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Printableandyman91 said: I totally agree with you. His tone is a bit thin for my liking. His fast runs are a bit unclear. I've never thought of Prince as a particularly innovative lead guitarist. He can't just hit one note like Stevie Ray, Clapton, Jimi, and you know it's him in an instant. He lacks the technique of Steve Vai, Eddie Van Halen. He plays decent melodic solos, though.
Love his rhythm playing, though--like the acoustic part of the Musicology tour. Of course he's very good at lead, too. Therein lies the genius of Prince. He's very good at EVERYTHING! And he makes it all look easy. He actually seemed to have a cleaner lead tone during many of the solos on the tour. Played some good stuff. I wonder if he's still using the Mesa Heartbreakers. What a great amp. tA  Tribal Disorder
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CinisterCee said: theAudience said: Y'all probably think i've gone the wackonaut route so to this post I shall put an end... 
 Pretty much. Mister, you're this close to being 
:manhug: 
tA Tribal Disorder
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blackguitaristz said: theAudience said: OK, i'll play the contrarian to a small degree.
First off, I dig Prince as a performer. He one of the few visible artists that understands SHOWTIME. I really dig his rhythm guitar playing. However i've never been a big fan of his lead guitar playing. And it's mostly because I don't dig his lead tone. It's much too processed for my taste. The other thing is his vibrato is much too manic for me. But that's just my personal preference. Maybe I can describe this a bit better. Stax really touched on it earlier. When I listen to B.B., early Buddy Guy, Albert King, Jeff Beck and even early Clapton I can feel the relationship between their fingers and the strings of the guitar. The sound Hendrix gets during Voodoo Chile is a classic example of what i'm talking about. A clean, clear, BIG tone. And he maintains it even when he kicks it up a notch for his solo. Echoplex and all. Allan Holdsworth has killer lead tone. It sings, it's big but retains clarity and precision. All the cats i've mentioned (maybe excluding studio Hendrix) also tend to use effects sparingly if at all. With Prince I tend to hear the effects more than the fingers/instrument relationship I alluded to. The tune (Fury?) and the performance was very cool. One other thing i'll mention that was a bit strange was the absence of any band presence. These guys were pretty much in the dark during that particular tune. If Morris Hayes hadn't told me he was doing the gig I never would have known who was playing keys. The girls were cool but the band is one of the visual elements I expect with a Prince performance. Y'all probably think i've gone the wackonaut route so to this post I shall put an end...
tA Tribal Disorder
http://www.soundclick.com...dID=182431 EXCELLENT post, Aud. Don't get me wrong, tone-wise, yeah, P's sound isn't the classic "authenic" and pure sound. I DEFINATELY agree withcha. His late 70's, early 80's sound was the closest he ever got to that sound. Right. Starting about 1985 his tone changed. Through PR he had a more generic tone, but a more attractive tone to me. Maybe he was going for a more signature sound, but I prefer Computer Blue & Lady Cab Driver's lead sounds to Rave Un2's. Anyone notice he wasn't wireless? He used the classic 70's curly cord and a SM58 with a cord as well. His guitar was fairly 80's with the string lock and micro tuners on the bridge. I wonder if that's a production model. I don't think I've ever seen a Strat with that pickup configuration. It's the same as the Cloud guitar, more or less. Check this song out at:
http://www.soundclick.com...tmusic.htm | |
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andyman91 said: Right. Starting about 1985 his tone changed. Through PR he had a more generic tone, but a more attractive tone to me. Maybe he was going for a more signature sound, but I prefer Computer Blue & Lady Cab Driver's lead sounds to Rave Un2's.
Anyone notice he wasn't wireless? He used the classic 70's curly cord and a SM58 with a cord as well. His guitar was fairly 80's with the string lock and micro tuners on the bridge. I wonder if that's a production model. I don't think I've ever seen a Strat with that pickup configuration. It's the same as the Cloud guitar, more or less. Great point. I meant to bring that up. 
That's one reason why he'll never get one of those classic Hendrix sounds. You gotta have that middle single coil pickup for that "in between" tone. tA Tribal Disorder
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theAudience said: andyman91 said: Right. Starting about 1985 his tone changed. Through PR he had a more generic tone, but a more attractive tone to me. Maybe he was going for a more signature sound, but I prefer Computer Blue & Lady Cab Driver's lead sounds to Rave Un2's.
Anyone notice he wasn't wireless? He used the classic 70's curly cord and a SM58 with a cord as well. His guitar was fairly 80's with the string lock and micro tuners on the bridge. I wonder if that's a production model. I don't think I've ever seen a Strat with that pickup configuration. It's the same as the Cloud guitar, more or less. Great point. I meant to bring that up.
That's one reason why he'll never get one of those classic Hendrix sounds. You gotta have that middle single coil pickup for that "in between" tone. tA Tribal Disorder
http://www.soundclick.com...dID=182431 Aaaah yeah. This is the kind of shit I strive for in my threads. Many times, my threads are basically what I call, ghost threads. Meaning the o.g. topic is basically a FRONT for things to go much deeper. Like say for example, the topic equals the music. So there is an underlining thing there which allows one to just go off with a Hendrix/Bootsy type Munchies For Your Love solo. The solo represents freedom to discuss and perhaps UNLOCK some passages to the skull! THIS is where I'm at at ALL TIMES! SynthiaRose said "I'm in love with blackguitaristz. Especially when he talks about Hendrix."
nammie "What BGZ says I believe. I have the biggest crush on him." http://ccoshea19.googlepa...ssanctuary http://ccoshea19.googlepages.com | |
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Some folks are born with it, some aren't. That has ALWAYS been my arguement regarding the Prince vs. Jesse thing. As far as showmanship in his playing, P wins that. P has more FLASH. Flash in the way he bends his notes, the runs he uses, WHERE he places them. He took the flashiest element in Jimi's playing and went to town with it. Which is cool, to a degree. What one ends up sacrificing is SUBSTANCE. When one thinks of Hendrix, Stevie Ray, (which is basically Hendrix), Santana and blues guitarists, you're talking about TONE. I feel P is less concerned with tone and more hyped on Flash. Jesse IS a guitarist. Not a cat that can play several instruments well. That's P. So Jesse is coming from a more "real" place. Tone is crucial to what Jesse does. Although he too is heavily influenced by Jimi. But he leans towards Jimi's more bluesy/rock side ala "Bold As Love". P is all "Foxy Lady" and "Star Spangled Banner". Like I mentioned before, Jimi's thing was so wide that cats could take a 1/4 of what Jimi did and make a whole career off of it. P's been in the game a LONG ASS time. He's been through different stages, sound wise. Where he is now and the past few years, he seems to be more at peace with where he is as a guitarist. I find that I'm more akin to Jimi and a younger P and ( early 80's) and Eddie Hazel in the sense that I draw from rage (rage = joy, pain and beauty) and place it dead center in my playing. Jimi always drew from something, so therefore u ALWAYS got emotion. Carlos is very similar in that aspect. That's why folks respond to them. SynthiaRose said "I'm in love with blackguitaristz. Especially when he talks about Hendrix."
nammie "What BGZ says I believe. I have the biggest crush on him." http://ccoshea19.googlepa...ssanctuary http://ccoshea19.googlepages.com | |
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Let me ask you, what exactly you mean by "sound" or "tone"? As I understand it (as in pick-ups, guitar models, distortion sounds...), I don't know why it'd be so important? | |
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calldapplwondery83 said: Let me ask you, what exactly you mean by "sound" or "tone"? As I understand it (as in pick-ups, guitar models, distortion sounds...), I don't know why it'd be so important?
It's crucial, my friend. I mean sound as in the things u mentioned PLUS things like feel. That's a huge part of your "SOUND". It's spiritual. U could pick up Jimi's guitar right after HE just played it. What do u think it's going to sound like? Not Jimi, that's for sure. SynthiaRose said "I'm in love with blackguitaristz. Especially when he talks about Hendrix."
nammie "What BGZ says I believe. I have the biggest crush on him." http://ccoshea19.googlepa...ssanctuary http://ccoshea19.googlepages.com | |
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blackguitaristz said: U could pick up Jimi's guitar right after HE just played it. What do u think it's going to sound like? Not Jimi, that's for sure.
Me? I'd whoop his ass! ...uhm, well, ok, not quite!
BTW, great thread, again. Keep 'em coming! | |
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calldapplwondery83 said: Let me ask you, what exactly you mean by "sound" or "tone"? As I understand it (as in pick-ups, guitar models, distortion sounds...), I don't know why it'd be so important?
It's kind of like the voice of the instrument. Stevie Ray Vaughn, to me, had maybe the greatest tone of anyone. He could hit one note, and with the combination of his playing style and his equipment--thick strings, specially wound pickups, the right amp, the right effects (or lack of effects), he had the Pavarotti of electric guitar. The most beautiful tone you've ever heard. Prince's playing is very good, but his distorted leads--Alphabet St. for example--are a bit thin & unnatural sounding to me, probably because of the effects, I'm thinking. Check this song out at:
http://www.soundclick.com...tmusic.htm | |
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A question for blackguitarist:
Would you say that Prince has his own unique guitar sound? Or do you think it's mostly derivative? PS: I think "Fury" kicked mucho ass-o  [Edited 2/7/06 15:44pm] "I'll be the first one to admit that I am many things, but one thing I am not is ungrateful...thank you..." - Prince | |
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Brutha B..Now wasn't I right about the crowd coming in? (lol) Great thread! Prince does play with a lot of rack effects and stompboxes but I always loved that about him. On the heavy metal music boards, his SNL peformance is being praised by everyone over there..I think so far I've watched the clip a total of 20 times already (lol).. His tone was a little "metallic" on SNL but it was still cool. And although I think his "Floyd Rose" playing was cool, I actually like his own vibrato instead of the whammy bar. | |
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calldapplwondery83 said: blackguitaristz said: U could pick up Jimi's guitar right after HE just played it. What do u think it's going to sound like? Not Jimi, that's for sure.
Me? I'd whoop his ass! ...uhm, well, ok, not quite!
BTW, great thread, again. Keep 'em coming! No, no no. All I meant by that was ANYONE who picked up Hendrix's axe or even someone like u or me. If I was to pick up your guitar after u just played, I'm not going to sound like u. I'm going to sound like me and visa versa. That's all. And thank u! SynthiaRose said "I'm in love with blackguitaristz. Especially when he talks about Hendrix."
nammie "What BGZ says I believe. I have the biggest crush on him." http://ccoshea19.googlepa...ssanctuary http://ccoshea19.googlepages.com | |
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WaterUdrink said: A question for blackguitarist:
Would you say that Prince has his own unique guitar sound? Or do you think it's mostly derivative? PS: I think "Fury" kicked mucho ass-o
[Edited 2/7/06 15:44pm] I know you didn't ask me, but I think Prince has his own style & sound, it's just not as groundbreaking or unique as the all time greats. Check this song out at:
http://www.soundclick.com...tmusic.htm | |
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blackguitaristz said: Some folks are born with it, some aren't. That has ALWAYS been my arguement regarding the Prince vs. Jesse thing. As far as showmanship in his playing, P wins that. P has more FLASH. Flash in the way he bends his notes, the runs he uses, WHERE he places them. He took the flashiest element in Jimi's playing and went to town with it. Which is cool, to a degree. What one ends up sacrificing is SUBSTANCE. When one thinks of Hendrix, Stevie Ray, (which is basically Hendrix), Santana and blues guitarists, you're talking about TONE. I feel P is less concerned with tone and more hyped on Flash. Jesse IS a guitarist. Not a cat that can play several instruments well. That's P. So Jesse is coming from a more "real" place. Tone is crucial to what Jesse does. Although he too is heavily influenced by Jimi. But he leans towards Jimi's more bluesy/rock side ala "Bold As Love". P is all "Foxy Lady" and "Star Spangled Banner". Like I mentioned before, Jimi's thing was so wide that cats could take a 1/4 of what Jimi did and make a whole career off of it. P's been in the game a LONG ASS time. He's been through different stages, sound wise. Where he is now and the past few years, he seems to be more at peace with where he is as a guitarist. I find that I'm more akin to Jimi and a younger P and ( early 80's) and Eddie Hazel in the sense that I draw from rage (rage = joy, pain and
beauty) and place it dead center in my playing. Jimi always drew from something, so therefore u ALWAYS got emotion. Carlos is very similar in that aspect. That's why folks respond to them. That's another a good point, bz! That whole emotional, blues feel...The difference between a Jean Paul Bourelly and a Vernon Reid; in King Crimson, its the difference between Adrian Belew and a Robert Fripp -- they're all good players, but Bourelly and Belew will turn and hit you with something from the gut; Reid and Fripp are much more technical... and while you still hear the Santana influence in P, ...Santana still has more of that raw emotional feel....but then some folks like the technical thing... like you say, P just has this overall talent thats untouchable.... funny, for some reason this overall talent thing made me think of Pat Metheny. Pat is probably in my top 10 favorite artists...but in a list of favorite guitarists, I'm not sure he would even make my top 25...It's funny, I think of him as a composer first, and a guitarist second...and that's what makes him one of my top artists, rather than his actual playing, which is great.. that's just my take anway... Now having said all that, I gotta go run and watch 'Fury' again,
... [Edited 2/7/06 16:53pm] " I've got six things on my mind --you're no longer one of them." - Paddy McAloon, Prefab Sprout | |
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Here's a cat with a lot of feel/tone; in fact, Carlos Santana once described his tone as "earthy". BG, u know I had to mention this cat http://www.myspace.com/ericgales  My author page: https://www.amazon.com/au...eretttruth | |
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JesseDezz said: Here's a cat with a lot of feel/tone; in fact, Carlos Santana once described his tone as "earthy". BG, u know I had to mention this cat http://www.myspace.com/ericgales
Yes! Eric is cold! SynthiaRose said "I'm in love with blackguitaristz. Especially when he talks about Hendrix."
nammie "What BGZ says I believe. I have the biggest crush on him." http://ccoshea19.googlepa...ssanctuary http://ccoshea19.googlepages.com | |
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I agree with t/A and Blackguitarist. I'm just glad to see him playing that thing, people I watched it with were like "Prince plays guitar?"
This thread is missing something huge though, the link. http://www.youtube.com/v/hospswwC74k | |
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theAudience said: :manhug:
 The Normal Whores Club | |
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Wow! Cool thread! Nice healthy dicussion compared to some of the more recent threads regarding Prince's guitarwork.
I hang out regularly at Harmony-Central where the topic of Prince's SNL performance has created a bit of a buzz on the electric guitar forum. Much to my suprise no haters had posted (at least the last time I checked) This is a really good sign. I guess there are a lot of folks that were oblivious to the fact that Prince is a very good guitarist. As far as his tone is concerned, in the many clips I've seen there just wasn't a consistantly good guitar tone. Prince isn't unique in that area. I imagine it can be difficult to get your tone happening night after night in different venues through out the course of a big tour. I haven't really dug Prince's (recorded) lead tone since his Purple Rain era. Too tweaked out with processing. I'm really glad to see that he's finally started to get more recognition for his playing ability out side of his fan base. Just don't give him another cover story in any of the guitar rags....they always turn out to be some sort of retread as he's never done a legit interview or offered any real insight into his music or playing....IMOHO. BTW, JesseDezz, thanks for Eric Gales link. I was wondering when he might put out something new. It's been..what 5 years since his last CD? Wow, Shrapnel has a new Blues label? I know that they were pushing a sort of shred blues thing some years back. (Shrapnel L.A. Blues Authority) -KSTRAT- [Edited 2/8/06 9:51am] [Edited 2/8/06 9:59am] [Edited 2/8/06 10:02am] [Edited 2/8/06 13:31pm] [Edited 2/8/06 13:35pm] [Edited 2/8/06 13:39pm] |
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Just remember guys, the choice of guitars and sound can bea tough one:
 | |
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I loved the fact that the band was almost invisible. Musicology was very muc about the band so I'm hoping 3121 will be more about P. The guitar was amazing and it was great to hear a song that featured that kind of playing. I can't remember the last time I heard him do a song like that. Even my mom was amazed. | |
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SPYZFAN1 said: Brutha B..Now wasn't I right about the crowd coming in? (lol) Great thread! Prince does play with a lot of rack effects and stompboxes but I always loved that about him. On the heavy metal music boards, his SNL peformance is being praised by everyone over there..I think so far I've watched the clip a total of 20 times already (lol).. His tone was a little "metallic" on SNL but it was still cool. And although I think his "Floyd Rose" playing was cool, I actually like his own vibrato instead of the whammy bar.
I totally agree with u, Spyz. I thought his use of the whammy was somewhat awkward. It came off like he just started fucking with it. Actually, I was surprised that he was using it. But yeah, I've always dug his own vibrato. Yeah, folks have started chiming in. I had to bait em'! SynthiaRose said "I'm in love with blackguitaristz. Especially when he talks about Hendrix."
nammie "What BGZ says I believe. I have the biggest crush on him." http://ccoshea19.googlepa...ssanctuary http://ccoshea19.googlepages.com | |
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What's up with his whammy? I think he uses it very "aggressively" but "awkward"? | |
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calldapplwondery83 said: What's up with his whammy? I think he uses it very "aggressively" but "awkward"?
I don't think he's used it very much. None of his usual guitars have had one. Check this song out at:
http://www.soundclick.com...tmusic.htm | |
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kstrat said: folks that were oblivous to the fact that Prince is a very good guitarist.
As far as his tone is concerned, in the many clips I've seen there just wasn't a consistantly good guitar tone. Prince isn't unique in that area. I imagine it can be difficult to get your tone happening night after night in different venues through out the course of a big tour. I haven't really dug Prince's (recorded) lead tone since his Purple Rain era. Too tweaked out with processing. I don't think the tone was bad, only non-Hendrix sounding. Processed tones have their place in rock and I thought his tone was effective on SNL. I quite liked it, in fact.  a psychotic is someone who just figured out what's going on | |
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paligap said: The difference between a Jean Paul Bourelly and a Vernon Reid; in King Crimson, its the difference between Adrian Belew and a Robert Fripp -- they're all good players, but Bourelly and Belew will turn and hit you with something from the gut; Reid and Fripp are much more technical...
and while you still hear the Santana influence in P, ...Santana still has more of that raw emotional feel....but then some folks like the technical thing... like you say, P just has this overall talent thats untouchable.... funny, for some reason this overall talent thing made me think of Pat Metheny. Pat is probably in my top 10 favorite artists...but in a list of favorite guitarists, I'm not sure he would even make my top 25...It's funny, I think of him as a composer first, and a guitarist second...and that's what makes him one of my top artists, rather than his actual playing, which is great.. that's just my take anway... Very good points and and I totally get your take on Metheny. I've always liked his playing. Instead of "showin' out" solos he plays melodies that become another "section" of the composition. Jaco still gets me to this day. I always use that CD on long flights. tA Tribal Disorder
http://www.soundclick.com...dID=182431 "Ya see, we're not interested in what you know...but what you are willing to learn. C'mon y'all." | |
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theAudience said: paligap said: The difference between a Jean Paul Bourelly and a Vernon Reid; in King Crimson, its the difference between Adrian Belew and a Robert Fripp -- they're all good players, but Bourelly and Belew will turn and hit you with something from the gut; Reid and Fripp are much more technical...
and while you still hear the Santana influence in P, ...Santana still has more of that raw emotional feel....but then some folks like the technical thing... like you say, P just has this overall talent thats untouchable.... funny, for some reason this overall talent thing made me think of Pat Metheny. Pat is probably in my top 10 favorite artists...but in a list of favorite guitarists, I'm not sure he would even make my top 25...It's funny, I think of him as a composer first, and a guitarist second...and that's what makes him one of my top artists, rather than his actual playing, which is great.. that's just my take anway... Very good points and and I totally get your take on Metheny. I've always liked his playing. Instead of "showin' out" solos he plays melodies that become another "section" of the composition. Jaco still gets me to this day. I always use that CD on long flights. tA Tribal Disorder
http://www.soundclick.com...dID=182431 I have to try Metheny again. So many people I respect love him. Check this song out at:
http://www.soundclick.com...tmusic.htm | |
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andyman91 said: I have to try Metheny again.
Definitely go for it.
tA Tribal Disorder
http://www.soundclick.com...dID=182431 "Ya see, we're not interested in what you know...but what you are willing to learn. C'mon y'all." | |
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theAudience said: paligap said: The difference between a Jean Paul Bourelly and a Vernon Reid; in King Crimson, its the difference between Adrian Belew and a Robert Fripp -- they're all good players, but Bourelly and Belew will turn and hit you with something from the gut; Reid and Fripp are much more technical...
and while you still hear the Santana influence in P, ...Santana still has more of that raw emotional feel....but then some folks like the technical thing... like you say, P just has this overall talent thats untouchable.... funny, for some reason this overall talent thing made me think of Pat Metheny. Pat is probably in my top 10 favorite artists...but in a list of favorite guitarists, I'm not sure he would even make my top 25...It's funny, I think of him as a composer first, and a guitarist second...and that's what makes him one of my top artists, rather than his actual playing, which is great.. that's just my take anway... Very good points and and I totally get your take on Metheny. I've always liked his playing. Instead of "showin' out" solos he plays melodies that become another "section" of the composition. Jaco still gets me to this day. I always use that CD on long flights.  Yeah, That's it, exactly! With the group recordings, The solo is never more important than the composition; it's really just another part of the piece...
.... " I've got six things on my mind --you're no longer one of them." - Paddy McAloon, Prefab Sprout | |
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