BUT, I think Invincible is slightly better than Thriller. "It's not what they call you, it's what you respond to." - Mabel "Madea" Simmons | |
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technically invincible has a far better array of music than thriller, and individually the songs are better.
Butterflies, Heaven Can Wait, You Rock my World, Speechless and Whatever Happens easily top the tracks on Thriller. | |
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This list was published by the IFPI (International Federation of Phonographic Industry) in January 2006. Albums and Singles worldwide:
The Beatles 400,000,000 Michael Jackson 350,000,000 Elvis Presley 300,000,000 Madonna 275,000,000 Nana Mouskouri 250,000,000 Cliff Richard 250,000,000 The Rolling Stones 250,000,000 Mariah Carey 250,000,000 Elton John 220,000,000 Celine Dion 220,000,000 Of course this is without all the MOTOWN-Sales from the J5 and Solo. | |
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thanx so much for that, this is the official list i was talkin about, as u can see, michael jackson is clearly the biggest selling artist of all time. This is not a fake list, its the most official list u will ever see. | |
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That is NOT an official list. It was made up. The IFPI denied that this list came from them. Michael Jackson has not sold 350 million.
Off The Wall = approx 20 million Thriller = approx 50 million Bad = approx 30 million Dangerous = approx 30 million HIStory = approx 15 million Blood = approx 5 million Invincible = approx 8 million HIStory Disc 1 re-release = 3 million Number Ones = approx 6 million Essential = approx 2 million TOTAL = approx 169 million albums There is no way he sold 181 million singles to makes up the 350M figure. I'd say he's sold no more than about 50 million singles, making his total about 220 million. Seriously, he is sitting on about 200-220 million or a bit more. That's probably just enough to put him in the top 10 of best selling artists worldwide, at #10. All this stuff about MJ being the best selling artist ever is complete BS and a marketing sceme. It has made up by his record company and his PR people. He sells more than his peers (Prince, Madonna and his sister) on average, but unlike them, he release one album every 4-6 years. In the time Prince could release 4 albums, MJ would only release 1. That's why, if he keeps going at this rate, he will never be the best selling artist of all-time. When he dies, even the massive sales boost that comes with most major music artists death, Jacko wont sell enough to make him the biggest selling artist ever. One of, but not THE. | |
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DarlingDiana said: That is NOT an official list. It was made up. The IFPI denied that this list came from them. Michael Jackson has not sold 350 million.
Off The Wall = approx 20 million Thriller = approx 50 million Bad = approx 30 million Dangerous = approx 30 million HIStory = approx 15 million Blood = approx 5 million Invincible = approx 8 million HIStory Disc 1 re-release = 3 million Number Ones = approx 6 million Essential = approx 2 million TOTAL = approx 169 million albums There is no way he sold 181 million singles to makes up the 350M figure. I'd say he's sold no more than about 50 million singles, making his total about 220 million. Seriously, he is sitting on about 200-220 million or a bit more. That's probably just enough to put him in the top 10 of best selling artists worldwide, at #10. All this stuff about MJ being the best selling artist ever is complete BS and a marketing sceme. It has made up by his record company and his PR people. He sells more than his peers (Prince, Madonna and his sister) on average, but unlike them, he release one album every 4-6 years. In the time Prince could release 4 albums, MJ would only release 1. That's why, if he keeps going at this rate, he will never be the best selling artist of all-time. When he dies, even the massive sales boost that comes with most major music artists death, Jacko wont sell enough to make him the biggest selling artist ever. One of, but not THE. I hate talking about, "when Michael dies.." 
But, I do think no matter how many albums he releases between now and then, he will be one of the biggest artists in pop culture, with or without his title of being the "biggest selling recording artist." Futher, "Thriller" will be probably the only album to be the biggest selling album by a solo artist for many decades to come. I don't predict Justin Timberlake's follow up having "Thriller" numbers. 
Back to the topic at hand, I am really getting into "Invincible" as of late. "You Rock My World" is a staple on my iPod. And in my car, I have this awesome remix of "You Rock My World VS Justin Timberlake's, Rock Your Body" which is great!  | |
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NorthernLad said: is Invicible the worst album of the last 15 years by a major artist?
I think a strong argument could be made that it is. IF you still consider freak show a "major artist." Sounds like you haven't listened to the album. It's actually not as bas as all that. There are certainly a lot worse albums out there by major artists and it sounds like you're just jumping on the bashing bandwagon. | |
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DarlingDiana said: I admit it isn't his best, and as an album it doesn't work, but there are some really, really top class songs on that album.
Agreed!  | |
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DarlingDiana said: That is NOT an official list. It was made up. The IFPI denied that this list came from them. Michael Jackson has not sold 350 million.
Off The Wall = approx 20 million Thriller = approx 50 million Bad = approx 30 million Dangerous = approx 30 million HIStory = approx 15 million Blood = approx 5 million Invincible = approx 8 million HIStory Disc 1 re-release = 3 million Number Ones = approx 6 million Essential = approx 2 million TOTAL = approx 169 million albums There is no way he sold 181 million singles to makes up the 350M figure. I'd say he's sold no more than about 50 million singles, making his total about 220 million. Seriously, he is sitting on about 200-220 million or a bit more. That's probably just enough to put him in the top 10 of best selling artists worldwide, at #10. All this stuff about MJ being the best selling artist ever is complete BS and a marketing sceme. It has made up by his record company and his PR people. He sells more than his peers (Prince, Madonna and his sister) on average, but unlike them, he release one album every 4-6 years. In the time Prince could release 4 albums, MJ would only release 1. That's why, if he keeps going at this rate, he will never be the best selling artist of all-time. When he dies, even the massive sales boost that comes with most major music artists death, Jacko wont sell enough to make him the biggest selling artist ever. One of, but not THE. Don't forget to count Michael Jackson's early solo albums from the '70s, not the J5 material...He tops out at about 201 million album sales wise when you add those up..I also would like to see a total of his single sales, cause in the '80s and early '90s, the man was selling a shit-load of singles (If you care about those type of things).... As far as Mike's legacy, I think it's quite fair to say that MJ will never meet the artistic levels and top flight musical prowess of Prince; But in terms of iconic status (I'm a bigger fan of the purple midget than I am of Mike, although, like most Prince fans, I grew up with MJ's music) MJ can't be touched in his era...With all the career-ending scandals and artistic stumbles, its important to remember just how huge Jackson was in the '80s...dude could do no wrong, except for Bad...But that's another story...Look at it this way...MJ won the sprint; Prince won the marathon... [Edited 3/14/06 2:52am] | |
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murph said: Look at it this way...MJ won the sprint; Prince won the marathon...
So far. | |
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well I think invincible is a piece of crap with a few nice songs on it...
doesnt change the fact that he created some of the most beautiful music ever and is in a league of his own and I do not understand why murph feels the need to compare him to Prince all the time...i mean its already been discussed like a million times here before... | |
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LightOfArt said: well I think invincible is a piece of crap with a few nice songs on it...
doesnt change the fact that he created some of the most beautiful music ever and is in a league of his own and I do not understand why murph feels the need to compare him to Prince all the time...i mean its already been discussed like a million times here before... Well, I brought up Prince because the previous post I was referring to mentioned the midget in connetion with Jackson...Light, try reading the full post before going after folks...Life will be much more simpler and you will come off a lot smarter...Cool? [Edited 3/14/06 3:37am] | |
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well if u think jacko has only sold 50million singles in his 35 year career u will b sadly mistaken. We practically hit 50million already with We are the World.
Also if u take into consideration the fact that scream sold 4million, tdcau and stranger in moscow a combined 5million and earth song sold 6million in Europe alone. That makes 4 singles totally 15million sales. You Rock my World also sold a million copies in France. Thats just a small snapshot! | |
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FunkyBrotha said: well if u think jacko has only sold 50million singles in his 35 year career u will b sadly mistaken. We practically hit 50million already with We are the World.
Also if u take into consideration the fact that scream sold 4million, tdcau and stranger in moscow a combined 5million and earth song sold 6million in Europe alone. That makes 4 singles totally 15million sales. You Rock my World also sold a million copies in France. Thats just a small snapshot! Interesting..... | |
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murph said: Well, I brought up Prince because the previous post I was referring to mentioned the midget in connetion with Jackson...Light, try reading the full post before going after folks...Life will be much more simpler and you will come off a lot smarter...Cool?
[Edited 3/14/06 3:37am] coming after you? well I was just mentioning a Prince comparison was pretty stupid on an Invincible thread. whoever started it why are you so touchy anyway?  | |
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bottom line. michael jackson has sold a whole lot of freakin' albums!!! | |
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JPW said: NorthernLad said: is Invicible the worst album of the last 15 years by a major artist?
I think a strong argument could be made that it is. IF you still consider freak show a "major artist." Sounds like you haven't listened to the album. It's actually not as bas as all that. There are certainly a lot worse albums out there by major artists and it sounds like you're just jumping on the bashing bandwagon. Nope. No bandwagon-jumping, here. I've listened to "Invincible." I think it's bland, over-produced crap. To me, everything about "Invincible" reeks of a desperate attempt to obtain commercial relevance again. It's not about music. It's a calculated attempt to recapture some of MJ's long-lost hitmaking prowess. It's lazy thinking to assume that because someone doesn't like an album, they are just jumping on with others to "bash" an artist. | |
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LightOfArt said: murph said: Well, I brought up Prince because the previous post I was referring to mentioned the midget in connetion with Jackson...Light, try reading the full post before going after folks...Life will be much more simpler and you will come off a lot smarter...Cool?
[Edited 3/14/06 3:37am] coming after you? well I was just mentioning a Prince comparison was pretty stupid on an Invincible thread. whoever started it why are you so touchy anyway? Becaue you deliberately made it seem like I brought Prince up...If you would have read the thread that I was referring to, you wouldn't have made such a statement...No harm, no foul...Everything's cool...Just make sure you are informed before you make a comment...Cool? | |
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I think all his albums since Bad has been touch and go. You can hear the desperation in MJ trying to recapture that "Thriller" moment with each subsequent album.
What people don't understand about Thriller is that what happened was so unexpected(although it has been said MJ wasn't surprise about the success of Thriller) no one in a million yrs could have anticipated what happened with that album. But ever since Bad every album had to hype up before release. I truely believe that albums like Bad and Dangerous only sold as well as they did because of the hype and the success of Thriller. | |
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whatsgoingon said: I think all his albums since Bad has been touch and go. You can hear the desperation in MJ trying to recapture that "Thriller" moment with each subsequent album.
What people don't understand about Thriller is that what happened was so unexpected(although it has been said MJ wasn't surprise about the success of Thriller) no one in a million yrs could have anticipated what happened with that album. But ever since Bad every album had to hype up before release. I truely believe that albums like Bad and Dangerous only sold as well as they did because of the hype and the success of Thriller. umm every big pop artist hypes up there new albums, madonna has hyped up every single one of her new releases, does that mean shes trying to recapture like a virgin? i dont think so. its just what pop artists do. onto invincible i like about half the songs on the album, the other half were pure crap. the production is the worse ive ever heard, it sounded so cheap and tacky. every single new michael release i have liked better then the last. but invincible broke that. | |
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I don't think Thriller compares to Bad or Dangerous. I don't give a shit if they sold because of the Thriller hype (which I disagree with but, anyway). I think the are better albums, musically. Based on how good they are musically, not sales-wise, Bad and Dangerous are his best albums. Then equal second are HIStory and Invincible, and equal third are Thriller and Off The Wall.
It's surprising that people say Invincible is a few good songs mixed in with a clusterfuck of mediocroty. Because that's how I feel about Thriller. When you think about the only really good songs are Beat It, Billie Jean and Human Nature. The rest are mediocre and some (like TGIM) I don't like at all. On Invincible, I think Break of Dawn, You Rock My World, Butterflies and Whatever Happens are exceptionally great, and up there with Beat It, Billie Jean and Human Nature. Unbreakable, Heaven Can Wait, Speechless, 2000 Watts and Don't Walk Away are good but not great. The rest is mediocre, with some highlights through out, but as a whole... mediocre. If Invincible was a nine track album like Thriller, I think it would be considered as good or better than Thriller by critics, fans and the general music buying public. Take this for example... 1) Unbreakable 2) Break of Dawn 3) Heaven Can Wait 4) You Rock My World 5) Butterflies 6) Speechless 7) 2000 Watts 8) Don't Walk Away 9) Whatever Happens ^ That would make for a very good album. But then if you add in some of the unreleased treasure from the Invincible sessions, and B-sides from the Invincible singles, you could come up with something like this... 1) Unbreakable 2) Break of Dawn 3) Heaven Can Wait 4) You Rock My World 5) The Way You Love Me 6) Butterflies 7) Speechless 8) 2000 Watts 9) Beautiful Girl 10) Shout 11) Don't Walk Away 12) Whatever Happens ^ That is a perfect album IMO. [Edited 3/14/06 22:29pm] [Edited 3/14/06 22:30pm] | |
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DarlingDiana said: I don't think Thriller compares to Bad or Dangerous. I don't give a shit if they sold because of the Thriller hype (which I disagree with but, anyway). I think the are better albums, musically. Based on how good they are musically, not sales-wise, Bad and Dangerous are his best albums. Then equal second are HIStory and Invincible, and equal third are Thriller and Off The Wall.
It's surprising that people say Invincible is a few good songs mixed in with a clusterfuck of mediocroty. Because that's how I feel about Thriller. When you think about the only really good songs are Beat It, Billie Jean and Human Nature. The rest are mediocre and some (like TGIM) I don't like at all. On Invincible, I think Break of Dawn, You Rock My World, Butterflies and Whatever Happens are exceptionally great, and up there with Beat It, Billie Jean and Human Nature. Unbreakable, Heaven Can Wait, Speechless, 2000 Watts and Don't Walk Away are good but not great. The rest is mediocre, with some highlights through out, but as a whole... mediocre. If Invincible was a nine track album like Thriller, I think it would be considered as good or better than Thriller by critics, fans and the general music buying public. Take this for example... 1) Unbreakable 2) Break of Dawn 3) Heaven Can Wait 4) You Rock My World 5) Butterflies 6) Speechless 7) 2000 Watts 8) Don't Walk Away 9) Whatever Happens ^ That would make for a very good album. But then if you add in some of the unreleased treasure from the Invincible sessions, and B-sides from the Invincible singles, you could come up with something like this... 1) Unbreakable 2) Break of Dawn 3) Heaven Can Wait 4) You Rock My World 5) The Way You Love Me 6) Butterflies 7) Speechless 8) 2000 Watts 9) Beautiful Girl 10) Shout 11) Don't Walk Away 12) Whatever Happens ^ That is a perfect album IMO. [Edited 3/14/06 22:29pm] [Edited 3/14/06 22:30pm] I want what you are smoking...On the other hand, maybe you should sell it on the street...it seems pretty potent... [Edited 3/14/06 22:38pm] | |
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Trust me, you don't want what I'm smoking. It tastes like shit. | |
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DarlingDiana said: Trust me, you don't want what I'm smoking. It tastes like shit.
LOL... | |
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murph said: DarlingDiana said: I don't think Thriller compares to Bad or Dangerous. I don't give a shit if they sold because of the Thriller hype (which I disagree with but, anyway). I think the are better albums, musically. Based on how good they are musically, not sales-wise, Bad and Dangerous are his best albums. Then equal second are HIStory and Invincible, and equal third are Thriller and Off The Wall.
It's surprising that people say Invincible is a few good songs mixed in with a clusterfuck of mediocroty. Because that's how I feel about Thriller. When you think about the only really good songs are Beat It, Billie Jean and Human Nature. The rest are mediocre and some (like TGIM) I don't like at all. On Invincible, I think Break of Dawn, You Rock My World, Butterflies and Whatever Happens are exceptionally great, and up there with Beat It, Billie Jean and Human Nature. Unbreakable, Heaven Can Wait, Speechless, 2000 Watts and Don't Walk Away are good but not great. The rest is mediocre, with some highlights through out, but as a whole... mediocre. If Invincible was a nine track album like Thriller, I think it would be considered as good or better than Thriller by critics, fans and the general music buying public. Take this for example... 1) Unbreakable 2) Break of Dawn 3) Heaven Can Wait 4) You Rock My World 5) Butterflies 6) Speechless 7) 2000 Watts 8) Don't Walk Away 9) Whatever Happens ^ That would make for a very good album. But then if you add in some of the unreleased treasure from the Invincible sessions, and B-sides from the Invincible singles, you could come up with something like this... 1) Unbreakable 2) Break of Dawn 3) Heaven Can Wait 4) You Rock My World 5) The Way You Love Me 6) Butterflies 7) Speechless 8) 2000 Watts 9) Beautiful Girl 10) Shout 11) Don't Walk Away 12) Whatever Happens ^ That is a perfect album IMO. [Edited 3/14/06 22:29pm] [Edited 3/14/06 22:30pm] I want what you are smoking...On the other hand, maybe you should sell it on the street...it seems pretty potent... [Edited 3/14/06 22:38pm] Do you get the feeling like me that many MJ fans have become so deluded. It's not about them prefering Bad and Dangerous to OTW, that's more to do with personal taste. It's the fact they truely believe that the success of Bad and Dangerous had nothing to do with Thriller or the fact that the hype surrounding the release of Bad and Dangerous was triple the hype that surround Thriller. It is also a well known fact that up to Dangerous, at least, MJ focus was to outsell Thriller, that's why Bad was his most popish album ever and with Dangerous it was so diverse(trying to be all things to all people) that it ended up sounding almost chaotic, IMO. The fact that many of MJ fans can't see these things(and it's not about them prefering Bad to Thriller, that's down to personal taste) tells me they were either too young to remember MJ pre-Bad or they only started to take interest in him in the last 18 yrs or so. Another thing, like MJ many MJ fans are so obsesse with record sales as if to say it's the record sales that make you a Great artist.!! | |
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