mynameisnotsusan said:

Please explain to me further your thoughts on Michael's, "Jesus complex."
I'm very interested in hearing this, seeing as I love people's thoughts on Michael.

jasonstar said:[quote]

mynameisnotsusan said:

3 words. Heal The World.

I've pulled the album out and I'm listening to it as I type for the first time in at least 5 years and it's more listenable than I remember...until I hit Heal The World. Thought it was cheesy then and it still is

If you take off Heal The World, Will You Be There, and maybe Gone Too Soon, it's not so bad. I see these songs as his Disney phase which he's never quite escaped from since. He's wearing his white shirt and striking his christ poses for the first time ('Will You Be There' video comes to mind).

BTW I have an autographed framed poster of the album cover so I shouldn't be slagging it off

I think Nirvana and the entire grunge movement had a lot to do with his sales too. The charges were a part of it but the change in the climate of the music at the time also contributed.

mynameisnotsusan said:[quote]

jasonstar said:

So the downfall of Michael's Dangerous album was it had too many positive songs?

mynameisnotsusan said:[quote]

jasonstar said:

Ahh.....the Dangerous cover is the best album cover iver ever seen

Krytonite said:

It shouldn't be a criticism that he was trying to use his music to bring about positive change but the songs have to work. I think Keep The Faith succeeds more than those other songs which are not so much 'positive' as overblown, pretentious, sickly sweet and cloying, (much like his liner note 'poetry')
[Edited 1/21/06 22:35pm]

Dangerous was a good album but Nirvana's Nevermind was much better and rightly deserved to topple it.

jasonstar said:

No....

I actually loved the Dangerous era. MJ was on top of the world still, causing controversy, and was really mysterious. It was fun listening to the lyrics in the tracks on Dangerous and trying to find out what MJ was talking about.

And I love the album, his last great work IMHO.

After the 1993 allegations, it all went downhill for me.

CinisterCee said:

That's sinful

jayaredee said:

can someone please explain to me whats so wrong with 'history'? its my favourite album of his and whenever i listen to it there are so many great tracks, i just wonder why people call that a bad album? i judge albums on the number of quality songs not on if hes singing 'angrily' or pulling too many stunts, so dont use that as the answer becuase thats a stupid reason not to like an album. explain it to me in terms of songs. most people here love dangerous, and history in terms of style wasnt much of a change from that, so i dont get it. i think the songs were just as great, actually, even better.


'they dont care about us', 'earth song' , 'tabloid junkie', 'you are not alone', '2 bad', 'money', 'scream', 'history', 'stranger in moscow', 'litle susie', are all great songs, and 'smile' is nice to listen to once in a while. 'childhood' i can understand the hate but i think its alright in small doses. the only songs i dont like are 'this time around', 'd.s' and 'come together' (although most here like that song).

i can understand people hating 'invincible', but ive never understood it for 'history'
[Edited 1/22/06 4:26am]

hellomoto said:

It's called opinion.....

My problem was that the album focuses on how the world is after him and he's just a lonely man who never had a childhood.
The whole package reeks.

Anyway i don't enjoy it, kudos to those who do.

jayaredee said:

no, i mean i get what you mean, but its more than that. i usually can understand when i like something and everyone else thinks opposite. im good at seeing others points, such as their hate for invincible even though i mildly like it. and most things to do with michael i understand why they would think the opposite of me, but not this one.

hellomoto said:

Again, i say opinion. I don't understand people who don't like pizza but they exist.

And i answered why in my post.

"the world hates me, i am peter pan"
This is my issue
[Edited 1/22/06 4:34am]

jayaredee said:

thats what i mean though, i think thats a lame reason to not like an album, im talking about the actual songs the music the melody. i guess im the only one that judges good albums on those things these days.

hellomoto said:

the only one eh?

personally, i'll challenge that obviously bunk statement... i LIKE nearly everyone MJ album including History...

my problem with MJ is different though... i'm still not sure about his personal life... but i'm trying to look past that because his music is still fabulously inspirational

wasn't dangerous going back and forth with diamonds and pearls? i remember that was like the last time both of them were putting singles on the pop and r&b charts (top 5 too) at the same time. they both started with controversial videos (black and white and that whole angry panther thingy, gett off with it caligula references)...and no, it was nowhere as big as the thriller hype was--not even close. i didn't see too many people wearing that nasty yellow sequin blose MJ wore in remember the time

mrDespues said:

your not meant to take that last statement literally, its just something you say when you dont know anyone elses opinion.

meltwithu said:

but, damn if I didn't want that white cast he wore.

I need to find out where Usher got his.

lilgish said:

i saw that blouse at the RRHOF...up close it looks really cheap--like something you would see at tj maxx

lilgish said:

and some people try and say usher doesnt copy michael. this is blatant.

meltwithu said:

hellomoto said:

It's a good enough reason for me. There's nothing great about the music without the lyrics on top of it besides maybe Little Susie.
And MJ's a pop star, the lyrics are always important to his work, don't kid yourself. You're making him out to be some masterful musician.

I think History is crap. Live with it.

jayaredee said:

CinisterCee said:

even if the child abuse allegations would not have happened there is no way dangerous would have outsold thriller.has anything after purple rain outsold purple rain?????no and never will.as far as mass commercial success goes thriller and purple rain will b these 2 artists albums they will always b remembered 4.thats my own personal...

hellomoto said:

Its pretty lame, i could care less about the lyrics or about his personal life. If the beat, melody, singing is all good i dont really give two shits.

god double post again
[Edited 1/22/06 17:11pm]

Dangerous sold 32 million and is believed to have been on its way to outsell Thriller. Let's look at what stunted its sales:

1) In 1993, ofcourse, Michael Jackson was accused of child molestation. How did this stunt his sales?
i) He lost a lot of popularity and a lot of his fan base
ii) He cancelled the US leg of the Dangerous tour, which could've boosted the sales of the Dangerous album. When he toured Europe is sho nuff boosted the sales over there. The same would go for the US.

2) The final single was supposed to be the title track, but was cancelled. I'm not sure if it had anything to do with the allegations, or if it just got cancelled. Another single and kick ass video wouldv'e also boosted the sales of Dangerous.

3) In 2001, when the Special Edition CD's of Off The Wall, Thriller, Bad and Dangerous were brought out, they all had bonus tracks except Dangerous. Alot of people would've allready had Dangerous, and the only thing that would've made them buy the Special Edition is if it actually was a Special Edition, but all it was, was a supposed "Remastered" version of the album, although I swear every track sounds the same as it did in 1991, the same sound quality and everything. If there were bonus tracks, it could've boosted the sales of Dangerous SE.

So with a completed Dangerous tour, another single and video release, and bonus tracks on the Special Edition re-release could've have boosted the sales to over 40 million, nearly 50 million. Not as much as Thriller, but I dare say if it got the kind of agulation Thriller got, it would be up to or over 60 million by now. There were alot of factors but in the end, you can't change HIStory.

The simple truth is Dangerous is a far better album than Thriller, but Thriller sold over 20 million more copies than Dangerous.

If you're interested, list of Michael Jackson's best-selling albums:

(Motown albums are official figures as of 1990. Epic albums are current best estimates. Excludes box sets and the likes.)

1) Thriller - 60 million
2) HIStory - 36 million
3) Dangerous - 32 million
4) Bad - 30 million
5) Off The Wall - 20 million
6) Invincible - 11 million
7) Blood on the Dance Floor - 7 million
8) Number Ones - 6.5 million
9) Ben - 4.5 million
10) Got To Be There - 4.2 million
11) Greatest Hits (HIStory disc 1) - 3 million
12) Best of Michael Jackson - 2.2 million
13) Essential MJ - 2 million
14) Music & Me - 2 million
15) Farewell My Summer Love - 2 million
16) Forever, Michael - 1.6 million
17) One Day In Your Life - 1.5 million

* Note that Epic gave HIStory a sales figure of 18 million (and because it is double disc set the figure is multipled by the number of discs, as happens with all multi-disc albums), but Michael gave a sales figure of 25 million in 1996 (he said in an interview, when asked if there will be any more singles from HIStory: "well were up to 25 million copies (that's copies not discs) allready and we'd like to keep that figure growing." So that would make HIStory's sales figure 50 million. Maybe Michael's over-estimating, and Epic is under-estimating or not keeping up to date, I don't know, but I can say it's more that 35 million (approx.) and less than 50 million (approx.), you can decide which figure you want to go with.
[Edited 1/23/06 4:22am]

DarlingDiana said:

So Off The Wall has sold nothing?